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7 young veterans have taken their lives (Read 3011 times)
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: 7 young veterans have taken their lives
Reply #45 - Apr 26th, 2017 at 10:20am
 
Gordon wrote on Apr 26th, 2017 at 9:38am:
I saw a doco that suggest special forces have lower rates of PTSD despite being in higher stress situations.

Probably due to better training and higher quality people.



Ummmmmm - the general consensus among Veterans is that SAS, for example, are pretty automatic PTSD.  The difference may be in the way they handle it.

As someone said, PTSD is insidious and it is simply not done to complain or to make a fuss about many things that may be obvious to others looking on.  I recall when the issue was being batted about coupla years ago, interviews with some young troopers, and many said they simply did not complain since to do so would lower their chances of another commitment to the conflict in Afghanistan, and they didn't want to let their mates down or themselves down.  You could see it in their eyes, though.

Men are like that, as we all should know.

Post Service Separation Disorder can hit anyone, even if they have not been in combat ... I'm still looking into it but not too many learned tracts about it around.

Imagine the position of those young men who would not complain during service, when they are suddenly set free into an entirely different world, in which order and  structure are generally lacking, and they are themselves viewed as some kind of outsider, and are often considered unemployable.

This is a US link:-

http://www.disabledveterans.org/2010/09/20/top-5-individual-unemployability-misc...
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Re: 7 young veterans have taken their lives
Reply #46 - Apr 26th, 2017 at 11:04am
 
Gordon wrote on Apr 26th, 2017 at 9:38am:
I saw a doco that suggest special forces have lower rates of PTSD despite being in higher stress situations.

Probably due to better training and higher quality people.



Partially, but an interesting finding about PTSD is that those who are more in control of their fate are much less likely to suffer from it.  That is, those with greater autonomy, such as higher ranks and special forces. 

The low-level grunts who have to do as theyre told, sit around base sweeping the floors and twiddling their thumbs, waiting for death to come aren't in control of their fate, and they are the ones who get struck. 

Quote:
Soldiers have profoundly little control on their environment and this is a fact made nakedly apparent to them every single day they are down range (and many they are not). Here are two passages from Sebastian Junger's War that evince this:

    The Navy study compared stress levels of the pilots [who have to land on tiny aircraft carrier landing strips] to that of their radar intercept officers, who sat immediately behind them but had no control over the two-​man aircraft. The experiment involved taking [cortisol] samples of both men on no-​mission days as well as immediately after carrier landings... Radar intercept officers lived day-​to-​day with higher levels of stress -- possibly due to the fact that their fate was in someone else's hands -- but on mission days the pilots' stress levels were far higher. The huge responsibility borne by the pilots gave them an ease of mind on their days off that they paid for when actually landing the plane.

    The study was duplicated in 1966 with a twelve-​man Special Forces team in an isolated camp near the Cambodian border in South Vietnam... There was a serious possibility that the base would be overrun, in which case it was generally accepted that it would be "every man for himself." The two officers saw their cortisol levels climb steadily until the day of the expected attack and then diminish as it failed to materialize. Among the enlisted men, however, the stress levels were exactly the opposite: their cortisol levels dropped as the attack drew near, and then started to rise when it became clear that they weren't going to get hit... "The members of this Special Forces team demonstrated an overwhelming emphasis on self-​reliance, often to the point of omnipotence," they wrote. "These subjects were action-​oriented individuals who characteristically spent little time in introspection. Their response to any environmental threat was to engage in a furor of activity which rapidly dissipated the developing tension."

    Specifically, the men strung C-​wire and laid additional mines around the perimeter of the base. It was something they knew how to do and were good at, and the very act of doing it calmed their nerves. In a way that few civilians could understand, they were more at ease facing a known threat than languishing in the tropical heat facing an unknown one.


Quote:
One of the most puzzling things about fear is that it is only loosely related to the level of danger. During World War II, several airborne units that experienced some of the fiercest fighting of the war also reported some of the lowest psychiatric casualty rates in the U.S. military. Combat units typically suffer one psychiatric casualty for every physical one, and during Israel's Yom Kippur War of 1973, frontline casualty rates were roughly consistent with that ratio. But Israeli logistics units, which were subject to far less danger, suffered three psychiatric cases for every physical one. And even frontline troops showed enormous variation in their rate of psychological breakdown. Because many Israeli officers literally led from the front, they were four times more likely to be killed or wounded than their men were -- and yet they suffered one-​fifth the rate of psychological collapse. The primary factor determining breakdown in combat does not appear to be the objective level of danger so much as the feeling -- even the illusion -- of control. Highly trained men in extraordinarily dangerous circumstances are less likely to break down than untrained men in little danger.

The division between those who feel in control of their fate and those who don't can occur even within the same close-​knit group. During World War II, British and American bomber crews experienced casualty rates as high as 70 percent over the course of their tour; they effectively flew missions until they were killed. On those planes, pilots reported experiencing less fear than their turret gunners, who were crucial to operations but had no direct control over the aircraft. Fighter pilots, who suffered casualty rates almost as high as bomber crews, nevertheless reported extremely low levels of fear. They were both highly trained and entirely in control of their own fate, and that allowed them to ignore the statistical reality that they had only a fifty-​fifty chance of surviving their tour.




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« Last Edit: Apr 26th, 2017 at 11:12am by ... »  

In the fullness of time...
 
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Gnads
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Re: 7 young veterans have taken their lives
Reply #47 - Apr 26th, 2017 at 11:06am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 26th, 2017 at 10:07am:
Gnads wrote on Apr 26th, 2017 at 9:22am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
Gnads wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 7:21pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 6:33pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 6:30pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 5:21pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 5:13pm:
We know, mothra.  I'm working my way towards doing something about it.





What's your plan, Grap?



I've been asked to work for the Vet's Association - been tied up with renovating this house for the ex's disabilities - but in the next year I will be positioning myself so I can help and advise young Veterans.

One of the worst things is that many are unemployed and considered unemployable by prospective employers - what greater rejection is there than that?  If I can raise the funds, I want to install a Veterans Employment Agency and maybe a Veterans handled business - many have skills that can be put to good use - and maybe something like the farm in Canada for Canadian Veterans of Afghanistan - some place where they can go and be part of something again, so they don't feel so lost.

At one time I was working on a Social Science degree with Law with the intent of working for the Veteran community, but was interrupted by my own fight with DVA, which left me devastated and nearly broken and broke and in despair.  Takes a long time to get over that kind of thing.


I honestly believe that anyone who has served this country in war should be guaranteed a house and employment for the remainder of their lives.

If they cannot work, they should be granted a pension of sufficient size o allow them to live in absolute dignity.




Shocked I can agree with those sentiments. Believe it or not.


I believe that.. but I know you better.....


What? You don't think I believe that we should look after our veterans much better than we do?

I missed out on a possibility of call up by 12 months or so.

I thank my lucky stars .....

I have nothing but admiration for those who have served.

And I think they deserve more care & consideration when returning home to civilian life.

Wouldn't have a problem with them being given a house & a job if they are capable.


Whoa, Pilgrim - I was agreeing with you.... I know you better than to think you wouldn't think that way.  Veterans and separated service people can all be treated better.


Sorry Grap ... my bad... misinterpretation of the written word.
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Re: 7 young veterans have taken their lives
Reply #48 - Apr 26th, 2017 at 1:30pm
 
On any given day, a month before Anzac Day, how many times in 24 hours did you think about the war in Afghanistan?

Its one thing to say we care about our veterans, but we don't really. Not if we don't care about the cause they are supposed to be fighting for. Not if we send them into the firing line of a foreign war that we are not passionate about. And I don't mean that bulldust passion you hear about from reality TV contestants.

Since when were Australians concerned about who runs Afghanistan? Well, since the Australian government decided that they should. This is not a conflict in which average Australians have anything invested, but just like Vietnam, the troops are there, not because of conviction, but because of Australian voter apathy and ignorance of distant cultures.

The military is being used as an instrument of a foreign policy that has more to do with alliances than defence. Its the fact that not one political party of any substance has made a loud campaign to rally voters against Australian military intervention, that proves we don't care. We would rather dick around with our smart phones, or go shopping than get passionate about causes.

Only one public justification is made for our military's presence in Afghanistan. To bring democracy to the Afghans. How many times did you think about that glorious cause of ours today? Not very often, right?  But you voted for governments that think its worth having our soldiers killed and maimed. So don't give me any crap about you caring.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: 7 young veterans have taken their lives
Reply #49 - Apr 26th, 2017 at 1:34pm
 
Gnads wrote on Apr 26th, 2017 at 11:06am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 26th, 2017 at 10:07am:
Gnads wrote on Apr 26th, 2017 at 9:22am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
Gnads wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 7:21pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 6:33pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 6:30pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 5:21pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 5:13pm:
We know, mothra.  I'm working my way towards doing something about it.





What's your plan, Grap?



I've been asked to work for the Vet's Association - been tied up with renovating this house for the ex's disabilities - but in the next year I will be positioning myself so I can help and advise young Veterans.

One of the worst things is that many are unemployed and considered unemployable by prospective employers - what greater rejection is there than that?  If I can raise the funds, I want to install a Veterans Employment Agency and maybe a Veterans handled business - many have skills that can be put to good use - and maybe something like the farm in Canada for Canadian Veterans of Afghanistan - some place where they can go and be part of something again, so they don't feel so lost.

At one time I was working on a Social Science degree with Law with the intent of working for the Veteran community, but was interrupted by my own fight with DVA, which left me devastated and nearly broken and broke and in despair.  Takes a long time to get over that kind of thing.


I honestly believe that anyone who has served this country in war should be guaranteed a house and employment for the remainder of their lives.

If they cannot work, they should be granted a pension of sufficient size o allow them to live in absolute dignity.




Shocked I can agree with those sentiments. Believe it or not.


I believe that.. but I know you better.....


What? You don't think I believe that we should look after our veterans much better than we do?

I missed out on a possibility of call up by 12 months or so.

I thank my lucky stars .....

I have nothing but admiration for those who have served.

And I think they deserve more care & consideration when returning home to civilian life.

Wouldn't have a problem with them being given a house & a job if they are capable.


Whoa, Pilgrim - I was agreeing with you.... I know you better than to think you wouldn't think that way.  Veterans and separated service people can all be treated better.


Sorry Grap ... my bad... misinterpretation of the written word.


Nah - my comment was a little on the opaque side.... I blame the booze, the feminists, and the immigrants all...  Lips Sealed
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Re: 7 young veterans have taken their lives
Reply #50 - May 3rd, 2017 at 6:58am
 
There seems to be a close similarity between veteran soldiers who have returned to civilian life and the emotional collapse of some of the sporting celebrities after their sporting careers are over.

Take a look at this ...

link
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