Australian Politics Forum - The cracks are starting, the lies continue.

moses

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The cracks are starting, the lies continue.
Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 4:20pm

source

Islam must reform or it won't survive:Imam
Published: 8:33 pm, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 -

First he says:
Islam needs to reform itself of it won't survive, according to Imam Shaikh Mohammad Tawhidi from the South Australia Islamic association-

Then a few paragraphs later the taqiyya kicks in:

Imam Tawhidi claimed the holy Quran doesn't condone killing people who have left the Muslim faith -

'The holy Quran itself doesn't say kill, it says advise them to come back, and if they don't want to come back; don't come back.' -

What a load of crap:

qur'an 4.88: What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].

qur'an 4.89: They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

Pretty clear what the qur'an says about muslims who fall back into disbelief. (seize them and kill them)

We are supposed to take these sneaking prevaricators seriously?

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue. Reply #1 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 4:27pm Why not. We are repeatedly told that Jesus Come Latelys are able over-ride or re-write the Word of God as it is set out in the OT. Why would you deny Muslims the same weird voodoo?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue. Reply #2 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 4:29pm Thats right moses - if any of those dastardly muslims suggests that Islam shouldn't be violent or intolerant - don't let them get away with it. Heaven forbid we have peace loving muslims walking around!
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue. Reply #3 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 4:36pm They don't have to lie and say that the qur'an does not say to kill. It most definitely does say to kill those that fall away from belief.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue. Reply #4 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 4:41pm moses wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 4:36pm: They don't have to lie and say that the qur'an does not say to kill. It most definitely does say to kill those that fall away from belief. So does the Old Testament.
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Mr Hammer Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 25212 Gender:	Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue. Reply #5 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 4:43pm Aussie wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 4:41pm: moses wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 4:36pm: They don't have to lie and say that the qur'an does not say to kill. It most definitely does say to kill those that fall away from belief. So does the Old Testament. But Christians aren't acting upon it. Muslims are.
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moses

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Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue.
Reply #6 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 4:43pm

Quote:

Why not. We are repeatedly told that Jesus Come Latelys are able over-ride or re-write the Word of god as it is set out in the OT. Why would you deny Muslims the same weird voodoo?

&

So does the Old Testament.

The muslim didn't talk about overturning the command to kill, he lied and said it doesn't exist.

As for the N.T. overturning part of the O.T. that's what it is all about. The last perfect sacrifice, no more blood sacrifices, faith overturning inhumane deeds of the law.

So Christianity overturned the ancient Hebrew mosaic law.

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Aussie

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Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue.
Reply #7 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 5:23pm

moses wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 4:43pm:

Quote:

Why not. We are repeatedly told that Jesus Come Latelys are able over-ride or re-write the Word of god as it is set out in the OT. Why would you deny Muslims the same weird voodoo?

&

So does the Old Testament.

The muslim didn't talk about overturning the command to kill, he lied and said it doesn't exist.

As for the N.T. overturning part of the O.T. that's what it is all about. The last perfect sacrifice, no more blood sacrifices, faith overturning inhumane deeds of the law.

So Christianity overturned the ancient Hebrew mosaic law.

Yes I know that is what the Jesus Come Latelys say. That is my point. The 'Happy Clappers' can rewrite the 'Word of God' (you know ~ the Christian God) at their whim, yet you deny today's Muslims the same right.

It's all bullshit as far as I am concerned.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue.
Reply #8 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 6:06pm

moses wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 4:36pm:

They don't have to lie and say that the qur'an does not say to kill.

It most definitely does say to kill those that fall away from belief.

The New Testament most definitely does say that women are inferior and must be subservient to men.

Yet I don't begrudge christian efforts to rationalise those verses and argue for a christianity that respects women as equals. In fact I welcome it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue. Reply #9 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 6:20pm Quote: The New Testament most definitely does say that women are inferior and must be subservient to men. Last time I asked you to prove it you quoted something very different to this Gandalf.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue.
Reply #10 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 6:48pm

wow FD you think I'm bad at reinterpreting the Quran. I'd love to see you explain exactly how this isn't stating the inferiority of women and ordering their submissiveness to men:

Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.
1 Timothy 2:11-15

the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.”
1 Corinthians 14:34-35

For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair …For a man ought not to cover his head; since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.
1 Corinthians 11:2-10

But power to any christian who rejects these commands.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Aussie

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Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue.
Reply #11 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 7:09pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 6:48pm:

wow FD you think I'm bad at reinterpreting the Quran. I'd love to see you explain exactly how this isn't stating the inferiority of women and ordering their submissiveness to men:

Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.
1 Timothy 2:11-15

the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.”
1 Corinthians 14:34-35

For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair …For a man ought not to cover his head; since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.
1 Corinthians 11:2-10

But power to any christian who rejects these commands.

Forgive me Gandalf but that does warrant one of these:

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freediver

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Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue.
Reply #12 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 7:59pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 6:48pm:

wow FD you think I'm bad at reinterpreting the Quran. I'd love to see you explain exactly how this isn't stating the inferiority of women and ordering their submissiveness to men:

Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.
1 Timothy 2:11-15

the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.”
1 Corinthians 14:34-35

For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair …For a man ought not to cover his head; since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.
1 Corinthians 11:2-10

But power to any christian who rejects these commands.

Would a Muslim lie? Surely not.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+11%3A2-10&version=NIV

For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off

It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own[c] head

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« Last Edit: Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 8:07pm by freediver »

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Aussie

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Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue.
Reply #13 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 8:06pm

From your own link, Effendi.....one which fails to address all of what Gandalf posted:

Quote:

1 Corinthians 11:2-10New International Version (NIV)
On Covering the Head in Worship

2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

7 A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own[c] head, because of the angels.

You really want to rest your case on that, Effendi?

Seems to me to be what the Exclusive Bretheran blather.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: The cracks are starting, the lies continue. Reply #14 - Apr 2^nd, 2017 at 8:09pm Aussie, can you comprehend what is happening here? Would it be fair to say that Gandalf started with a verse stating that women ought to have authority over their own head, and turned it into a verse saying they should be punished for not covering their head?
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