Australian Politics Forum - Meth addicts to have their children removed

Mistress Nicole

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Meth addicts to have their children removed
Apr 29^th, 2017 at 7:40am

This is fine, but I have two problems with it:

1) Ice addiction is endemic in child protection. This means a LOT of children will be removed. Where are we going to put them? There is a chronic shortage of foster families which sees children put into commercial care with rotational carers. An arrangement like this, for one child, costs the tax payer $250k per year; and
2) I see the government has scapegoated individual workers in order to avoid the elephant in the room: understaffed child protection services.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3980560/Ice-taking-parents-drug-tested-c...

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Valkie

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #1 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:25am

You have made excellent points.
But
We cannot leave the children with these addicts, it is bad for the child, bad for the public and sets the poor child up for a life of addition, following in their parents wake.

Ideally, we need to destroy the drug trade.
Ideally we need to make punishment for destroying lives something to fear.

Perhaps meth producers and distributors need to be PUT DOWN.

Drugs are destroying society.
But drugs are merely a symptom, a symptom of a society where the individual feels so bad that they look for an escape in chemical mind altering drugs.

What is the cure?
I wish I knew, but the soft touch and ridiculously low penalties for drug crime is not helping the situation.

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92362 Gender:	Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed Reply #2 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:30am Destroy the drug trade? Kids are on more amphetamines for ADHD than ever before. We need people hooked on speed. It helps them to behave in school, you see.
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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed Reply #3 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:35am the war on drugs has failed. Child protection services arent understaffed, they are overwhelmed.
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rhino

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #4 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:37am

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:30am:

Destroy the drug trade? Kids are on more amphetamines for ADHD than ever before. We need people hooked on speed.

It helps them to behave in school, you see.

You have previously spent a considerable amount of time arguing ludicrously that meth is not addictive. Your opinion is valueless on this subject.

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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20231 Gordon Gender:	Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed Reply #5 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:38am Drugs can never be controlled in a free society. Better to allow safer drugs to be used and crack down on the most harmful ones.
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rhino

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #6 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:04pm

Gordon wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:38am:

Drugs can never be controlled in a free society.

Better to allow safer drugs to be used and crack down on the most harmful ones.

yeah, actually thats the only real solution. And decriminalisation of all drugs under a certain amount. We need to clear the jails out of drug users.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #7 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:05pm

Anyone who takes on hard drugs is a total fool, given the knowledge and reports going the rounds about their effects. I grew up in the hippy generation, and was the only one in my school friends etc group who did not go down the dope trail... it now seems I am the only truly sane one among them, some, including my brother, lapsed into severe schizophrenia and a totally delusional world.

**sucks a beer later tonight** - yep those mind altering substances can be hell...

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #8 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

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In the fullness of time...

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tickleandrose

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #9 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:10pm

The community attitude have to change. For example, in our media, we consistently glorify criminals, and drug trades - just look at underbelly with their raunchy sex scenes and glorified violence. Where as, there is little to no time devoted to charity, humanity and scientific achievements. Look at this way, I can safely say that I see at least 1 person gun down on TV everyday, 1 sex scene every week, and 1 mention of noble price winners and achievements all year.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #10 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:06pm

rhino wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:37am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:30am:

Destroy the drug trade? Kids are on more amphetamines for ADHD than ever before. We need people hooked on speed.

It helps them to behave in school, you see.

You have previously spent a considerable amount of time arguing ludicrously that meth is not addictive. Your opinion is valueless on this subject.

Are you saying the kids are hooked, Rhino? I'm curious.

That's not what their doctors say, dear. Would you care to offer us some medical advice?

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #11 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

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« Last Edit: Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:20pm by Mattyfisk »

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10259 Gender:	Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed Reply #12 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 5:33pm Valkie wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:25am: But drugs are merely a symptom, a symptom of a society where the individual feels so bad that they look for an escape in chemical mind altering drugs. There's something in that. But then again, alcohol has a long history with European peoples.
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Valkie

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #13 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 5:48pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:05pm:

Anyone who takes on hard drugs is a total fool, given the knowledge and reports going the rounds about their effects. I grew up in the hippy generation, and was the only one in my school friends etc group who did not go down the dope trail... it now seems I am the only truly sane one among them, some, including my brother, lapsed into severe schizophrenia and a totally delusional world.

**sucks a beer later tonight** - yep those mind altering substances can be hell...

Exactly.
Stop the treatment, stop the pandering.

If you get found out taking drugs, you should be put in a cell to dry out.
When you have dried out you are released.

Every time, the same thing.
One of two things will happen.
1) you die, end of problem.
2) You realize that drying out is an extremely painful exercise and give them up for good.

Looking after moorons who take drugs is just plain wasteful.
Stop it now.
Death penalty for pushers and distributors.
Dry out for users.
Destruction for manufacturers.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #14 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 5:57pm

tickleandrose wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:10pm:

The community attitude have to change. For example, in our media, we consistently glorify criminals, and drug trades - just look at underbelly with their raunchy sex scenes and glorified violence. Where as, there is little to no time devoted to charity, humanity and scientific achievements. Look at this way, I can safely say that I see at least 1 person gun down on TV everyday, 1 sex scene every week, and 1 mention of noble price winners and achievements all year.

"If it bleeds, it leads".

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cods

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #15 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #16 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:13pm

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

He didn't say "harmless", cods.

He said "I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates".

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cods

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #17 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:28pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:13pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

He didn't say "harmless", cods.

He said "I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates".

yes of course you are correct however it says almost same thing....i mean how many years were we all smoking before they decided it was killing us???..

now our eating patterns are killing us but some folks think pot and opiates are ok...

with all due respect... how much research has gone in to that???.....if they can have a problem with your driving.....what does that say?????????? Roll Eyes

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #18 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:35pm

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:13pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

He didn't say "harmless", cods.

He said "I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates".

yes of course you are correct however it says almost same thing....i mean how many years were we all smoking before they decided it was killing us???..

now our eating patterns are killing us but some folks think pot and opiates are ok...

with all due respect... how much research has gone in to that???.....if they can have a problem with your driving.....what does that say?????????? Roll Eyes

There are no records of people overdosing on pot and dying.

The same can't be said for water, though.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #19 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:49pm

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

You don't remove children from functional parents who use drugs, dear. The majority of Ice users are the weekend party crowd.

In child protection, you remove children from parental abuse and/or neglect. Drugs only contribute to this. In themselves, they are not a problem - unlike, for example, driving under the influence. Do this, and you lose your license.

Most people use one drug or another at some point in their life, legal or not. This shouldn't disqualify you from being a parent.

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Gordon

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #20 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:58pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:49pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

You don't remove children from functional parents who use drugs, dear. The majority of Ice users are the weekend party crowd.

In child protection, you remove children from parental abuse and/or neglect. Drugs only contribute to this. In themselves, they are not a problem - unlike, for example, driving under the influence. Do this, and you lose your license.

Most people use one drug or another at some point in their life, legal or not. This shouldn't disqualify you from being a parent.

Maybe a system where one man could have 10 wives would be better. They can take shifts getting off their tit while the other mummies look after them.

Let's hope it happens, inshala

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92362 Gender:	Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed Reply #21 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:59pm All amphetamines do is speed up the nervous system, focus people's attention and decrease their appetite. Use lots of amphetamines for days or weeks, however, and it's a totally different story.
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Mattyfisk

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #22 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 7:10pm

Gordon wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:58pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:49pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

You don't remove children from functional parents who use drugs, dear. The majority of Ice users are the weekend party crowd.

In child protection, you remove children from parental abuse and/or neglect. Drugs only contribute to this. In themselves, they are not a problem - unlike, for example, driving under the influence. Do this, and you lose your license.

Most people use one drug or another at some point in their life, legal or not. This shouldn't disqualify you from being a parent.

Maybe a system where one man could have 10 wives would be better. They can take shifts getting off their tit while the other mummies look after them.

Let's hope it happens, inshala

This is how families and communities traditionally worked. My dad remembers a time, even in urban England, when mothers would watch out for other kids on the street. The mothers knew everybody's family's business, and kids were taken care of by communities.

The loss of communities has led to the need for child and family services. Once, extended families and communities would care for orphans, for example. Today, the state has taken on this role.

We've gone from big, church-run institutions (many full of abuse) to carefully-assessed foster families. Nuclear families. Our idea of what a family is has changed, along with gender roles and the role of the state.

Unfortunately, there's no simple way to turn things around.

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mantra

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #23 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:04pm

Gordon wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:38am:

Drugs can never be controlled in a free society.

Better to allow safer drugs to be used and crack down on the most harmful ones.

This is the only answer. The Greens have been denigrated for years because they advocate that some illegal drugs should be legalised and by that they mean - by prescription, similar to the methadone program which has saved many lives.

Maybe the chemists need to get working on an ice substitute.

The children of meth addicts haven't got a hope in hell of living a decent life and growing up to be productive citizens.

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cods

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #24 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:30pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:49pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

You don't remove children from functional parents who use drugs, dear. The majority of Ice users are the weekend party crowd.

In child protection, you remove children from parental abuse and/or neglect. Drugs only contribute to this. In themselves, they are not a problem - unlike, for example, driving under the influence. Do this, and you lose your license.

Most people use one drug or another at some point in their life, legal or not. This shouldn't disqualify you from being a parent.

well you seem very knowledgeable on the subject my knowledge is very limited.... so I have no choice but to believe you

but my concern is for the children..

because no matter how bad a parent is for the child to be taken away is extremely traumatic....at the time....
so it isnt and shouldnt be done lightly..

what do you mean my functional parents??? karmal...

from what we see today parents using drugs have no inhibitions and do not seem to carry a guilt complex....

how can you say drugs are harmless unless you are driving???

no one is suggesting anyone who experiments taking drugs should never be a parent...

its the ADDICTS that are the problem....

I dont want to see illegal drugs made legal but at the same time what we are doing is not working either ./.

so maybe a middle road somewhere....

so whats the plan then open drug houses for those wanting to experience the pleasures..

wonder what age they will start them at.. isnt it against the law to sell cigarettes/alcohol to kids....so will they have to wait until they are 18... which I cant see happening...although it could be worth a try...

I am lucky I dont see the drug scene I only read about it......but I have read about the neglect and babies being born addicted...this cant be good.

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rhino

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #25 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:30pm

mantra wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:04pm:

Gordon wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:38am:

Drugs can never be controlled in a free society.

Better to allow safer drugs to be used and crack down on the most harmful ones.

This is the only answer. The Greens have been denigrated for years because they advocate that some illegal drugs should be legalised and by that they mean - by prescription, similar to the methadone program which has saved many lives.

Maybe the chemists need to get working on an ice substitute.

The children of meth addicts haven't got a hope in hell of living a decent life and growing up to be productive citizens.

Methadone is just as addictive as heroin and more physically debilitating, the methadone program is a crock.

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Valkie

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #26 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:34pm

mantra wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:04pm:

Gordon wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:38am:

Drugs can never be controlled in a free society.

Better to allow safer drugs to be used and crack down on the most harmful ones.

This is the only answer. The Greens have been denigrated for years because they advocate that some illegal drugs should be legalised and by that they mean - by prescription, similar to the methadone program which has saved many lives.

Maybe the chemists need to get working on an ice substitute.

The children of meth addicts haven't got a hope in hell of living a decent life and growing up to be productive citizens.

NO

Death penalty for dealers and manufacturers

Compulsory drying out for users

All costs borne by the users, dealers and manufacturers.

I dont use drugs, WHY should I pay for others?

Seriously,
Why should I have to pay for other deadbeats to explore chemical pleasure and get hooked?

Dry them out without any substitute drugs, simply put them in a cell and leave them until they can walk out clean.
And charge them for the privilege.

I like chocolate, no one pays for that but me.
I like traveling, no one pays for me.
I like swimming, no one pays for me.

WHY should I pay for some FOOL to use drugs???????????

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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #27 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:39pm

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:30pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:49pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

You don't remove children from functional parents who use drugs, dear. The majority of Ice users are the weekend party crowd.

In child protection, you remove children from parental abuse and/or neglect. Drugs only contribute to this. In themselves, they are not a problem - unlike, for example, driving under the influence. Do this, and you lose your license.

Most people use one drug or another at some point in their life, legal or not. This shouldn't disqualify you from being a parent.

well you seem very knowledgeable on the subject my knowledge is very limited.... so I have no choice but to believe you

but my concern is for the children..

because no matter how bad a parent is for the child to be taken away is extremely traumatic....at the time....
so it isnt and shouldnt be done lightly..

what do you mean my functional parents??? karmal...

from what we see today parents using drugs have no inhibitions and do not seem to carry a guilt complex....

how can you say drugs are harmless unless you are driving???

no one is suggesting anyone who experiments taking drugs should never be a parent...

its the ADDICTS that are the problem....

I dont want to see illegal drugs made legal but at the same time what we are doing is not working either ./.

so maybe a middle road somewhere....

so whats the plan then open drug houses for those wanting to experience the pleasures..

wonder what age they will start them at.. isnt it against the law to sell cigarettes/alcohol to kids....so will they have to wait until they are 18... which I cant see happening...although it could be worth a try...

I am lucky I dont see the drug scene I only read about it......but I have read about the neglect and babies being born addicted...this cant be good.

By functional parents, I mean people who truly care for and love their kids. This isn't really about functionality at all, but compassion.

Some people, rich or poor, addicted or not, are just into themselves. They don't tend to make good parents.

Crazy parents, poor parents, drunken or addicted parents, they can still be good parents if they love their kids.

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mantra

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #28 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 8:55am

rhino wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:30pm:

Methadone is just as addictive as heroin and more physically debilitating, the methadone program is a crock.

When a junkie gets on the methadone program, I doubt anyone would give a stuff whether the drug is addictive or debilitating for the addict - it is better for everyone else who crosses paths with them. The crime rate decreases with every addict on methadone. The addict's life also improves because they're not constantly looking for their next hit or who they should steal from to pay for it.

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cods

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #29 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 9:08am

mantra wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 8:55am:

rhino wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:30pm:

Methadone is just as addictive as heroin and more physically debilitating, the methadone program is a crock.

When a junkie gets on the methadone program, I doubt anyone would give a stuff whether the drug is addictive or debilitating for the addict - it is better for everyone else who crosses paths with them. The crime rate decreases with every addict on methadone. The addict's life also improves because they're not constantly looking for their next hit or who they should steal from to pay for it.

yes I agree I have someone in the family who has just served 7 years for hold up to get drugs he at this point is coming good a few stumbles but is doing methadone.. its not the first time but we never give up hope..sadly his life is ruined we think he has mild brain damage from all the years... but he is doing his best at this stage...thankfully he isnt a parent..
and he is in a better place than doing heroin.

mantra I take a handful of drugs every day just because they are legal doesn t mean I am not addict because I am however I dont crave them in fact I would like to throw them out the window..lol.. but some of them make me easier to live with I am sure.....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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cods

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #30 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 9:14am

y functional parents, I mean people who truly care for and love their kids. This isn't really about functionality at all, but compassion.

Some people, rich or poor, addicted or not, are just into themselves. They don't tend to make good parents.

Crazy parents, poor parents, drunken or addicted parents, they can still be good parents if they love their kids.
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of course karnal you are correct I understand that.... in fact when I read about another baby/child killed b y their parent I could scream...why do these people have kids?????....but it is what it is...

we read one horror story after another today....

I do not know what the answer is..

I do believe when ever a dept becomes involved be it the police or DOCS....the parents by law should have to attend education classes....or in the case of drug addicts abuse classes.....for as long as it takes...

some form of showing at least they want to do better...like AA classes gambers annon..

there is nothing out there for how to be a decent parent.. it should be bloody compulsory

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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 28107 Gender:	Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed Reply #31 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 11:44am Oh my another Stolen Generation in the making. Followed by the law suits for compensation. By the time that happens there won't be enough Australians in employment to meet tax base requirements for the govt. to pay out. Onwards & upwards ... full steam ahead don't spare the horses.
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rhino

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #32 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 3:24pm

mantra wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 8:55am:

rhino wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:30pm:

Methadone is just as addictive as heroin and more physically debilitating, the methadone program is a crock.

When a junkie gets on the methadone program, I doubt anyone would give a stuff whether the drug is addictive or debilitating for the addict - it is better for everyone else who crosses paths with them.

In what way? They are still junkies who would steal off their grandmother to fund their habit, going on methadone does not stop junkies from taking other drugs and does nothing for the addiction.

Quote:

The crime rate decreases with every addict on methadone. The addict's life also improves because they're not constantly looking for their next hit or who they should steal from to pay for it.

Not true. See above comment. the methadone program is a crock designed to make it look as though there is help for junkies to cease their addiction. as i said, methadone does nothing to stop addiction as it is itself addictive. And junkies are well known to regurgitate their taxpayer funded $4 dose of methadone and proceed to sell it to help fund thier other addictions.

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #33 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 3:32pm

rhino wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 3:24pm:

mantra wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 8:55am:

rhino wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 8:30pm:

Methadone is just as addictive as heroin and more physically debilitating, the methadone program is a crock.

When a junkie gets on the methadone program, I doubt anyone would give a stuff whether the drug is addictive or debilitating for the addict - it is better for everyone else who crosses paths with them.

In what way? They are still junkies who would steal off their grandmother to fund their habit, going on methadone does not stop junkies from taking other drugs and does nothing for the addiction.

Quote:

The crime rate decreases with every addict on methadone. The addict's life also improves because they're not constantly looking for their next hit or who they should steal from to pay for it.

Not true. See above comment. the methadone program is a crock designed to make it look as though there is help for junkies to cease their addiction. as i said, methadone does nothing to stop addiction as it is itself addictive. And junkies are well known to regurgitate their taxpayer funded $4 dose of methadone and proceed to sell it to help fund thier other addictions.

All true.

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mantra

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #34 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 3:42pm

rhino wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 3:24pm:

Methadone is just as addictive as heroin and more physically debilitating, the methadone program is a crock.

I know that it's all those things Rhino. Like Cods - I have a family member who has been on the program for nearly 30 years, but the instant he got on it - he became trustworthy and responsible again. He's addicted to methadone, but his body has adapted to accommodate it.

Quote:

Quote:

The crime rate decreases with every addict on methadone. The addict's life also improves because they're not constantly looking for their next hit or who they should steal from to pay for it.

Not true. See above comment. the methadone program is a crock designed to make it look as though there is help for junkies to cease their addiction. as i said, methadone does nothing to stop addiction as it is itself addictive. And junkies are well known to regurgitate their taxpayer funded $4 dose of methadone and proceed to sell it to help fund thier other addictions.

Some of them do sell their methadone, but there are all sorts of people who use it to keep working and maintain a stable life. It's not just subsidised for the benefit of the no-hopers. Those who work pay tax. The small government subsidy is nothing compared to the cost of an increased crime rate, paramedic attendance, hospitalisation, imprisonment and foster care for their neglected kids.

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rhino

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #35 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 3:46pm

mantra wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 3:42pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 3:24pm:

Methadone is just as addictive as heroin and more physically debilitating, the methadone program is a crock.

I know that it's all those things Rhino. Like Cods - I have a family member who has been on the program for nearly 30 years, but the instant he got on it - he became trustworthy and responsible again. He's addicted to methadone, but his body has adapted to accommodate it.

prescribing heroin would have had a similar result, but without the rotten teeth and other side effects that come from long term methadone use.

Quote:

Some of them do sell their methadone, but there are all sorts of people who use it to keep working and maintain a stable life. It's not just subsidised for the benefit of the no-hopers. Those who work pay tax. The small government subsidy is nothing compared to the cost of an increased crime rate, paramedic attendance, hospitalisation, imprisonment and foster care for their neglected kids.

Nothing to do with methadone itself. Like I stated, prescribing heroin would have a similar effect. Methadone is just as if not more addictive than heroin, the positive results you are quoting have to do with the fact that the junkies daily dose is assured rather than being looked and bought for on the streets, there is nothing intrinsically better about methadone itself.

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #36 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 3:50pm

rhino wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 3:46pm:

prescribing heroin would have had a similar result, but without the rotten teeth and other side effects that come from long term methadone use.

The Greens are all for prescription heroin and it is definitely less harmful and cheaper than methadone, but the average voter doesn't want to see heroin become a legally prescribed drug. Look at the controversy over making marijuana legal even for medical purposes. As far as rotten teeth go - I think a heroin addict's teeth have usually deteriorated a long time before they go on a methadone program.

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #37 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 4:03pm

most of the legal pain killing drugs are just as lethal...when it comes to addiction...its a human fraility I am thinking... we find cures eventually for all our diseases....so it stand to reason there has to be something thats out of reach..

something some where where human become responsible for their own welfare..

look at STD.. since fining all sorts of meds to combat it.. no one cares anymore if they get it..

weve become our own worst enemy...

and eventually our system says nup that dont work anymore you need something stronger and so it goes on until we are so addicted.... we think its normal...

I think its high time we put children first no matter what... its ok for people to say oh yes but the home and family is whats important...these kids miss out on their childhood maybe we need to emphasise that more how important it is we give every child a childhood to remember..... not one that creates depression and suicidal thought..

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rhino

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #38 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 4:07pm

mantra wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 3:50pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 3:46pm:

prescribing heroin would have had a similar result, but without the rotten teeth and other side effects that come from long term methadone use.

The Greens are all for prescription heroin and it is definitely less harmful and cheaper than methadone, but the average voter doesn't want to see heroin become a legally prescribed drug. Look at the controversy over making marijuana legal even for medical purposes. As far as rotten teeth go - I think a heroin addict's teeth have usually deteriorated a long time before they go on a methadone program.

yes, its all about politics. heroin addicts teeth can be rotten due to lifestyle, methadone does rot teeth, it also has a host of side effects heroin does not. Methadone is one of the biggest con jobs ever perpetuated, pharma companies are making big bucks out of the con though. Methadone does nothing for addiction except perpetuate it.

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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Australian Legend Posts: 21743 Rockhampton, Q Gender:	Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed Reply #39 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 4:18pm Breaking Bad should be required viewing. As exaggerated as it is, it gives a good insight into the problems of drug abuse.
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Gnads

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #40 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:17pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:35pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:13pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

He didn't say "harmless", cods.

He said "I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates".

yes of course you are correct however it says almost same thing....i mean how many years were we all smoking before they decided it was killing us???..

now our eating patterns are killing us but some folks think pot and opiates are ok...

with all due respect... how much research has gone in to that???.....if they can have a problem with your driving.....what does that say?????????? Roll Eyes

There are no records of people overdosing on pot and dying.

The same can't be said for water, though.

Decades if not centuries of evidence/records of people overdosing or wasting away from Opiate abuse.

Heroine is an opiate ... no harm done there to the users, the families, children & the general public...... Roll Eyes

You have to be fargin joking. Angry

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #41 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:22pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:35pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:13pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

He didn't say "harmless", cods.

He said "I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates".

yes of course you are correct however it says almost same thing....i mean how many years were we all smoking before they decided it was killing us???..

now our eating patterns are killing us but some folks think pot and opiates are ok...

with all due respect... how much research has gone in to that???.....if they can have a problem with your driving.....what does that say?????????? Roll Eyes

There are no records of people overdosing on pot and dying.

The same can't be said for water, though.

Decades if not centuries of evidence/records of people overdosing or wasting away from Opiate abuse.

Heroine is an opiate ... no harm done there to the users, the families, children & the general public...... Roll Eyes

You have to be fargin joking. Angry

Jesus, you're a particularly thick one, aren't you?

I'll post what I said again - which was 100% correct - and then you see if you can figure out where you went so spectacularly wrong.

"There are no records of people overdosing on pot and dying.

"The same can't be said for water, though."

Let me know if you need a hint, Einstein.

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Gordon

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Australian Politics

Posts: 20231
Gordon
Gender: male

Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #42 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:41pm

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:13pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

He didn't say "harmless", cods.

He said "I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates".

yes of course you are correct however it says almost same thing....i mean how many years were we all smoking before they decided it was killing us???..

now our eating patterns are killing us but some folks think pot and opiates are ok...

with all due respect... how much research has gone in to that???.....if they can have a problem with your driving.....what does that say?????????? Roll Eyes

Opioids are a problem, long term use will mess the brain up.

Pot is about as harmless as a drug can be, particularly when it's grown by people who know what they're doing and get a good balance of THC and CBD.

I can't wait for my next USA holiday when I can go to a dispensary and get connoisseur grown edibles.

The stories you hear of people who smoke pot and sit around all day is mostly a correlation does not imply causation thing. They're probably people who would sit around being lazy anyway.

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Gnads

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Australian Politics

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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #43 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:49pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:22pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:35pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:13pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

He didn't say "harmless", cods.

He said "I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates".

yes of course you are correct however it says almost same thing....i mean how many years were we all smoking before they decided it was killing us???..

now our eating patterns are killing us but some folks think pot and opiates are ok...

with all due respect... how much research has gone in to that???.....if they can have a problem with your driving.....what does that say?????????? Roll Eyes

There are no records of people overdosing on pot and dying.

The same can't be said for water, though.

Decades if not centuries of evidence/records of people overdosing or wasting away from Opiate abuse.

Heroine is an opiate ... no harm done there to the users, the families, children & the general public...... Roll Eyes

You have to be fargin joking. Angry

Jesus, you're a particularly thick one, aren't you?

I'll post what I said again - which was 100% correct - and then you see if you can figure out where you went so spectacularly wrong.

"There are no records of people overdosing on pot and dying.

"The same can't be said for water, though."

Let me know if you need a hint, Einstein.

And the original comment was made about "pot & opiates".......

You just conveniently left out the opiates.

Yet besides your selective editing about pot & OD's & deaths ..... it is not harmless to chronic abusers.

So your genius quote is simply a ... durrrrrhh

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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greggerypeccary

Gold Member

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Australian Politics

Posts: 131547
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Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #44 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:50pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:49pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:22pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:35pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:13pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

He didn't say "harmless", cods.

He said "I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates".

yes of course you are correct however it says almost same thing....i mean how many years were we all smoking before they decided it was killing us???..

now our eating patterns are killing us but some folks think pot and opiates are ok...

with all due respect... how much research has gone in to that???.....if they can have a problem with your driving.....what does that say?????????? Roll Eyes

There are no records of people overdosing on pot and dying.

The same can't be said for water, though.

Decades if not centuries of evidence/records of people overdosing or wasting away from Opiate abuse.

Heroine is an opiate ... no harm done there to the users, the families, children & the general public...... Roll Eyes

You have to be fargin joking. Angry

Jesus, you're a particularly thick one, aren't you?

I'll post what I said again - which was 100% correct - and then you see if you can figure out where you went so spectacularly wrong.

"There are no records of people overdosing on pot and dying.

"The same can't be said for water, though."

Let me know if you need a hint, Einstein.

And the original comment was made about "pot & opiates".......

You just conveniently left out the opiates.

Yet besides your selective editing about pot & OD's & deaths ..... it is not harmless to chronic abusers.

So your genius quote is simply a ... durrrrrhh

Not my comment, doofus.

This is my comment:

"There are no records of people overdosing on pot and dying.

"The same can't be said for water, though."

Try to keep up, okay princess?

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Gnads

Gold Member

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Australian Politics

Posts: 28107
Gender: male

Re: Meth addicts to have their children removed
Reply #45 - Apr 30^th, 2017 at 6:27pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:50pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:49pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:22pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 30^th, 2017 at 5:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:35pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:13pm:

cods wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 6:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:13pm:

... wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

We need to keep our eyes on the goal here. Ice addicts dont usually force their kids to take ice. Theyre not ingesting anything harmful, so in efect the kids are just getting a lesson in self reliance.

Compare this to real insidious dangers like vegans, who actively work to deny their children the nutrients they need to thrive, while filling their bodies with toxic food substitutes.

Neglect vs active harm - its obvious which is the lesser of two evils.

It's not so much what the drug does, but what people do with it. The sleepless nights are the worst. The hoarding, the people coming and going, the constant arguments and parties and dramas, the lack of routine.

Amphetamines encourage all these things. We've all done it.

It's probably the worst drug for bringing up kids. Alcohol is next. I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates.

Amphetamines are inherently fake - fake happy moods, fake chatter, and after a few nights up, fake hallucinations and paranoia.

Kids on the other hand, are inherently authentic. They say what they think. They don't get caught up in ideologies or theories. They trust. They take things as they come.

It must be horrible as a kid watching a parent becoming so fake after a blast of ice, and then having to deal with their loud, relentless obsessions.

well this cookie hasnt .. smoking norm ciggies was my personal addiction...

I am not so sure about HARMLESS karmal surely anything with put in our bodies that doesnt imitate what your body already produces

is harmful....I like to think the first part of our bodies harmed is the brain....

but what would I know...but its what I tell anyone thats young why they shouldnt use anything like that unless they want brain damage.

karmal this thread is about removing children...from these homes......are you confident they would be safe with these... selfish parents..??

He didn't say "harmless", cods.

He said "I can't see much of a problem with pot or opiates".

yes of course you are correct however it says almost same thing....i mean how many years were we all smoking before they decided it was killing us???..

now our eating patterns are killing us but some folks think pot and opiates are ok...

with all due respect... how much research has gone in to that???.....if they can have a problem with your driving.....what does that say?????????? Roll Eyes

There are no records of people overdosing on pot and dying.

The same can't be said for water, though.

Decades if not centuries of evidence/records of people overdosing or wasting away from Opiate abuse.

Heroine is an opiate ... no harm done there to the users, the families, children & the general public...... Roll Eyes

You have to be fargin joking. Angry

Jesus, you're a particularly thick one, aren't you?

I'll post what I said again - which was 100% correct - and then you see if you can figure out where you went so spectacularly wrong.

"There are no records of people overdosing on pot and dying.

"The same can't be said for water, though."

Let me know if you need a hint, Einstein.

And the original comment was made about "pot & opiates".......

You just conveniently left out the opiates.

Yet besides your selective editing about pot & OD's & deaths ..... it is not harmless to chronic abusers.

So your genius quote is simply a ... durrrrrhh

Not my comment, doofus.

This is my comment:

"There are no records of people overdosing on pot and dying.

"The same can't be said for water, though."

Try to keep up, okay princess?

Yes a selectively edited post to remove opiates to try & make a point... that had no point & was a durrrrh..... doofus.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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