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Anzac Day (Read 16112 times)
Aussie
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #150 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:21pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 4:36pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 4:02pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:39pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:35pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 2:57pm:
Any Vietnam Vet is gonna get quite angry at being called an imposter, Cods.  It is the worst accusation (after cowardice/treason) which can be levelled at an ex ADF person.  Big Ol' knows that.


Normie Rowe sure didn't like it; must have affected his album sales.
Wink


I can't recall that.  I know there was some controversy about his marble dropping him into conscription.


Yeas, here it is.  Holt manipulated it.  Pathetic arsehole.

Link.


Something about the dates on that don't gell, Aussie.

Rowe was born in 1947.
He was called up, at age 21, in 1968.   That is after Holt was dead in 1967.
Rowe served 1968-69 (one year training, one year in Vietnam followed by three years CMF).

Apart from the age problem - Conscription was only for 20 year olds - Holt was long gone before Rowe was called up.

Someone manipulated it, I don't think Holt can take the blame though.  I doubt Holt cared if Rowe served or not.



Okay, so that means the source is crap, and I doubt that.  It is fact that Rowe went in yet others born on the same day he was, did not.  That would piss me off.

The timing is tight.  Holt may have put this in place not knowing that Submarine was gonna pick him up off Cheviott (sp) Beach.
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« Last Edit: Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:56pm by Aussie »  
 
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #151 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:52pm
 
National Service should be re-introduced. A year or so in Army would soon sort out the chaff from the straw. Girls included.

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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #152 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:07pm
 
Neferti wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
National Service should be re-introduced. A year or so in Army would soon sort out the chaff from the straw. Girls included.




I have never been a fan of the ADF being a dumping ground for society's dregs.


Those who volunteer are still hard bastards, but I don't see a lot of benefit in dragging the lazy and the stupid through the system for a couple of years.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #153 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:13pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:07pm:
Neferti wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
National Service should be re-introduced. A year or so in Army would soon sort out the chaff from the straw. Girls included.




I have never been a fan of the ADF being a dumping ground for society's dregs.


Those who volunteer are still hard bastards, but I don't see a lot of benefit in dragging the lazy and the stupid through the system for a couple of years.




After the Vietnam experience, the decision was made that an all-volunteer force was needed.  Even in WW II it was the all-volunteer units that performed best.  National service has its merits in teaching some basics to a large number who may then be called upon in an emergency, but is costly to run and a drain on trained and experienced personnel.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #154 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:22pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:21pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 4:36pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 4:02pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:39pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:35pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 2:57pm:
Any Vietnam Vet is gonna get quite angry at being called an imposter, Cods.  It is the worst accusation (after cowardice/treason) which can be levelled at an ex ADF person.  Big Ol' knows that.


Normie Rowe sure didn't like it; must have affected his album sales.
Wink


I can't recall that.  I know there was some controversy about his marble dropping him into conscription.


Yeas, here it is.  Holt manipulated it.  Pathetic arsehole.

Link.


Something about the dates on that don't gell, Aussie.

Rowe was born in 1947.
He was called up, at age 21, in 1968.   That is after Holt was dead in 1967.
Rowe served 1968-69 (one year training, one year in Vietnam followed by three years CMF).

Apart from the age problem - Conscription was only for 20 year olds - Holt was long gone before Rowe was called up.

Someone manipulated it, I don't think Holt can take the blame though.  I doubt Holt cared if Rowe served or not.



Okay, so that means the source is crap, and I doubt that.  It is fact that Rowe went in yet others born on the same day he was, did not.  That would piss me off.

The timing is tight.  Holt may have put this in place not knowing that Submarine was gonna pick him up off Cheviott (sp) Beach.



I've had this argument before - an entire graduating medicine class at Melbourne University were called up - coincidence?  I don't think so - and it is no coincidence that many were called up on the basis of their occupation.

The greatest insult to Normie Rowe was when he approached DVA for assistance with issues and was told he was only a performer, wasn't he?  He served with an old mate of mine.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #155 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:25pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 4:36pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 4:02pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:39pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:35pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 2:57pm:
Any Vietnam Vet is gonna get quite angry at being called an imposter, Cods.  It is the worst accusation (after cowardice/treason) which can be levelled at an ex ADF person.  Big Ol' knows that.


Normie Rowe sure didn't like it; must have affected his album sales.
Wink


I can't recall that.  I know there was some controversy about his marble dropping him into conscription.


Yeas, here it is.  Holt manipulated it.  Pathetic arsehole.

Link.


Something about the dates on that don't gell, Aussie.

Rowe was born in 1947.
He was called up, at age 21, in 1968.   That is after Holt was dead in 1967.
Rowe served 1968-69 (one year training, one year in Vietnam followed by three years CMF).

Apart from the age problem - Conscription was only for 20 year olds - Holt was long gone before Rowe was called up.

Someone manipulated it, I don't think Holt can take the blame though.  I doubt Holt cared if Rowe served or not.


A postponement could be obtained for study etc... not sure where Normie fits in there...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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cods
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #156 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:27pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 4:26pm:
cods wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 3:35pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 2:57pm:
Any Vietnam Vet is gonna get quite angry at being called an imposter, Cods.  It is the worst accusation (after cowardice/treason) which can be levelled at an ex ADF person.  Big Ol' knows that.


Normie Rowe sure didn't like it; must have affected his album sales.
Wink


he was one of the vets that had pigs blood thrown on him when they returned....


Really?  You have evidence to support that assertion, Cods?   Normie Rowe as far as I am aware has never mentioned that.  He was treated like most Nashos - when he returned from Vietnam he was out on the streets in civvie clothes within 24 hours.   Only when a unit was embarking for it's tour of South Vietnam was there any parade to honour the event.   No way, was Rowe in a parade when they returned.

Quote:
it was pretty disgraceful the way Vietnam war vets were welcomed back...just a blot on our copybook I guess... lets hope we never sink to that level again.


I agree.   We also need to tell the truth, Cods, not myths about what happened and why it happened.  Our troops performed well, our politicians did not.    Roll Eyes



well I for one have always been proud of our service men and women  and that goes for overseas ones as well...we have no idea what they see or have to do...so they have all my admiration....

about the pollies... well thats another story for another day.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I dont care if a man spent the war peeling potatoes  he was an important part of something I was not a part off.........I wish we looked out for them more when they come home.
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cods
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #157 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:28pm
 
I will be honest brian.. I would seriously talk any of my grandkids out of joining up....

after what I read some of our vets go through after they do tours of duty.....

its disgraceful..
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #158 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:44pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:07pm:
Neferti wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
National Service should be re-introduced. A year or so in Army would soon sort out the chaff from the straw. Girls included.




I have never been a fan of the ADF being a dumping ground for society's dregs.


Those who volunteer are still hard bastards, but I don't see a lot of benefit in dragging the lazy and the stupid through the system for a couple of years.


Wasn't there something called "Cadets" at High School level once upon a time?  Discipline?  Learning to take Orders and so forth?

These days, teenagers reckon that they can get away with everything .... they NEED discipline and their parents aren't allowed to give it to them (or they will be reported).  Kids NEED DISCIPLINE ... even a few hours a week, at school, might instill SOMETHING in their small minds.
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BigOl64
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #159 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 8:02pm
 
Neferti wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:44pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:07pm:
Neferti wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
National Service should be re-introduced. A year or so in Army would soon sort out the chaff from the straw. Girls included.




I have never been a fan of the ADF being a dumping ground for society's dregs.


Those who volunteer are still hard bastards, but I don't see a lot of benefit in dragging the lazy and the stupid through the system for a couple of years.


Wasn't there something called "Cadets" at High School level once upon a time?  Discipline?  Learning to take Orders and so forth?

These days, teenagers reckon that they can get away with everything .... they NEED discipline and their parents aren't allowed to give it to them (or they will be reported).  Kids NEED DISCIPLINE ... even a few hours a week, at school, might instill SOMETHING in their small minds.



There still is the Cadets, and I have no probs with that, just not having the dregs dumped onto the ADF to look after.

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Agnes
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #160 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:17pm
 
OK guys..hope you are all ready with your AK 47s and your spuds at the ready to strike tomorrow morning at the crack of sparrows..shoot anything that moves and that's an order. Cool Roll Eyes

Bobby --- DUCK!!!!!

Any abuse directed at me just look at my sig and choose your words carefully.
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« Last Edit: Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:32pm by Agnes »  

x=^..^= x <o((((>< ~~~ x=^..^=x~~~x=^..^=x<o((((><~~~x=^..^=x


farewell to days of wild abandon and freedom in the adriatic
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #161 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:30pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:13pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:07pm:
Neferti wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
National Service should be re-introduced. A year or so in Army would soon sort out the chaff from the straw. Girls included.



I have never been a fan of the ADF being a dumping ground for society's dregs.

Those who volunteer are still hard bastards, but I don't see a lot of benefit in dragging the lazy and the stupid through the system for a couple of years.


After the Vietnam experience, the decision was made that an all-volunteer force was needed.  Even in WW II it was the all-volunteer units that performed best.  National service has its merits in teaching some basics to a large number who may then be called upon in an emergency, but is costly to run and a drain on trained and experienced personnel.


Conscription is only useful in an existential crisis such as occurred in WWII.  The conscripts in WWII perform as well as, and in some cases better than their companion AIF units.   39 Battalion at Kokoda and Battle of the Bridgeheads springs to mind, while 48 Battalion was the most awarded unit in the Australian Army.   To claim that Conscripts performed badly is not true.

As for what happened after Vietnam, the Army got what it wanted - a professional force and it sidelined the CMF/ARes, only for it to discover that it needed the "stretch" that the trained diggers from the ARes gave to them when times got tough and their commitments many and varied, ranging from East Timor through The Solomons and thence to Afghanistan and Iraq.

The Politicians became frightened at the division they perceived in Australian society that Conscription had brought about.  They didn't understand that it wasn't Conscription, as such which caused the division but the serving of Conscripts overseas in South Vietnam.   The Australian public supported Conscription in poll after poll during the 1960s, it was the overseas service which divided them.   So they gave the Army want it had wanted since before WWII - a professional military force.   Before then, Australia had relied upon a volunteer force, backed by a citiziens' militia.   That worked adequately, although strained, by the evens of the Western Front in WWI.   WWII experience was that the concept needed reorganisation and reinforcement.   Korea was all volunteers, Vietnam proved that Conscripts were as good as Regulars.
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #162 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:35pm
 
Neferti wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:44pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 7:07pm:
Neferti wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
National Service should be re-introduced. A year or so in Army would soon sort out the chaff from the straw. Girls included.



I have never been a fan of the ADF being a dumping ground for society's dregs.

Those who volunteer are still hard bastards, but I don't see a lot of benefit in dragging the lazy and the stupid through the system for a couple of years.


Wasn't there something called "Cadets" at High School level once upon a time?  Discipline?  Learning to take Orders and so forth?

These days, teenagers reckon that they can get away with everything .... they NEED discipline and their parents aren't allowed to give it to them (or they will be reported).  Kids NEED DISCIPLINE ... even a few hours a week, at school, might instill SOMETHING in their small minds.


"Discipline" does not require physical punishment, Neferti.   Parents are allowed to discipline their children, they are not allowed to beat them.   Beating a child is subjecting them to unnecessary abuse.

Cadets provided a disciplined environment but apart from that, their value to the military was minimal, as the various Government reports on the matter in the early 1970s showed.   That was why they were discontinued.   They were reinstituted in the mid-1970s and then discontinued again.  In the mid-1980s they were reinstituted again but more on the basis of community than schools.   Their emphasis also changed from military training to more "Boy Scouts" type stuff. 

Cadets cannot and even back in the days of the old school system, could not be beaten.  Discipline was instituted through spoken words and punishments, not physical striking.  Cadets were subject to the same military law as adults (with modifications).
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #163 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:38pm
 
Agnes wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:17pm:
OK guys..hope you are all ready with your AK 47s and your spuds at the ready to strike tomorrow morning at the crack of sparrows..shoot anything that moves and that's an order. Cool Roll Eyes

Bobby --- DUCK!!!!!

Any abuse directed at me just look at my sig and choose your words carefully.



Brave men like me don't duck -

they charge towards the enemy.
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #164 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:42pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:38pm:
Agnes wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 10:17pm:
OK guys..hope you are all ready with your AK 47s and your spuds at the ready to strike tomorrow morning at the crack of sparrows..shoot anything that moves and that's an order. Cool Roll Eyes

Bobby --- DUCK!!!!!

Any abuse directed at me just look at my sig and choose your words carefully.



Brave men like me don't duck -

they charge towards the enemy.

  With all your medals pinned to your full metal jacket Bobby and your Victoria cross protecting your heart..to deflect bullets/spuds you understand. Cool
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x=^..^= x <o((((>< ~~~ x=^..^=x~~~x=^..^=x<o((((><~~~x=^..^=x


farewell to days of wild abandon and freedom in the adriatic
 
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