Australian Politics Forum - Close down all the Mosques.

Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: Close down all the Mosques. Reply #60 - Apr 24^th, 2017 at 10:06pm Quote: In Islam, state and religion are not separate.... Clarify please.
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Brian Ross

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #61 - Apr 24^th, 2017 at 10:09pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 8:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 5:45pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 5:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 4:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 4:48pm:

Brian - if you're so bored then get off this thread.

You're not welcome.

Tough. Run along, Bobby. Read up about Section 116 yet? Roll Eyes

If Marine wins we'll have to change our laws.

Why, Bobby? We are not beholden to France in anyway, shape or form. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Australia never leads - it follows.

Political pragmatism will force the Australian politicians to give the people what they want.

Won't get past a High Court challenge, Bobby. Section 116 will prevent the closure of the Mosques. The Commonwealth cannot impose religious observance on anybody. Tsk, tsk. The Churches, the Synagogues, the Temples and the Mosques will all preach against this from the pulpit. It is doomed. Just as the Communist Party Dissolution Bill was in 1949. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #62 - Apr 24^th, 2017 at 10:11pm

Frank wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 8:46pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 6:45pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 6:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 5:45pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 5:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 4:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 4:48pm:

Brian - if you're so bored then get off this thread.

You're not welcome.

Tough. Run along, Bobby. Read up about Section 116 yet? Roll Eyes

If Marine wins we'll have to change our laws.

Why, Bobby? We are not beholden to France in anyway, shape or form. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Many of our ideas and values come from France, Doctor Du Culs.

Really? Prove it, Soren. I'd be interested to see what you have to type about it. I am unaware of any "ideas and values" that come directly from France... Roll Eyes

Well, you are unaware, full stop, Doctor of Arse Divining. You are the wanker (Rousseau) of Ozpolitic yet you are 'unaware'. Unaware is your resting bitch face position, little queenie aunt. Unaware and ignorant and forgetting is what you ARE. Thick, unaware, forgetting.
Stupid, thick, unaware, forgetting
Tendentious, stupid, thick, unaware, forgetting, bedwetting.
And so on it goes.
You are a laughing stock, Brian, you are a caricature of the idiotic, tendentious, stupid, thick, unaware, forgetting, bedwetting, virtue signalling wanker.

You cannot possibly be real - yet YOU ARE!!!!!! And we are all laughing!!

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. I'll take that as an admission that you cannot answer my question. Tsk, tsk, just using ad hominem debate to cover your own ignorance. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #63 - Apr 24^th, 2017 at 10:16pm

Frank wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 10:03pm:

You do not need a mosque to be a Muslim. The Commonwealth can shut down mosques as places of insurgency and hostility. Islam cannot hide behind 'religion' when it is a political force.

The constitution was not framed with Islam in mind, but with Christian religious divisions in mind. In Christianity, state and church are separate, and that is what 116 addresses.

In Islam, state and religion are not separate so it cannot be taken for granted that 116 applies to a totalitarian creed like Islam.

You stupid old hag.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, that is not mentioned in the Australian Constitution. The word "religion" is used, not prefaced or suffixed by any denomination or faith, just "religion" and Islam is, despite what you and the other Islamophobes like to claim recognised as a religion. Tsk, tsk, your plan for petty tyranny, thwarted by our founding fathers, hey, Soren? How inconsiderate of them 116 years ago to adopt a Constitution that was so far sighted it stop you in your tracks.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #64 - Apr 24^th, 2017 at 10:58pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 10:09pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 8:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 5:45pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 5:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 4:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 4:48pm:

Brian - if you're so bored then get off this thread.

You're not welcome.

Tough. Run along, Bobby. Read up about Section 116 yet? Roll Eyes

If Marine wins we'll have to change our laws.

Why, Bobby? We are not beholden to France in anyway, shape or form. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Australia never leads - it follows.

Political pragmatism will force the Australian politicians to give the people what they want.

Won't get past a High Court challenge, Bobby. Section 116 will prevent the closure of the Mosques. The Commonwealth cannot impose religious observance on anybody. Tsk, tsk. The Churches, the Synagogues, the Temples and the Mosques will all preach against this from the pulpit. It is doomed. Just as the Communist Party Dissolution Bill was in 1949. Roll Eyes

But you are forgetting war powers!

It's a war on terrorism.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #65 - Apr 25^th, 2017 at 12:46am

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 10:09pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 8:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 5:45pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 5:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 4:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 4:48pm:

Brian - if you're so bored then get off this thread.

You're not welcome.

Tough. Run along, Bobby. Read up about Section 116 yet? Roll Eyes

If Marine wins we'll have to change our laws.

Why, Bobby? We are not beholden to France in anyway, shape or form. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Australia never leads - it follows.

Political pragmatism will force the Australian politicians to give the people what they want.

Won't get past a High Court challenge, Bobby. Section 116 will prevent the closure of the Mosques. The Commonwealth cannot impose religious observance on anybody. Tsk, tsk. The Churches, the Synagogues, the Temples and the Mosques will all preach against this from the pulpit. It is doomed. Just as the Communist Party Dissolution Bill was in 1949. Roll Eyes

But you are forgetting war powers!

It's a war on terrorism.

"War powers" don't allow suspension of the Australian Constitution. Indeed, I can't find any record of any "war powers" under the Australian Constitution in the way you're using the term, Bobby. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #66 - Apr 25^th, 2017 at 5:01am

Aussie wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 10:06pm:

Quote:

In Islam, state and religion are not separate....

Clarify please.

Muhammad wrote the state into the religion. Or the religion into the state, whichever way you want to look at it. Much of the Koran is about the state - in particular motivating Muslims to kill and die for it.

As a result, Muslims like Gandalf will use "the interests of the nascent Islamic State" to justify all manner of atrocities in the name of Islam, such as Muhammad's genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Jewish tribes of Medina.

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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #67 - Apr 25^th, 2017 at 12:30pm

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 5:01am:

Muslims like Gandalf will use "the interests of the nascent Islamic State" to justify all manner of atrocities in the name of Islam, such as Muhammad's genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Jewish tribes of Medina.

That would be difficult since I don't even believe the "genocide" happened (as much as the execution of a few hundred warriors can be called a 'genocide').

In any case, I have made clear that I believe such "issues of state" very separate to the religion of Islam. So yeah, basically the exact opposite of what you claim.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Bobby.

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #68 - Apr 25^th, 2017 at 12:37pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 12:46am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 10:09pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 8:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 5:45pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 5:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 4:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 4:48pm:

Brian - if you're so bored then get off this thread.

You're not welcome.

Tough. Run along, Bobby. Read up about Section 116 yet? Roll Eyes

If Marine wins we'll have to change our laws.

Why, Bobby? We are not beholden to France in anyway, shape or form. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Australia never leads - it follows.

Political pragmatism will force the Australian politicians to give the people what they want.

Won't get past a High Court challenge, Bobby. Section 116 will prevent the closure of the Mosques. The Commonwealth cannot impose religious observance on anybody. Tsk, tsk. The Churches, the Synagogues, the Temples and the Mosques will all preach against this from the pulpit. It is doomed. Just as the Communist Party Dissolution Bill was in 1949. Roll Eyes

But you are forgetting war powers!

It's a war on terrorism.

"War powers" don't allow suspension of the Australian Constitution. Indeed, I can't find any record of any "war powers" under the Australian Constitution in the way you're using the term, Bobby. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

.

War powers override all other laws.

You should know that?

( that's why George Bush was able to use war powers to tap peoples phones
& all communication without a warrant.)

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freediver

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #69 - Apr 25^th, 2017 at 12:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 12:30pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 5:01am:

Muslims like Gandalf will use "the interests of the nascent Islamic State" to justify all manner of atrocities in the name of Islam, such as Muhammad's genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Jewish tribes of Medina.

That would be difficult since I don't even believe the "genocide" happened (as much as the execution of a few hundred warriors can be called a 'genocide').

In any case, I have made clear that I believe such "issues of state" very separate to the religion of Islam. So yeah, basically the exact opposite of what you claim.

You make it look easy Gandalf. For example:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 10:16am:

The actions of Muhammad against the jews was practically necessary to remove serious and real armed threats to the very survival of a fledgling nation.

Let me know if you would like some more examples.

The "fledgling nation" was the city of Medina that Muhammad was seizing control of by slaughtering Jews and by robbing and murdering Meccan traders.

You believed it happened up until you ran out of viable excuses for it, the you switched to genocide denial, which was also based on misrepresentation of the historical evidence.

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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

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Bobby.

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #70 - Apr 25^th, 2017 at 1:04pm

Gandalf - so do you agree with Marine Le Pen?

Le Pen called for:

the closure of all "Islamist" mosques in France,

the expulsion of hate preachers and

the reinstatement of French borders.

People on the French security services' watch list for radicalization should also be expelled from France and

have their French citizenship revoked, she said.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #71 - Apr 25^th, 2017 at 1:23pm

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 12:51pm:

You make it look easy Gandalf. For example:

Of course action was taken - I never said it wasn't.

I believe a few of the ringleaders were tried and executed, and the rest were detained for a short time and later freed. This is consistent with the Quranic version.

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 12:51pm:

You believed it happened up until you ran out of viable excuses for it, the you switched to genocide denial, which was also based on misrepresentation of the historical evidence.

You know how to find my 4 year old posts on it, therefore you can easily find where I always prefaced any discussion by questioning the historical validity of the incident. Over those 4 years I have become even more convinced it didn't happen. Your claim here that it 'misrepresents' historical evidence is laughable. The "historical evidence" amounts to a single person (Ibn Ishaq) writing over a century after the alleged event, who does not cite his sources and is considered unreliable by his contemporaries.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #72 - Apr 25^th, 2017 at 2:16pm

Quote:

I believe a few of the ringleaders were tried and executed

You previously believed that all the men were executed - up until you could no longer maintain the moral contortionism.

Quote:

and the rest were detained for a short time and later freed

Does the Koran say that?

Quote:

You know how to find my 4 year old posts on it, therefore you can easily find where I always prefaced any discussion by questioning the historical validity of the incident. Over those 4 years I have become even more convinced it didn't happen.

You ran out of excuses. You realised what you were saying to justify the genocide was morally reprehensible. So you switched to a different tactic.

Quote:

Your claim here that it 'misrepresents' historical evidence is laughable.

I claimed that you misrepresented the historical evidence, not "it", whatever that means.

Quote:

The "historical evidence" amounts to a single person (Ibn Ishaq) writing over a century after the alleged event, who does not cite his sources and is considered unreliable by his contemporaries.

Are you sure about that Gandalf? 4 years is a long time to convince yourself that the rest of the evidence does not exist. Have you been practicing?

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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

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Frank

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #73 - Apr 25^th, 2017 at 2:23pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 9:48pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 8:33pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24^th, 2017 at 6:47pm:

What a shame she is a member of that same "elite", Herbie. Tsk, tsk. Time you realised Section 116 of the Australian Constitution would prevent any government closing any Mosque/Church/Temple/place of worship. Roll Eyes

You seem to relish the idea that Islamic jihad cannot be legally stopped in the West because of religious freedom. You seem to like the idea that religiously motivated murder cannot be stopped because of religious freedom.

You are contemptible, Brian.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KPmXCf84Ozo/UWGrVhH6nyI/AAAAAAAAAd4/0Xoj4kE1eKg/s72-c/...

"Jihad" can be stopped by the government applying the existing laws it has passed already.

So why hasn't jihad stopped then??

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Bobby.

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Re: Close down all the Mosques.
Reply #74 - Apr 25^th, 2017 at 4:04pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Gandalf - so do you agree with Marine Le Pen?

Le Pen called for:

the closure of all "Islamist" mosques in France,

the expulsion of hate preachers and

the reinstatement of French borders.

People on the French security services' watch list for radicalization should also be expelled from France and

have their French citizenship revoked, she said.

You'd think that Gandalf would have an opinion on this -
but no - he runs away.

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