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Is racism encouraged? (Read 4611 times)
Lord Herbert
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #180 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:08pm
 
The problem is that we have Australians who are so eager to ingratiate with foreigners for the presumed gratitude and approval this elicits from them that they won't be satisfied until Australian society resembles an international airport lounge - which is pretty much what Sydney looks like today.

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Lord Herbert
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #181 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:09pm
 
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #182 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:11pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:08pm:
The problem is that we have Australians who are so eager to ingratiate with foreigners for the presumed gratitude and approval this elicits from them that they won't be satisfied until Australian society resembles an international airport lounge - which is pretty much what Sydney looks like today.



Like Turdfull, and every other Politician in Canberra?
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And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs..yuk.  ~ GordyL.
Nicole Page 2016 exhorts that we kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
Post # 14 here ~  http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=14
 
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Sad Kangaroo
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #183 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:42pm
 
Valkie wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 7:20pm:
Islam is not a race...........it is a political CULT

I stand by this statement.
I dont care what colour, race or where you are from, it matters not.


Perhaps my rant being big enough to necessitate 2 posts scared you away from reading it.

The racism that I was referring to was straight up racism.  Nothing to do with religion or Islam.  That's a type of bigotry all of it's own.  You seem to be the only one arguing this and you're arguing with yourself.

The Muslim faith is a tricky subject.  It's complicated at best.  I personally have a problem with all religion and especially those who indoctrinate the weak with it, and those who take it a step further and use it to control others, radicalise the brainwashed and commit atrocities in it's name.

For centuries throughout our history this was done by all religions, including Christianity.  They had somewhat of a re-branding with the New Testament, but there are still plenty of Old Testament people who use that to justify ridiculous claims such as a Husband cannot rape his wife because in the eyes of the lord, in marriage she does not have the right to refuse her body to her husband or the justification of slavery, even some of the horrible things we see in the Christian African nations when it comes to homosexuals.

Some say Islam is no worse than other religions, but I can't agree with that either.  If people took a literal interpretation of the Christian books and it was enforced as the law of the land, such as Sharia Law, and there were no secular balance things would be horrible, but a different kind of horrible.

Thankfully like Christianity, the majority of educated practicing Muslims pick and choose what parts of their texts they adhere to and in the western world, they reject those that would put them in jail if they didn't.

But it took Christianity/Catholicism centuries to get where they are now from their "dark ages" and they're still full of kiddie fiddlers and men trying to hole power over women.  An enlightened society comes from education and understanding.  Taking an uninformed stance against Islam or any religion is, on a philosophical level, no better than those extremists who commit horrific acts in the name of an extreme interpretation of any given faith.

(Obviously in the real world, the two cannot be compared)

I've read both Testaments and an english translation of the Quran and while I feel "more informed", I still only have part of the story, part of the picture.  It's what people who abuse their interpretations of it that cause the most damage that I have the greatest knowledge gaps. 

You could cherry pick and take all the good for the Quran, live you life by those rules and you would be one of the better people in the world.

But when you have people calling for the death of those who draw their prophet, or stone women accused of being adulterous, the key is what those in a position of "religious power" abuse their texts and push their ideas of control of others and this only highlights the complexity of the issues.

I wouldn't go as far as calling Islam a cult no more than I would call any other religion a cult, BUT, the extremists who try to justify their actions with religion, they and their followers/indoctrinated are acting whether willingly or unknowingly as a political cult much like how you've described it.

But those who practice their faith and are good people far outweigh the extremists.  We should be empowering them, especially the women, to speak out against the extremists, not bundling them all together in such an ignorant fashion.  That will only make things worse.

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I will get a short post from Bwyannnn calling me a islamaphobe and telling people to move along.
This is simply because he cannot dispute the truth, so its fingers in the ears and na na na na na na


I won't call you an islamaphobe and I honestly believe your position comes from a genuine concern, but you could certainly benefit from informing yourself better on the subject and not take such a primitive stance on such a complex issue.

Again however, that is not the topic of this thread.

Unfortunately, on topic, if this thread was a honeypot to prove or disprove the original question, that being do these forums, their mods and their owners encourage racism, given some of the outright hate and vitriol posted and let remain in this thread alone, I'm worried for what the answer may be.

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« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:54pm by Sad Kangaroo »  
 
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #184 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:49pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:08pm:
The problem is that we have Australians who are so eager to ingratiate with foreigners for the presumed gratitude and approval this elicits from them that they won't be satisfied until Australian society resembles an international airport lounge - which is pretty much what Sydney looks like today.



But you're assuming that we have a long standing culture of our own.  I've had trouble getting people to even tell me what they consider "Australian Cuisine" let alone culture.  Unless you talk of Indigenous Australians we don't go back that far and what we go back to isn't much to write home about.

I love my country and I'm not trying to be unAustralian, but think about the question for a minute.  It's not one easily answered.

That's no excuse to abandon everything and introduce Sharia Law or anything, but if anything what has made Australia great over the years has been the people who've been here and done great things, even if it's just for their own families or communities.  Since the abolition of the White Australia policy and our intake of refugees over the decades the benefits of our multiculturalism have outweighed the teething problems.

But there will always be those who don't like change and yes, we shouldn't forget who we are, but we need to know who we are first.

If it's a bunch of racist assholes who will blame everyone else but themselves for all their problems then perhaps it's time to be unAustralian. 
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #185 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:57pm
 
Sad Kangaroo wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:42pm:
Unfortunately, on topic, if this thread was a honeypot to prove or disprove the original question, that being do these forums, their mods and their owners encourage racism, given some of the outright hate and vitriol posted and let remain in this thread alone, I'm worried for what the answer may be.



I'm a mod and I'd like you to show if I have encouraged it. I do not like racism but as I stated in the beginning, speaking for myself, I'm not the thought police and have no intention of moving that way. All voices should be heard, none silenced, and let the cards fall where they may.

edit: I could be classed as a culturalist. I do not believe all cultures are equal.
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« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:04pm by Setanta »  

nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #186 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:57pm
 
Sad Kangaroo wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:07pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 8:59pm:
Why is it OK to encourage ethnic immigrants to keep their own culture but not your white Queenslanders, who also want to keep their own white Australian culture?


If you think white Australians "ethnic identity" is to be intolerant and racist then I'd only be wasting my time trying to explain how utterly stupid the notion of your false equivalency is.

That said, if someone is choosing to live here and be an Australian they should be expected to integrate into our society, but there should always be a place for them to keep their culture and their beliefs so long as they are within the law (aka no child brides, multiple wives, prevention of girls being educated etc).

There is a sane middle ground, you don't always have to assume those who don't agree with you are as far off the scale as you are, but in the opposite direction...

Quote:
Why is it it OK to have ethnic identity but not a nationalist Australian identity?

Every identity is encouraged except the main one. Why?


I think you're projecting your own fears and insecurities to the greater population.

Edit: Left out quote



You are avoiding the question by arbitrarily painting a host culture that wants to preserve itself as racist and another, incoming one that wants to perpetuate itself in a new and essentially different culture as not racist and ignorant and fearful and the rest.

I think if you come here from the other side of the world and want to keep playing as if you were still over there and the culture here was not worth every effort of assimilataing into - even though you were not forced to come here -, well, then you are a worse racist than the locals who just want you to fit in and not protest your dog's balls ('"sticking out like...') pride .






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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #187 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:05pm
 
Sad Kangaroo wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:49pm:
Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:08pm:
The problem is that we have Australians who are so eager to ingratiate with foreigners for the presumed gratitude and approval this elicits from them that they won't be satisfied until Australian society resembles an international airport lounge - which is pretty much what Sydney looks like today.



But you're assuming that we have a long standing culture of our own.  I've had trouble getting people to even tell me what they consider "Australian Cuisine" let alone culture.  Unless you talk of Indigenous Australians we don't go back that far and what we go back to isn't much to write home about.

I love my country and I'm not trying to be unAustralian, but think about the question for a minute.  It's not one easily answered.

That's no excuse to abandon everything and introduce Sharia Law or anything, but if anything what has made Australia great over the years has been the people who've been here and done great things, even if it's just for their own families or communities.  Since the abolition of the White Australia policy and our intake of refugees over the decades the benefits of our multiculturalism have outweighed the teething problems.

But there will always be those who don't like change and yes, we shouldn't forget who we are, but we need to know who we are first.

If it's a bunch of racist assholes who will blame everyone else but themselves for all their problems then perhaps it's time to be unAustralian. 



This is just silly. 

You assert a bunch of untestable platitudes (multiculturalism has more benefits than drawbacks) and at the same time wonder what Australian culture is or where it comes from or what has made it what it is - something that is very much more evident and obvious than your silly, empty platitudes about multiculturalism.

And you do this in a very banal and long-winded way.
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #188 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:15pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:57pm:
You are avoiding the question by arbitrarily painting a host culture that wants to preserve itself as racist and another, incoming one that wants to perpetuate itself in a new and essentially different culture as not racist and ignorant and fearful and the rest.


See I didn't do that, and I even suggested that you'd not understand an answer even if I gave one, which I did and you didn't:

Sad Kangaroo wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:07pm:
That said, if someone is choosing to live here and be an Australian they should be expected to integrate into our society, but there should always be a place for them to keep their culture and their beliefs so long as they are within the law (aka no child brides, multiple wives, prevention of girls being educated etc).

There is a sane middle ground, you don't always have to assume those who don't agree with you are as far off the scale as you are, but in the opposite direction...


Try reading it again.

Frank wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:57pm:
I think if you come here from the other side of the world and want to keep playing as if you were still over there and the culture here was not worth every effort of assimilataing into - even though you were not forced to come here -, well, then you are a worse racist than the locals who just want you to fit in and not protest your dog's balls ('"sticking out like...') pride .


I don't think you know what racist means...

I agree that there are problems with people choosing to live here even if they've done so legally who don't make any attempt at integration, but it sounds like, unless you didn't read what I wrote, that you want them to completely abandon their own culture and replace it with ours.

And you want to call them racist?
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #189 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:16pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:05pm:
This is just silly. 

You assert a bunch of untestable platitudes (multiculturalism has more benefits than drawbacks) and at the same time wonder what Australian culture is or where it comes from or what has made it what it is - something that is very much more evident and obvious than your silly, empty platitudes about multiculturalism.

And you do this in a very banal and long-winded way.


I'll try to keep things short and sweet if that helps, what part of our culture is at risk?
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #190 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:31pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 4:03pm:
Want to bet on that?

I remember travelling through India many years ago when the passenger on the train beside me noticed me watching some kids in a paddy field.  "If you drank that water like they are, you'd be dead in a day or two."   Their resistance is many times higher to diseases we have all but eliminated from our societies.  Disease resistance is evolutionary but on a micro-scale, not the macro which is what is being discussed here.   Individuals develop it, societies develop it but they also lose it once the disease is eliminated from the environment.

No one has developed an evolutionary resistance to Plague, to Rabies, to Smallpox, etc. UnSubRocky.   Vaccination has helped but it is an artificial resistance, introduced artificially into our species from outside.    Today we are facing the anti-Vaxxers who want to destroy that.

800 years ago, the environment was dirty, unhygienic and rife with diseases we have large eliminated from our purvey.  We have cleaned up our homes, our workplaces and ourselves.   It has had little if anything to do with "evolution" as Darwin defined it.    Roll Eyes


Every year, the elderly and aborigines are asked to get influenza vaccines. Remember, aborigines are not considered European. Many aborigines are biracial with admixture of European genetics. But because of a low/modest immune resistance to disease, aborigines are encouraged to get vaccinations.

Only in the last week, the entire town of Rockhampton was on alert to a measles epidemic potential from a person who walked in an infected state through one of the main shopping centres. I had measles when I was 15 years old, and was not concerned due to my immunity from it since then. But I can bet that there are those out there who are not of my racial background who would have died from measles.

I spoke to an Indonesian man, many years ago. He told me that the cold virus was such a near non-existent threat to Indonesia, that Indonesians only get an outbreak during the southern hemisphere winter when Australian tourists (mostly) cough and splutter on planes and at tourists resorts and through parts of the cities. Because Indonesians have an outdoors culture, and like to keep their homes breezy all year around (basically no winter there). But even a disease that spreads through closed spaces can be devastating in Indonesia. Citizenry there can be crippled by the common cold.

I have had all kinds of illnesses growing up. Last week, I got the symptoms of a cold sore virus that quickly dissipated. Learned several years ago to treat it with lime juice. Did not have a problem since then until last week. I bet that people around the world, even those with the same kind of access to health services are unable to fight off disease as well as people of my own racial background.
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #191 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:32pm
 
Gordon wrote on Apr 16th, 2017 at 7:52pm:
This place is much better without you.
When's your next hospital stay?


Not often that the first reply is just to abuse the poster of the topic ?

Maybe have a think about how it reflects .........?
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #192 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:34pm
 
Quote:
Is racism encouraged?


When it is exploited in order to win elections it is almost certain to spread through society at all levels.

It is particularly strong here.
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #193 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:38pm
 
Setanta wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:57pm:
I'm a mod and I'd like you to show if I have encouraged it. I do not like racism but as I stated in the beginning, speaking for myself, I'm not the thought police and have no intention of moving that way. All voices should be heard, none silenced, and let the cards fall where they may.

edit: I could be classed as a culturalist. I do not believe all cultures are equal.


Thanks for the reply. 

My understanding of the rules is that gratuitous attack on a racial group are not allowed.  I'm not saying that any exchange of ideas should be restricted upon the topic of race, or policies dealing with race or migration, in fact doing so would be a disservice to everyone here.

But when people use terms like "Head N---- In Charge" (or Ex-HNIC now) when talking about Obama, casually using racial slurs like chincs or wanting to smell radiated yello flesh in the morning, "squint lovers", gooks etc etc in the context of attacking other posters or their family, and all of that doesn't get moderated, one has to wonder have these boards grown too big for the current mod team, or is this sort of thing condoned?

I'm not accusing the mod team of anything, far from it, I just wanted to know where the board stands on this in general.

I'm all for free speech, but people should be held to account for the things they say.

I would agree with you on the notion of cultures too.
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Re: Is racism encouraged?
Reply #194 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:52pm
 
Sad Kangaroo wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:38pm:
Setanta wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:57pm:
I'm a mod and I'd like you to show if I have encouraged it. I do not like racism but as I stated in the beginning, speaking for myself, I'm not the thought police and have no intention of moving that way. All voices should be heard, none silenced, and let the cards fall where they may.

edit: I could be classed as a culturalist. I do not believe all cultures are equal.


Thanks for the reply. 

My understanding of the rules is that gratuitous attack on a racial group are not allowed.  I'm not saying that any exchange of ideas should be restricted upon the topic of race, or policies dealing with race or migration, in fact doing so would be a disservice to everyone here.

But when people use terms like "Head N---- In Charge" (or Ex-HNIC now) when talking about Obama, casually using racial slurs like chincs or wanting to smell radiated yello flesh in the morning, "squint lovers", gooks etc etc in the context of attacking other posters or their family, and all of that doesn't get moderated, one has to wonder have these boards grown too big for the current mod team, or is this sort of thing condoned?

I'm not accusing the mod team of anything, far from it, I just wanted to know where the board stands on this in general.

I'm all for free speech, but people should be held to account for the things they say.

I would agree with you on the notion of cultures too.


I would take the racial abuse rule as against other members rather than making comments that others may consider racist in general. To be honest I haven't seen much of that towards members.

edit: I see the rule you mean now. Unfortunately there are the rules up the top bar and the rules in feedback.
Quote:
Note that race is treated differently from religion, which is a matter of choice and is open to the same criticism as political ideology.


Well I can say there is too much for me to go through, unless it's reported I'm unlikely to see most of what goes on.
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« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2017 at 11:04pm by Setanta »  

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