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Anzac Day (Read 16115 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #165 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:43pm
 
cods wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:27pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 4:26pm:
cods wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:35pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 2:57pm:
Any Vietnam Vet is gonna get quite angry at being called an imposter, Cods.  It is the worst accusation (after cowardice/treason) which can be levelled at an ex ADF person.  Big Ol' knows that.


Normie Rowe sure didn't like it; must have affected his album sales.
Wink


he was one of the vets that had pigs blood thrown on him when they returned....


Really?  You have evidence to support that assertion, Cods?   Normie Rowe as far as I am aware has never mentioned that.  He was treated like most Nashos - when he returned from Vietnam he was out on the streets in civvie clothes within 24 hours.   Only when a unit was embarking for it's tour of South Vietnam was there any parade to honour the event.   No way, was Rowe in a parade when they returned.

Quote:
it was pretty disgraceful the way Vietnam war vets were welcomed back...just a blot on our copybook I guess... lets hope we never sink to that level again.


I agree.   We also need to tell the truth, Cods, not myths about what happened and why it happened.  Our troops performed well, our politicians did not.    Roll Eyes



well I for one have always been proud of our service men and women  and that goes for overseas ones as well...we have no idea what they see or have to do...so they have all my admiration....

about the pollies... well thats another story for another day.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I dont care if a man spent the war peeling potatoes  he was an important part of something I was not a part off.........I wish we looked out for them more when they come home.


Could not agree more, Cods.  PTSD is a hidden enemy.  Personally, I put a great deal of the suffering our service people suffer from after their tours of duty are because of the lack of "adjustment time" they are afforded.  In WWI and WWII and Korea, they had months after the fighting stopped to come back to earth, before reaching home.   Some failed to adjust but the majority did.

Today, they are back in hours and expected to perform as normal people, despite what they have experienced.   The military throws them out like confetti and makes little effort to care for them.

cods wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:28pm:
I will be honest brian.. I would seriously talk any of my grandkids out of joining up....

after what I read some of our vets go through after they do tours of duty.....

its disgraceful..


I will not allow any of my children to serve until the services clean up their acts WRT abuse and mistreatment of their own members.   It is IMO a disgrace which senior officers should be Court Martialled for and punished if found guilty of neglecting their responsibilities to their juniors.    In the 30 years since I left the Army, the attitude has changed markedly and for the worse IMO.   Women in particular are mistreated badly.   Such things I now know happened in my day but they were not as common as they appear to be today.   Sad
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #166 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:43pm
 
A keyboard warrior is Sir Booby de Louse  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

He can’t even defend the stupid videos he posts in the Environment board. Then again, they are 100% rubbish.
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Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
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Agnes
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #167 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:52pm
 
In all seriousness this is beautiful...



These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Someday you'll return to
Your valleys and your farms
And you'll no longer burn to be
Brothers in arms

Through these fields of destruction
Baptisms of fire
I've witnessed your suffering
As the battle raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms

There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones

Now the sun's gone to hell and
The moon's riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But it's written in the starlight
And every line in your palm
We are fools to make war
On our brothers in arm
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x=^..^= x <o((((>< ~~~ x=^..^=x~~~x=^..^=x<o((((><~~~x=^..^=x


farewell to days of wild abandon and freedom in the adriatic
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #168 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:53pm
 
Agnes wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:42pm:
Bobby. wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:38pm:
Agnes wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:17pm:
OK guys..hope you are all ready with your AK 47s and your spuds at the ready to strike tomorrow morning at the crack of sparrows..shoot anything that moves and that's an order. Cool Roll Eyes

Bobby --- DUCK!!!!!

Any abuse directed at me just look at my sig and choose your words carefully.



Brave men like me don't duck -

they charge towards the enemy.

  With all your medals pinned to your full metal jacket Bobby and your Victoria cross protecting your heart..to deflect bullets/spuds you understand. Cool



I even have a war face - arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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cods
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #169 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 11:04pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:43pm:
cods wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:27pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 4:26pm:
cods wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:35pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 2:57pm:
Any Vietnam Vet is gonna get quite angry at being called an imposter, Cods.  It is the worst accusation (after cowardice/treason) which can be levelled at an ex ADF person.  Big Ol' knows that.


Normie Rowe sure didn't like it; must have affected his album sales.
Wink


he was one of the vets that had pigs blood thrown on him when they returned....


Really?  You have evidence to support that assertion, Cods?   Normie Rowe as far as I am aware has never mentioned that.  He was treated like most Nashos - when he returned from Vietnam he was out on the streets in civvie clothes within 24 hours.   Only when a unit was embarking for it's tour of South Vietnam was there any parade to honour the event.   No way, was Rowe in a parade when they returned.

Quote:
it was pretty disgraceful the way Vietnam war vets were welcomed back...just a blot on our copybook I guess... lets hope we never sink to that level again.


I agree.   We also need to tell the truth, Cods, not myths about what happened and why it happened.  Our troops performed well, our politicians did not.    Roll Eyes



well I for one have always been proud of our service men and women  and that goes for overseas ones as well...we have no idea what they see or have to do...so they have all my admiration....

about the pollies... well thats another story for another day.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I dont care if a man spent the war peeling potatoes  he was an important part of something I was not a part off.........I wish we looked out for them more when they come home.


Could not agree more, Cods.  PTSD is a hidden enemy.  Personally, I put a great deal of the suffering our service people suffer from after their tours of duty are because of the lack of "adjustment time" they are afforded.  In WWI and WWII and Korea, they had months after the fighting stopped to come back to earth, before reaching home.   Some failed to adjust but the majority did.

Today, they are back in hours and expected to perform as normal people, despite what they have experienced.   The military throws them out like confetti and makes little effort to care for them.

cods wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:28pm:
I will be honest brian.. I would seriously talk any of my grandkids out of joining up....

after what I read some of our vets go through after they do tours of duty.....

its disgraceful..


I will not allow any of my children to serve until the services clean up their acts WRT abuse and mistreatment of their own members.   It is IMO a disgrace which senior officers should be Court Martialled for and punished if found guilty of neglecting their responsibilities to their juniors.    In the 30 years since I left the Army, the attitude has changed markedly and for the worse IMO.   Women in particular are mistreated badly.   Such things I now know happened in my day but they were not as common as they appear to be today.   Sad



hey we agree    thats cool!
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #170 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 11:14pm
 
Quote:
Could not agree more, Cods.  PTSD is a hidden enemy.  Personally, I put a great deal of the suffering our service people suffer from after their tours of duty are because of the lack of "adjustment time" they are afforded.  In WWI and WWII and Korea, they had months after the fighting stopped to come back to earth, before reaching home.   Some failed to adjust but the majority did.

Today, they are back in hours and expected to perform as normal people, despite what they have experienced.   The military throws them out like confetti and makes little effort to care for them.


That is the first time I have read of a possible and credible explanation as to why my Old Man and his Mates seemed to have no problems like the Vietnam blokes obviously did on their return to Australia and demobilisation.

It is true.  The WW2 fellas were overseas.....had time to relax when the announcment was made that the Japs had surrendered.....had time to soak up, and bludge where they were until they could be on some ship to bring them home.  It was not overnight.  It was not getting your arse lit up on Sunday night and back home in Australia on Monday morning.  The other nasty bit is that the WW2 fellas at least had a win under their belt.

The Vietnam blokes were home 'overnight,' took a shellacking and were on the defeated side.  Has to be acknowledged as it is plain and simple fact.

Excellent point, Mr Ross.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #171 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 11:21pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:43pm:
cods wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:27pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 4:26pm:
cods wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:35pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 2:57pm:
Any Vietnam Vet is gonna get quite angry at being called an imposter, Cods.  It is the worst accusation (after cowardice/treason) which can be levelled at an ex ADF person.  Big Ol' knows that.


Normie Rowe sure didn't like it; must have affected his album sales.
Wink


he was one of the vets that had pigs blood thrown on him when they returned....


Really?  You have evidence to support that assertion, Cods?   Normie Rowe as far as I am aware has never mentioned that.  He was treated like most Nashos - when he returned from Vietnam he was out on the streets in civvie clothes within 24 hours.   Only when a unit was embarking for it's tour of South Vietnam was there any parade to honour the event.   No way, was Rowe in a parade when they returned.

Quote:
it was pretty disgraceful the way Vietnam war vets were welcomed back...just a blot on our copybook I guess... lets hope we never sink to that level again.


I agree.   We also need to tell the truth, Cods, not myths about what happened and why it happened.  Our troops performed well, our politicians did not.    Roll Eyes



well I for one have always been proud of our service men and women  and that goes for overseas ones as well...we have no idea what they see or have to do...so they have all my admiration....

about the pollies... well thats another story for another day.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I dont care if a man spent the war peeling potatoes  he was an important part of something I was not a part off.........I wish we looked out for them more when they come home.


Could not agree more, Cods.  PTSD is a hidden enemy.  Personally, I put a great deal of the suffering our service people suffer from after their tours of duty are because of the lack of "adjustment time" they are afforded.  In WWI and WWII and Korea, they had months after the fighting stopped to come back to earth, before reaching home.   Some failed to adjust but the majority did.

Today, they are back in hours and expected to perform as normal people, despite what they have experienced.   The military throws them out like confetti and makes little effort to care for them.

cods wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:28pm:
I will be honest brian.. I would seriously talk any of my grandkids out of joining up....

after what I read some of our vets go through after they do tours of duty.....

its disgraceful..


I will not allow any of my children to serve until the services clean up their acts WRT abuse and mistreatment of their own members. 
 It is IMO a disgrace which senior officers should be Court Martialled for and punished if found guilty of neglecting their responsibilities to their juniors.    In the 30 years since I left the Army, the attitude has changed markedly and for the worse IMO.   Women in particular are mistreated badly.   Such things I now know happened in my day but they were not as common as they appear to be today.   Sad


That's what I said..... my son still wanted to give it a go - didn't get into ADFA, so said he'd be a grunt - they said No - you're too smart.... daughter considered the one year hitch.. Dad quietly said to think carefully...last comment from boy was asking for some inside contact so he could get in - I said:- "It's not done that way with me.  Totally on your own merit."
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Aussie
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #172 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 11:24pm
 
As to Cadets:

I am a pretty fit bloke and always was involved in sports.  When I got to High School, they had Cadets and I was a natural to be among them.

Nah.  It was not to be.  Dad put his normally very relaxed foot down and simply vetoed it...no room for discussion, no debate, no argument, no Cadets.  End.

"I had enough of doing the real thing, and no way are you going to go and be a play Soldier, forget it 'Aussie,' it is not happening."  That was that.

He never stopped me going to the Cadet annual High School Cadet camps with my lever action Winchester .22 and blanks to play Dick Heads with my Mates......and neither did the High School Cadet CO......'cause I was......well .......  the Big Kahuna Dick Head at the High School.

(There ya go PAnimals.....decipher that.)
Grin
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #173 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 11:27pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:30pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:13pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:07pm:
Neferti wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
National Service should be re-introduced. A year or so in Army would soon sort out the chaff from the straw. Girls included.



I have never been a fan of the ADF being a dumping ground for society's dregs.

Those who volunteer are still hard bastards, but I don't see a lot of benefit in dragging the lazy and the stupid through the system for a couple of years.


After the Vietnam experience, the decision was made that an all-volunteer force was needed.  Even in WW II it was the all-volunteer units that performed best.  National service has its merits in teaching some basics to a large number who may then be called upon in an emergency, but is costly to run and a drain on trained and experienced personnel.


Conscription is only useful in an existential crisis such as occurred in WWII.  The conscripts in WWII perform as well as, and in some cases better than their companion AIF units.   39 Battalion at Kokoda and Battle of the Bridgeheads springs to mind, while 48 Battalion was the most awarded unit in the Australian Army.   To claim that Conscripts performed badly is not true.

As for what happened after Vietnam, the Army got what it wanted - a professional force and it sidelined the CMF/ARes, only for it to discover that it needed the "stretch" that the trained diggers from the ARes gave to them when times got tough and their commitments many and varied, ranging from East Timor through The Solomons and thence to Afghanistan and Iraq.

The Politicians became frightened at the division they perceived in Australian society that Conscription had brought about.  They didn't understand that it wasn't Conscription, as such which caused the division but the serving of Conscripts overseas in South Vietnam.   The Australian public supported Conscription in poll after poll during the 1960s, it was the overseas service which divided them.   So they gave the Army want it had wanted since before WWII - a professional military force.   Before then, Australia had relied upon a volunteer force, backed by a citiziens' militia.   That worked adequately, although strained, by the evens of the Western Front in WWI.   WWII experience was that the concept needed reorganisation and reinforcement.   Korea was all volunteers, Vietnam proved that Conscripts were as good as Regulars.



Whoa there - I didn't say the conscripts performed badly, but I was referring mainly to the WW II SLAM Marshall report on the US - in which he made it clear that the Airborne, Marines and Rangers, all volunteer units, were the best, and had 'go ahead'.  To some extent that is true with Oz as well, with the initial enlistees performing outstandingly in the Middle East.  No criticism of the conscripts or the Militia - all ended up absorbed into the AIF anyway.

The US experience in Vietnam virtually compelled a return to a fully volunteer army, and I am well aware that our Nashos did very well.

Don't jump so fast.  I was essentially discussing elite units v conscript units..... I wasn't clear enough.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #174 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 11:33pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 11:14pm:
Quote:
Could not agree more, Cods.  PTSD is a hidden enemy.  Personally, I put a great deal of the suffering our service people suffer from after their tours of duty are because of the lack of "adjustment time" they are afforded.  In WWI and WWII and Korea, they had months after the fighting stopped to come back to earth, before reaching home.   Some failed to adjust but the majority did.

Today, they are back in hours and expected to perform as normal people, despite what they have experienced.   The military throws them out like confetti and makes little effort to care for them.


That is the first time I have read of a possible and credible explanation as to why my Old Man and his Mates seemed to have no problems like the Vietnam blokes obviously did on their return to Australia and demobilisation.

It is true.  The WW2 fellas were overseas.....had time to relax when the announcment was made that the Japs had surrendered.....had time to soak up, and bludge where they were until they could be on some ship to bring them home.  It was not overnight.  It was not getting your arse lit up on Sunday night and back home in Australia on Monday morning.  The other nasty bit is that the WW2 fellas at least had a win under their belt.

The Vietnam blokes were home 'overnight,' took a shellacking and were on the defeated side.  Has to be acknowledged as it is plain and simple fact.

Excellent point, Mr Ross.



Quote:
................the WW2 fellas at least had a win under their belt.................


that makes a big difference

Many WW1 vets had 'shell shock.'

War is bad.
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Modern Classic Right Wing
 
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #175 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 11:38pm
 
I'm off to bed.. night.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Brian Ross
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #176 - Apr 25th, 2017 at 12:26am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 11:27pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:30pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:13pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:07pm:
Neferti wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
National Service should be re-introduced. A year or so in Army would soon sort out the chaff from the straw. Girls included.



I have never been a fan of the ADF being a dumping ground for society's dregs.

Those who volunteer are still hard bastards, but I don't see a lot of benefit in dragging the lazy and the stupid through the system for a couple of years.


After the Vietnam experience, the decision was made that an all-volunteer force was needed.  Even in WW II it was the all-volunteer units that performed best.  National service has its merits in teaching some basics to a large number who may then be called upon in an emergency, but is costly to run and a drain on trained and experienced personnel.


Conscription is only useful in an existential crisis such as occurred in WWII.  The conscripts in WWII perform as well as, and in some cases better than their companion AIF units.   39 Battalion at Kokoda and Battle of the Bridgeheads springs to mind, while 48 Battalion was the most awarded unit in the Australian Army.   To claim that Conscripts performed badly is not true.

As for what happened after Vietnam, the Army got what it wanted - a professional force and it sidelined the CMF/ARes, only for it to discover that it needed the "stretch" that the trained diggers from the ARes gave to them when times got tough and their commitments many and varied, ranging from East Timor through The Solomons and thence to Afghanistan and Iraq.

The Politicians became frightened at the division they perceived in Australian society that Conscription had brought about.  They didn't understand that it wasn't Conscription, as such which caused the division but the serving of Conscripts overseas in South Vietnam.   The Australian public supported Conscription in poll after poll during the 1960s, it was the overseas service which divided them.   So they gave the Army want it had wanted since before WWII - a professional military force.   Before then, Australia had relied upon a volunteer force, backed by a citiziens' militia.   That worked adequately, although strained, by the evens of the Western Front in WWI.   WWII experience was that the concept needed reorganisation and reinforcement.   Korea was all volunteers, Vietnam proved that Conscripts were as good as Regulars.



Whoa there - I didn't say the conscripts performed badly, but I was referring mainly to the WW II SLAM Marshall report on the US - in which he made it clear that the Airborne, Marines and Rangers, all volunteer units, were the best, and had 'go ahead'.  To some extent that is true with Oz as well, with the initial enlistees performing outstandingly in the Middle East.  No criticism of the conscripts or the Militia - all ended up absorbed into the AIF anyway.

The US experience in Vietnam virtually compelled a return to a fully volunteer army, and I am well aware that our Nashos did very well.

Don't jump so fast.  I was essentially discussing elite units v conscript units..... I wasn't clear enough.



Yes, you weren't clear.  I do hope you are aware that Marshall's findings are now considered highly suspect by most theoreticians because it is now realised he lied about what he had been told by the veterans he interviewed?    Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #177 - Apr 25th, 2017 at 8:23pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 4:05pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:13pm:
Interesting you take high ground here about that, yet you wallow in it elsewhere.

I agree that Karnal went too far, but there was significant provocation....assuming he is a Vietnam Vet, and I have seen nothing which suggests he is an imposter.



It is a lot easier for ex-servicemen  to spot the imposter, by their mannerisms and behaviours than it is for a civilian.


His big problem was claiming that he was a lot younger than myself and also claiming he fought in Viet Nam, I like a lot of people have my year of birth as part of my nick, I have also confirmed my service was during the 80s & 90, not the 50s & 60s.

So, how does he serve in Viet Nam and manages to be younger than a person who was 8 years old when that war ended?

He fkken doesn't.  Angry Angry


All of these lying pricks get caught out sooner or later.




What the fck's a "serviceman?" You're either a fighter or you're a hissy little screecher.

It's fake Amerikan terms like serviceman that catch you out, son. I might be older than you in years, but you've been an humourless old soak since the day you were born.

We fighters can spot an imposter a mile off. And yeah, I believe you polished missiles for the air force.

Serviceman.
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« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2017 at 8:29pm by Mattyfisk »  
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #178 - Apr 25th, 2017 at 8:27pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 25th, 2017 at 8:23pm:
What the bugger's a "serviceman?" You're either a fighter or you're not.

It's fake Amerikan terms like serviceman that catch you out, son. I might be older than you in years, but you're still in some Mickey Rooney movie.

We fighters can spot an imposter a mile off. And yeah, I believe you polished missiles for the air force.

Serviceman.



Hi Karnal,
do you have a war face?

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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #179 - Apr 25th, 2017 at 8:31pm
 
Sir Booby the Louse  does not have a war face, unless you count the sight of his bottom cleavage running running running away from the afray at the speed of light.
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Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
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