Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum... (Read 5016 times)
President Elect, The Mechanic
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17501
Gender: male
Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Apr 12th, 2017 at 7:58am
 
Quote:
Victorian Opposition Leader Matthew Guy promises state’s toughest ever sentences

Mr Guy pledged thugs who commit further violent crimes would face tough new minimum sentences if the Coalition was elected next year.

If elected, it would be the toughest sentencing regime in Victorian history.

Under the Coalition’s plan, mandatory minimum jail sentences would apply to 11 crimes, including rape, aggravated burglary, and murder, where the criminal has an earlier conviction for a violent offence.

Murderers convicted of a previous violent offence would automatically face at least 20 years behind bars.

Violent criminals who are subsequently convicted of a home invasion or aggravated robbery would face a 10-year minimum sentence. For rape, a 15-year term would apply.

Mr Guy told the Herald Sun it was time to stop giving criminals endless chances.

“A government I lead will make Victoria safe again,” the Liberal leader said.

“To stop this crime wave we need mandatory sentencing and mandatory jail times. That’s what I will introduce.

“Victorians have had enough of the Andrews Government going soft on crime.

“It’s time for a new approach — a tough approach.”

Police Association Victoria secretary Wayne Gatt said it was high time serial offenders are properly dealt with.

“While there is always an important place for rehabilitation, it is high time we accept that the worst offenders — those who time again threaten, hurt and terrorise our community are laughing in the face of courts when they are given sentences that fail to meet community expectations,’’ he said.

“It’s one thing to get a second chance, but when you get a third, fourth or fifth the time for chances has run out.

“When crook’s repeatedly commit offences, creating real victims, they deserve real sentences.”

“At the end of the day, public safety is paramount,’’ he said.

Three-year minimum terms for aggravated carjackings and aggravated home invasions were introduced last year in response to gang attacks and a suburban crime wave. The Coalition would lift those to 10 years for a second offence.

Juvenile criminals would face the tough new approach if they went on to commit further violent crimes as adults.

Minimum terms ranging from six to 10 years would be introduced for crimes including intentionally or recklessly causing serious injury and for offences of gross violence.

Mr Guy will unveil his plan today with shadow attorney-general John Pesutto, alongside victims of crime.

Mr Pesutto said the law changes were necessary, but were a major step.

“Mandatory minimum jail times for violent reoffenders would be one of the biggest sentencing reforms in Victoria’s history,” he said.


Shadow attorney-general John Pesutto says tougher sentencing laws are necessary, but a major step. Picture: Paul Loughnan


Mr Guy has pointed to soaring crime rates, which have increased by 20 per cent in the past two years under the Andrews Labor Government, as evidence of growing lawlessness. An extra 46,602 victims.



Back to top
 

Q

The STORM has arrived
Every Dog Has Its Day...
Dark to Light.
Sheep no more.
 
IP Logged
 
President Elect, The Mechanic
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17501
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #1 - Apr 12th, 2017 at 7:59am
 
...  Got My Vote ... Smiley
Back to top
 

Q

The STORM has arrived
Every Dog Has Its Day...
Dark to Light.
Sheep no more.
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #2 - Apr 12th, 2017 at 8:31am
 
they seem to spend an inordinate amount of time on BAIL in Victoria...seems to me they could do with getting that right first
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Lord Herbert
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 34441
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #3 - Apr 12th, 2017 at 8:32pm
 
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 7:59am:
  Got My Vote ... Smiley




All I had to read were the words 'minimum sentencing' instead of the duplicitous 'maximum sentencing'.

Let's hope this mood of wanting sentences to better represent public expectations, spreads to other states.

That lovely young Irish lady in Melbourne was raped and murdered as a direct result of 'progressive sympathies by a court magistrate.

link
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Its time
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Boot libs out

Posts: 25639
Gender: female
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #4 - Apr 12th, 2017 at 8:34pm
 
Jobsun growth , debt and deficit , stop the waste , grown ups in charge , yes mechanic , it's time to stop the bullshit
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 57065
Here
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #5 - Apr 12th, 2017 at 8:36pm
 
It would seem to me that having a mandatory 15 for rape would be a huge incentive to make sure they don't testify ?  May not be such a great idea.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #6 - Apr 12th, 2017 at 11:14pm
 
Mandatory sentencing is a BAD idea. If the sentences for these offences is much the same as the sentences for murder, guess what's likely to happen?

Instead of this lazy "tough on crime" approach, why not get tough on the CAUSES of crime?
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Lord Herbert
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 34441
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #7 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 6:52am
 
Dnarever wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 8:36pm:
It would seem to me that having a mandatory 15 for rape would be a huge incentive to make sure they don't testify ?  May not be such a great idea.


There is an argument that if rape and paedophile activity sentences are known to be very severe by perpetrators this then provides incentive for murdering their victims so they can't testify.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Lord Herbert
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 34441
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #8 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 6:59am
 
Bam wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 11:14pm:
Mandatory sentencing is a BAD idea. If the sentences for these offences is much the same as the sentences for murder, guess what's likely to happen?

Instead of this lazy "tough on crime" approach, why not get tough on the CAUSES of crime?


We've been hearing this vote-catching 'tough on crime' rhetoric for decades - but it has never materialised.

Mandatory sentencing guidelines is the way to go because it over-rides the lenient sentences of the bleeding-heart magistrates who have an emotional need to feel liked and appreciated by the criminals who are brought before them for sentencing.

Three times and you're IN for a long stretch is also the way to go.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #9 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 7:00am
 
Bam wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 11:14pm:
Mandatory sentencing is a BAD idea. If the sentences for these offences is much the same as the sentences for murder, guess what's likely to happen?

Instead of this lazy "tough on crime" approach, why not get tough on the CAUSES of crime?



what do you suggest bam??...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
juliar
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 22966
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #10 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 7:50am
 
Well what else would you expect from a Greenie led Socialist "govt"  ?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #11 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 8:55am
 
cods wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 7:00am:
Bam wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 11:14pm:
Mandatory sentencing is a BAD idea. If the sentences for these offences is much the same as the sentences for murder, guess what's likely to happen?

Instead of this lazy "tough on crime" approach, why not get tough on the CAUSES of crime?

what do you suggest bam??...

We need to get tough on the particular crimes associated with supplying methamphetamine. This is a dangerous addictive drug that is causing a lot of harm.

Many of these crimes are committed by people who are high on this drug. If the methamphetamine suppliers were put away for a long time and subjected to having all of their assets compulsorily seized as the proceeds of crime, it would cut the crime rate.

Anyone who has supplied methamphetamine to someone who has then committed crimes while high on the drug should be charged with facilitating a criminal offence.

Another thing that is needed is to make it easier to gain access to drug rehabilitation, especially for methamphetamine addicts. Not enough money is being spent on this and the waiting time is far too long. If we increase funding to these services, we can help people to get off this drug sooner. How is it to be funded? By seizing the assets of methamphetamine suppliers, see above.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
salad in
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 5941
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #12 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 8:58am
 
Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...


Sorry Mr Mechanic but after a sustained 8 hour session of masturbation our pollies come out with the most puerile gibberish. Cast your mind back to the fake outrage when our pollies were introducing a fine for carrying a knife. Some pollies (or maybe even journos) had to remind our Premier that the fine for defacing a library book was more than the suggested fine for carrying a knife.

Phukwits inhabit our parliament houses.
Back to top
 

The ALP, the progressive party, the party of ideas, the workers' friend, is the only Australian political party to roast four young Australians in roof cavities. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!
 
IP Logged
 
salad in
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 5941
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #13 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 9:07am
 
And one more thing. BEFORE any changes are made an overseas fact-finding-mission must be undertaken. That mission should include visits to Rome, Vienna, Paris, London, New York, and of course Brussels. We must find out what the Euros would do when confronted with crime. The visit just may include this:

Don Carlo - Royal Opera House (2017)


Description

Bertrand de Billy conducts a cast led by Bryan Hymel and Krassimira Stoyanova in Nicholas Hytner’s acclaimed production of Verdi’s opera on love, ambition and intrigue in 16th-century Spain.

https://www.opera-online.com/en/items/productions/don-carlo-royal-opera-house-2017-2017

Being a politician is a hard life.
Back to top
 

The ALP, the progressive party, the party of ideas, the workers' friend, is the only Australian political party to roast four young Australians in roof cavities. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79579
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #14 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 9:10am
 
Public pillorying seems to work.... into the stocks with ye, laddie/lassie...  think of the profit the fruit sellers could make from out of date fruit...  (little bit 'ard - but 'ey!  Coupla Days!)

A win-win all round.... might even get the Mussos onboard for a ritual stone-fruiting of offenders...
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
President Elect, The Mechanic
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17501
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #15 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 9:16am
 
Bam wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 11:14pm:
Mandatory sentencing is a BAD idea. If the sentences for these offences is much the same as the sentences for murder, guess what's likely to happen?

Instead of this lazy "tough on crime" approach, why not get tough on the CAUSES of crime?


Yes bam 💥

And the Cause of repeated crime is the lack of punishment/deterrent
Back to top
 

Q

The STORM has arrived
Every Dog Has Its Day...
Dark to Light.
Sheep no more.
 
IP Logged
 
Lord Herbert
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 34441
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #16 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 11:32am
 
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 9:16am:
Bam wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 11:14pm:
Mandatory sentencing is a BAD idea. If the sentences for these offences is much the same as the sentences for murder, guess what's likely to happen?

Instead of this lazy "tough on crime" approach, why not get tough on the CAUSES of crime?


Yes bam 💥

And the Cause of repeated crime is the lack of punishment/deterrent


Exactly.

For some ethnic communities ~ Abos, Muslims, and Pacific Islanders ~ jails are full of their mates and relatives, with the consequence that jail-time holds no fears for them.

And Mothra-types arrive at these jails every day of the week to pour their hearts out to them as Do-Gooders in various welfare and teaching roles.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #17 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:11pm
 
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 9:16am:
Bam wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 11:14pm:
Mandatory sentencing is a BAD idea. If the sentences for these offences is much the same as the sentences for murder, guess what's likely to happen?

Instead of this lazy "tough on crime" approach, why not get tough on the CAUSES of crime?


Yes bam 💥

And the Cause of repeated crime is the lack of punishment/deterrent

Incorrect.

The problem with you conservatives is that you live a very sheltered and comfortable suburban life that shields you from what's really going on in the world. You think all people committing crimes are rational people who would be deterred simply by increasing the sentences. Not all people are rational! Once you see just how irrational people get when they are high on methamphetamine, you would realise that this idea simply will not work.

We have a problem with methamphetamine addiction and this drug is one of the main causes of an increase in the crime rate. No amount of deterrence will prevent such drug-fuelled crimes.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #18 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:31pm
 
Bam wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 8:55am:
cods wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 7:00am:
Bam wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 11:14pm:
Mandatory sentencing is a BAD idea. If the sentences for these offences is much the same as the sentences for murder, guess what's likely to happen?

Instead of this lazy "tough on crime" approach, why not get tough on the CAUSES of crime?

what do you suggest bam??...

We need to get tough on the particular crimes associated with supplying methamphetamine. This is a dangerous addictive drug that is causing a lot of harm.

Many of these crimes are committed by people who are high on this drug. If the methamphetamine suppliers were put away for a long time and subjected to having all of their assets compulsorily seized as the proceeds of crime, it would cut the crime rate.

Anyone who has supplied methamphetamine to someone who has then committed crimes while high on the drug should be charged with facilitating a criminal offence.

Another thing that is needed is to make it easier to gain access to drug rehabilitation, especially for methamphetamine addicts. Not enough money is being spent on this and the waiting time is far too long. If we increase funding to these services, we can help people to get off this drug sooner. How is it to be funded? By seizing the assets of methamphetamine suppliers, see above.



true   double up the sentencing....why dont we employ more people to search containers.. I mean 1 in 20 is searched pathetic... .. we can do better than this I am sure..

I do not understand why we do not have search or sniffer dogs at jails....we know our prisons are crawling with drugs...a dog would have to be worth 5 people surely...

people caught bringing the stuff in throw away the key..and take all their goods and chattels..every last thing...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
gfresh
Full Member
***
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 213
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #19 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 6:19pm
 
When a person is about to murder someone else, the tend to not stop and think  "Mmm, I could go to jail for this  . . ."
Crazy sentences just mean increasing YOUR taxes to pay for incarceration.
If you want the root cause, it comes down to ignorance, lack of education and financial inequality.
When your parents had nothing, you have nothing, no education, bad/no job no prospects.
I am guessing you might resent the life that you were born into !
How do you punish someone who has nothing ?






Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #20 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 9:13pm
 
gfresh wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 6:19pm:
When a person is about to murder someone else, the tend to not stop and think  "Mmm, I could go to jail for this  . . ."
Crazy sentences just mean increasing YOUR taxes to pay for incarceration.
If you want the root cause, it comes down to ignorance, lack of education and financial inequality.
When your parents had nothing, you have nothing, no education, bad/no job no prospects.
I am guessing you might resent the life that you were born into !
How do you punish someone who has nothing ?

The Liberals want to increase sentences for various crimes.

The Liberals are also in favour of privatising prisons.

Am I being too cynical to suggest a connection?
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Its time
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Boot libs out

Posts: 25639
Gender: female
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #21 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 9:20pm
 
Bam wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 9:13pm:
gfresh wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 6:19pm:
When a person is about to murder someone else, the tend to not stop and think  "Mmm, I could go to jail for this  . . ."
Crazy sentences just mean increasing YOUR taxes to pay for incarceration.
If you want the root cause, it comes down to ignorance, lack of education and financial inequality.
When your parents had nothing, you have nothing, no education, bad/no job no prospects.
I am guessing you might resent the life that you were born into !
How do you punish someone who has nothing ?

The Liberals want to increase sentences for various crimes.

The Liberals are also in favour of privatising prisons.

Am I being too cynical to suggest a connection?


No you're dead right , even their policies like cutting dole for 6 months inevitably would lead to increased crime if they could slip it past us , after Manus they would've been rubbing their filthy grubby parasitic hands together at the costs associated incarcerating people.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
stunspore
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 5088
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #22 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 9:21pm
 
Bam wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 9:13pm:
gfresh wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 6:19pm:
When a person is about to murder someone else, the tend to not stop and think  "Mmm, I could go to jail for this  . . ."
Crazy sentences just mean increasing YOUR taxes to pay for incarceration.
If you want the root cause, it comes down to ignorance, lack of education and financial inequality.
When your parents had nothing, you have nothing, no education, bad/no job no prospects.
I am guessing you might resent the life that you were born into !
How do you punish someone who has nothing ?

The Liberals want to increase sentences for various crimes.

The Liberals are also in favour of privatising prisons.

Am I being too cynical to suggest a connection?


I'm waiting for less BS threads - I mean - how does eating a hotdog or drink beer matters?  How about fixing the economy like you were voted for.  Because if you can't, get lost and let someone else takeover then.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79579
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #23 - Apr 13th, 2017 at 10:48pm
 
Bam wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 1:11pm:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 9:16am:
Bam wrote on Apr 12th, 2017 at 11:14pm:
Mandatory sentencing is a BAD idea. If the sentences for these offences is much the same as the sentences for murder, guess what's likely to happen?

Instead of this lazy "tough on crime" approach, why not get tough on the CAUSES of crime?


Yes bam 💥

And the Cause of repeated crime is the lack of punishment/deterrent

Incorrect.

The problem with you conservatives is that you live a very sheltered and comfortable suburban life that shields you from what's really going on in the world. You think all people committing crimes are rational people who would be deterred simply by increasing the sentences. Not all people are rational! Once you see just how irrational people get when they are high on methamphetamine, you would realise that this idea simply will not work.

We have a problem with methamphetamine addiction and this drug is one of the main causes of an increase in the crime rate. No amount of deterrence will prevent such drug-fuelled crimes.



Many of those:-

"conservatives that you live a very sheltered and comfortable suburban life"

.. are not rational.  For proof positive look at the results from employing them to run corporations, companies and governments.

Do they have any idea at all?

"And the Cause of repeated crime is the lack of punishment/deterrent "

No - the cause of repeated crime is the lack of genuine opportunity, genuine standards in parenting and by extension society, and in the absolute despair of any meaningful outcome despite effort and input by the individual, the way this nation was founded on a punitive penal colony and the apparently never-ending focus of power as a means to control by a few at the expense of the majority.

No different from the Middle Ages and the reigns of the Robber Barons, nowhere more exemplified than with the Normans, who conquered England and then ultimately found that Justice did not and could not reside in the absolute hands of the conqueror or the one in power... an issue further exemplified by the English Civil War, and a number of socially upward for the majority movements in history.

As a nation, Australia needs to start again at Runnymede.....

https://sites.google.com/site/grappleruniversitypublications/home/department-of-...

Back to top
« Last Edit: Apr 13th, 2017 at 11:23pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
President Elect, The Mechanic
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17501
Gender: male
Re: Time to cut the Bullshit and get Fair Dinkum...
Reply #24 - Apr 16th, 2017 at 8:37pm
 
Bam wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 9:13pm:
gfresh wrote on Apr 13th, 2017 at 6:19pm:
When a person is about to murder someone else, the tend to not stop and think  "Mmm, I could go to jail for this  . . ."
Crazy sentences just mean increasing YOUR taxes to pay for incarceration.
If you want the root cause, it comes down to ignorance, lack of education and financial inequality.
When your parents had nothing, you have nothing, no education, bad/no job no prospects.
I am guessing you might resent the life that you were born into !
How do you punish someone who has nothing ?

The Liberals want to increase sentences for various crimes.

The Liberals are also in favour of privatising prisons.

Am I being too cynical to suggest a connection?


if they put a "repeat" rapist or murderer behind bars for a Minimum of 15 to 20 years then thats 15 to 20 years that we can live without fear of being raped or murdered...

so yeah...

IT DOES WORK... !!
Back to top
 

Q

The STORM has arrived
Every Dog Has Its Day...
Dark to Light.
Sheep no more.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print