Australian Politics Forum - Caesar's version of Islam

Auggie

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #90 - May 28^th, 2017 at 10:24pm

Grendel wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:23pm:

Oh dear.... laughing at you own "joke" is probably not a good sign...

Why don't you go to Spirituality and have a look around there you might find something to give you pause to actually think.

Again.... No explaining, no discussion, no refutation of arguments.... Just jest...

Can't expect more from a simpleton.

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freediver

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #91 - May 28^th, 2017 at 10:27pm

From the other thread:

Auggie wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:22pm:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:16pm:

Are you saying that anyone who considers the Koran to be the literal word of God is an Islamic fundamentalist?

I consider anyone who believes that ALL of the Quran is God's word to be a fundamentalist.

So you think Gandalf is an Islamic fundamentalist?

You are the only person I know of who considers the Koran to be partly the word of God. Do I understand you correctly on that? But you also say you are an atheist. Or is the "partly true" bit only for others and not for yourself?

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freediver

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #92 - May 28^th, 2017 at 10:30pm

Auggie wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:28pm:

Grendel wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:27pm:

Auggie wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:22pm:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:16pm:

Are you saying that anyone who considers the Koran to be the literal word of God is an Islamic fundamentalist?

I consider anyone who believes that ALL of the Quran is God's word to be a fundamentalist.

So you believe all Muslims to be fundamentalists?

Not all Muslims believe that ALL of the Quran is the Word of God. I don't think Waleed Aly would believe this.

So not only is he inventing a new religion, he is also inventing followers.

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Grendel

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #93 - May 28^th, 2017 at 10:40pm

Auggie wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:24pm:

Grendel wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:23pm:

Oh dear.... laughing at you own "joke" is probably not a good sign...

Why don't you go to Spirituality and have a look around there you might find something to give you pause to actually think.

Again.... No explaining, no discussion, no refutation of arguments.... Just jest...

Can't expect more from a simpleton.

Oh dear.... really..

Why don't you take my advice before making spurious insults as you always do?

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Auggie

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #94 - May 28^th, 2017 at 10:41pm

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:27pm:

So you think Gandalf is an Islamic fundamentalist?

Gandalf doesn't believe that any of the Quran is the Word of God.

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:27pm:

You are the only person I know of who considers the Koran to be partly the word of God. Do I understand you correctly on that? But you also say you are an atheist. Or is the "partly true" bit only for others and not for yourself?

My 'partly true' bit is based on my personal interpretation of God's nature. In the Quran, there are verses which state that if you don't feed the poor, you'll go to Hell. That is something that God is more likely to say that saying 'and kill anyone who doesn't believe in God...'

As I said before, I am an Atheist in the sense that I don't believe in a Theistic God. I believe God means something else. It's about self-betterment.

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freediver

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #95 - May 28^th, 2017 at 10:58pm

So you choose which bits of the Koran really are the word of God based on your belief that God does not actually exist and it is really just a self help book?

And you want to help me by getting me to pay less attention to the political aspects of Islam in the hope that I will be swayed by the beautiful verses on how to wipe your arse and then I'll stop criticising Muslims?

You also believe that anyone who thinks Islam is the literal word of God is an Islamic fundamentalist, but that is OK because many Muslims share your view that the Koran was corrupted by Muhammad for political gain? And they are the true Muslims?

You kind of lost me on the "thou shalt not criticise religion" argument. You leapt from there to wiping it from people's memory. Does Nazism get the same treatment about not being criticised as a whole? Also, if the effect of the more benign sounding aspects is to lure people into believing the rape and pillage bits are the word of God, does that not make it all bad?

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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Caesar's version of Islam Reply #96 - May 28^th, 2017 at 10:58pm Quote: So not only is he inventing a new religion, he is also inventing followers. So, you think that Waleed Aly believes that the entire Quran is the Word of God?
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freediver

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #97 - May 28^th, 2017 at 11:00pm

Auggie wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

Quote:

So not only is he inventing a new religion, he is also inventing followers.

So, you think that Waleed Aly believes that the entire Quran is the Word of God?

I think people tend to take polarised views on it. It is all the word of God, or none of it is. Once you start taking a razor to the pages, you end up with confetti.

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Auggie

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #98 - May 28^th, 2017 at 11:07pm

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

So you choose which bits of the Koran really are the word of God based on your belief that God does not actually exist and it is really just a self help book?

I choose bits from any book. I even choose bits from Bible. Ignore Paul, read the Gospels. Bob's your Uncle.

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

the beautiful verses on how to wipe your arse

What about the beautiful verses of 'feeding the poor' or 'those who pileth up wealth will be condemned?' Didn't Jesus say the same thing?

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

You also believe that anyone who thinks Islam is the literal word of God is an Islamic fundamentalist

No, I said that anyone who believes that the entire Quran is the Word of God (and for that fact the Hadith is canonical) is a fundamentalist; just like if someone believes that the entire Bible is the Word of God (even though Paul wrote a lot of it by hand).

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

Muslims share your view that the Koran was corrupted by Muhammad for political gain?

Many don't believe that Muhammad corrupted the religion - that is my view only (sorry). The moderates would consider the Medinan verses to be contextual, or that the 'violent verses' are actually self-defence... etc. etc. My view is that if the Quran claims to be the Word of God, then it's very inconsistent in both form and format and is full of contradictions.

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

And they are the true Muslims?

It is not for me to say who is a true Muslim. I can only give my opinion about whom I believe to be a fundamentalist or moderate, and even then I don't have any authority to make that claim; it's just my opinion.

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

Does Nazism get the same treatment about not being criticised as a whole?

The question is: what fundamental claim or truth does Nazism make? That the German people are the superior race? That is a claim made by a human being, not God. The Quran claims it is the Word of God, and then presents contradictions and fallacies to the tee.

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Auggie

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #99 - May 28^th, 2017 at 11:08pm

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:00pm:

Auggie wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

Quote:

So not only is he inventing a new religion, he is also inventing followers.

So, you think that Waleed Aly believes that the entire Quran is the Word of God?

I think people tend to take polarised views on it. It is all the word of God, or none of it is. Once you start taking a razor to the pages, you end up with confetti.

That's an interesting analogy. In my case, I think it's ok to read parts of a scripture and not others. Not reading Paul doesn't diminish the power of Jesus's teachings.

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92261 Gender:	Re: Caesar's version of Islam Reply #100 - May 28^th, 2017 at 11:23pm freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:00pm: Auggie wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 10:58pm: Quote: So not only is he inventing a new religion, he is also inventing followers. So, you think that Waleed Aly believes that the entire Quran is the Word of God? I think people tend to take polarised views on it. Ah.
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Grendel

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #101 - May 29^th, 2017 at 10:33am

So Auggie how did you go?
I have given you 2 suggestions to increase your knowledge and understanding, have you bothered to check out either?
1/ The Indian Genocide by Muslims.
2/ The Topic re Islam in the Spirituality Forum.

How did you go...? Or are you still too busy ridiculing people that offer you advice and haven't bothered at all?

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freediver

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #102 - May 29^th, 2017 at 11:17am

Quote:

What about the beautiful verses of 'feeding the poor' or 'those who pileth up wealth will be condemned?' Didn't Jesus say the same thing?

Sure. What is your point? If Hitler dropped a few Jesus quotes would that make him a nice person?

Quote:

Many don't believe that Muhammad corrupted the religion - that is my view only (sorry). The moderates would consider the Medinan verses to be contextual, or that the 'violent verses' are actually self-defence... etc. etc.

But still the word of God.

Quote:

My view is that if the Quran claims to be the Word of God, then it's very inconsistent in both form and format and is full of contradictions.

Sounds like you are criticising religion.

Quote:

That's an interesting analogy. In my case, I think it's ok to read parts of a scripture and not others. Not reading Paul doesn't diminish the power of Jesus's teachings.

So what is the point of telling us which bits of the Koran to ignore? Are you trying to suggest there is something unique and important in the rest? Or are you merely suggesting that the verses that actually contribute to Islamic terrorism are somehow not relevant? And what happened to your argument about not criticising religion? Have you given up trying to help people?

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47358 At my desk.	Re: Caesar's version of Islam Reply #103 - May 29^th, 2017 at 6:58pm Has anyone here ever met a person who believes that part but not all of the Koran is the word of God? Aug appears to believe that, but he is actually an atheist and was only pretending for our benefit.
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moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: Caesar's version of Islam Reply #104 - May 29^th, 2017 at 8:44pm If any muslims held the view that certain parts of the qur'an were not the infallible unchangeable word of allah, they would be arguing for the vast array of hate torture and murder preached, to be thoroughly questioned. It's not happening, muslims and their apologists all lie and make excuses instead.
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