Australian Politics Forum - Negative Income Tax: would you support it?

Dnarever

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Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it?
Reply #60 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:46pm

Auggie wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 7:11pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2017 at 9:54pm:

Auggie wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2017 at 12:04pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2017 at 9:41am:

Quote:

They will be better off because they'll pay either no or less tax.

So now the government can not pay their bills and the deficit goes through the roof ?

The minimum amount $8000 is less than the full amount of Newstart Allowance of approx. $12k per annum.

From the original proposition you really think that people who are $4,000 worse off are not worse off now ?

How about pensioners ? same boat now that you have put them on $8,000 are they not worse off by more, they would lose $20K and get $8K ?

In reality any change would have to at least balance with the current numbers. All this does is redistributes the tax burden making it fairer for some at the expense of others.

Dnarever, there's never enough money that the government can provide. Should the Newstart Payment be $1000 per week? Of course not. Should it be the amount that is enough for a person to live off? Of course not, otherwise no one will work.

Quote:

Should it be the amount that is enough for a person to live off, Of course not

People on newstart die of it, really ?

So, you think that the government should pay a minimum liveable wage to everyone?

I sure don't want people who go onto new start to be falling off the perch because of it.

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Bobby.

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Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it?
Reply #61 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:51pm

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2017 at 10:08am:

Quote:

The minimum amount $8000 is less than the full amount of Newstart Allowance of approx. $12k per annum.

Perhaps he thinks that conforming to his strange ideological stance about fairness would make up for the missing $4000 and the inability of the government to provide other services.

FD,
The cost of living is so high & the lousy newstart so hard to get
that it's no wonder we have streets full of crime & home invasions.

No one is safe anymore - even in their own home.

The fact is that there are not enough jobs to go around
& those without jobs need to resort to crime in order to live.

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Auggie

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Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it?
Reply #62 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:53pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:51pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2017 at 10:08am:

Quote:

The minimum amount $8000 is less than the full amount of Newstart Allowance of approx. $12k per annum.

Perhaps he thinks that conforming to his strange ideological stance about fairness would make up for the missing $4000 and the inability of the government to provide other services.

FD,
The cost of living is so high & the lousy newstart so hard to get
that it's no wonder we have streets full of crime & home invasions.

No one is safe anymore - even in their own home.

The fact is that there are not enough jobs to go around
& those without jobs need to resort to crime in order to live.

So, you think that the Government should give people $50,000 per year in guaranteed income?

Second, are you justifying murder on the basis of poverty? There are plenty of poor people who don't commit crimes. It's a choice. It's not like these people are starving.

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freediver

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Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it?
Reply #63 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:55pm

Anyone who can't sponge of the system in Australia isn't trying hard enough. Which is also why they don't have a job. Being on the dole should not be easy. It should create a strong incentive to get a job.

Auggie wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 7:10pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2017 at 9:22pm:

Quote:

I should have said that the majority of people will be better off.

Because it is the truth, or because it is easier to get away with?

Does it matter?

Not to you apparently. But it will when you try to reduce people's net income.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 57172 Here Gender:	Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it? Reply #64 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:56pm freediver wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:55pm: Anyone who can't sponge of the system in Australia isn't trying hard enough. Which is also why they don't have a job. Being on the dole should not be easy. It should create a strong incentive to get a job. It does.
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Bobby.

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Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it?
Reply #65 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:59pm

Auggie wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:51pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2017 at 10:08am:

Quote:

The minimum amount $8000 is less than the full amount of Newstart Allowance of approx. $12k per annum.

Perhaps he thinks that conforming to his strange ideological stance about fairness would make up for the missing $4000 and the inability of the government to provide other services.

FD,
The cost of living is so high & the lousy newstart so hard to get
that it's no wonder we have streets full of crime & home invasions.

No one is safe anymore - even in their own home.

The fact is that there are not enough jobs to go around
& those without jobs need to resort to crime in order to live.

So, you think that the Government should give people $50,000 per year in guaranteed income?

Second, are you justifying murder on the basis of poverty? There are plenty of poor people who don't commit crimes. It's a choice. It's not like these people are starving.

They are starving - people are living under bridges -
I can't image how awful it would be to be in their position.
There's no excuse for this in a wealthy 1st world country.
We have to help those people as a high priority.

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Auggie

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Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it?
Reply #66 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:03pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:59pm:

Auggie wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:51pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2017 at 10:08am:

Quote:

The minimum amount $8000 is less than the full amount of Newstart Allowance of approx. $12k per annum.

Perhaps he thinks that conforming to his strange ideological stance about fairness would make up for the missing $4000 and the inability of the government to provide other services.

FD,
The cost of living is so high & the lousy newstart so hard to get
that it's no wonder we have streets full of crime & home invasions.

No one is safe anymore - even in their own home.

The fact is that there are not enough jobs to go around
& those without jobs need to resort to crime in order to live.

So, you think that the Government should give people $50,000 per year in guaranteed income?

Second, are you justifying murder on the basis of poverty? There are plenty of poor people who don't commit crimes. It's a choice. It's not like these people are starving.

They are starving - people are living under bridges -
I can't image how awful it would be to be in their position.
There's no excuse for this in a wealthy 1st world country.
We have to help those people as a high priority.

You're seriously implying that these people are living in the same conditions and level of deprivation that is experienced in Sub-Saharan Africa? If so, that's just stupid.

Bobby, why are people homeless? Why aren't they relying on their families or friends?

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Auggie

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Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it?
Reply #67 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:04pm

freediver wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:55pm:

Anyone who can't sponge of the system in Australia isn't trying hard enough. Which is also why they don't have a job. Being on the dole should not be easy. It should create a strong incentive to get a job.

Auggie wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 7:10pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2017 at 9:22pm:

Quote:

I should have said that the majority of people will be better off.

Because it is the truth, or because it is easier to get away with?

Does it matter?

Not to you apparently. But it will when you try to reduce people's net income.

So, you think that everyone should earn the same income irrespective of talent or productivity?

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The Progressive President

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47473 At my desk.	Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it? Reply #68 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:05pm Quote: They are starving - people are living under bridges - Because they are too drunk, high or crazy to fill out a form. Not because of lack of handouts. They are not starving, BTW.
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Bobby.

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Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it?
Reply #69 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:06pm

Auggie wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:03pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:59pm:

Auggie wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:51pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2017 at 10:08am:

Quote:

The minimum amount $8000 is less than the full amount of Newstart Allowance of approx. $12k per annum.

Perhaps he thinks that conforming to his strange ideological stance about fairness would make up for the missing $4000 and the inability of the government to provide other services.

FD,
The cost of living is so high & the lousy newstart so hard to get
that it's no wonder we have streets full of crime & home invasions.

No one is safe anymore - even in their own home.

The fact is that there are not enough jobs to go around
& those without jobs need to resort to crime in order to live.

So, you think that the Government should give people $50,000 per year in guaranteed income?

Second, are you justifying murder on the basis of poverty? There are plenty of poor people who don't commit crimes. It's a choice. It's not like these people are starving.

They are starving - people are living under bridges -
I can't image how awful it would be to be in their position.
There's no excuse for this in a wealthy 1st world country.
We have to help those people as a high priority.

You're seriously implying that these people are living in the same conditions and level of deprivation that is experienced in Sub-Saharan Africa? If so, that's just stupid.

Bobby, why are people homeless? Why aren't they relying on their families or friends?

Families don't want to know you when you have no money -
this is a dog eat dog jungle that we live in.

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Bobby.

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Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it?
Reply #70 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:07pm

freediver wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:05pm:

Quote:

They are starving - people are living under bridges -

Because they are too drunk, high or crazy to fill out a form. Not because of lack of handouts. They are not starving, BTW.

Where have you been FD?

I've seen plenty of dirty, filthy, starving, beggars in Melbourne.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47473 At my desk.	Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it? Reply #71 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:09pm They were not starving. They were hungover. Ever seen a fat junkie?
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Auggie

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Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it?
Reply #72 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:11pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:03pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:59pm:

Auggie wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 8:51pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2017 at 10:08am:

Quote:

The minimum amount $8000 is less than the full amount of Newstart Allowance of approx. $12k per annum.

Perhaps he thinks that conforming to his strange ideological stance about fairness would make up for the missing $4000 and the inability of the government to provide other services.

FD,
The cost of living is so high & the lousy newstart so hard to get
that it's no wonder we have streets full of crime & home invasions.

No one is safe anymore - even in their own home.

The fact is that there are not enough jobs to go around
& those without jobs need to resort to crime in order to live.

So, you think that the Government should give people $50,000 per year in guaranteed income?

Second, are you justifying murder on the basis of poverty? There are plenty of poor people who don't commit crimes. It's a choice. It's not like these people are starving.

They are starving - people are living under bridges -
I can't image how awful it would be to be in their position.
There's no excuse for this in a wealthy 1st world country.
We have to help those people as a high priority.

You're seriously implying that these people are living in the same conditions and level of deprivation that is experienced in Sub-Saharan Africa? If so, that's just stupid.

Bobby, why are people homeless? Why aren't they relying on their families or friends?

Families don't want to know you when you have no money -
this is a dog eat dog jungle that we live in.

That's bullshit! Sir Bobby. There are plenty of decent families out there.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95495 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it? Reply #73 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:12pm freediver wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:09pm: They were not starving. They were hungover. Ever seen a fat junkie? FD, they are on drugs because their life is so awful that they can either commit suicide or take drugs to feel better for a few hours.
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freediver

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Re: Negative Income Tax: would you support it?
Reply #74 - Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:29pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:12pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2017 at 9:09pm:

They were not starving. They were hungover. Ever seen a fat junkie?

FD,
they are on drugs because their life is so awful that
they can either commit suicide or take drugs to feel better for a few hours.

It's called addiction Bobby. Nasty stuff, but not the same thing as starvation, and not something you can cure with $50. That usually just makes it worse. Anyone who is genuinely hungry gets fed, if they can string to words together to ask for food.

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