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Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia (Read 27607 times)
Gnads
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #75 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:06pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:51pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm:
Quote:
It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority.


Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength.


Overly siplistic, as no doubt Karnal and Gandalf have told you many, many times.

At the time this Surah was ordained, the Muslims had left Mecca where they were persecuted, to arrive in Medina. The Meccans sent an army after them. The small settlement of Muslims in Medina were under siege conditions.

The only option for the Muslims was to either accept domination or fight for their beliefs.


So what you're saying here is the word of Muhammad not Allah.

Because after Muhammad held dominance he slaughtered those in Medina who had taken him in.

You defend the indefensible.

Low down back stabbing SOB.

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Valkie
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #76 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:08pm
 
Terrorists are insane
People who protect, support or otherwise aid ( through deliberate act or deliberate inaction) are also insane.

Apologists, sympathisers, and sycophants are the worst kind of insane, because they know what these mentally ill CULTs do, but still support, aid and promote them.

Its easy to tell them.
Often they have several persona, sometimes male, sometimes female.
Forums see them suporting each other, often loosing track of who they are and using similar syntax and similar wording.

But they are all the same person, attempting to attack an individual using these aliases  which appear to be supporting each other.

This is what insanity is.

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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Gnads
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #77 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:06pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:51pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm:
Quote:
It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority.


Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength.


Overly siplistic, as no doubt Karnal and Gandalf have told you many, many times.

At the time this Surah was ordained, the Muslims had left Mecca where they were persecuted, to arrive in Medina. The Meccans sent an army after them. The small settlement of Muslims in Medina were under siege conditions.

The only option for the Muslims was to either accept domination or fight for their beliefs.


The Meccans sent an army after them because Muhammad was using Medina as a base from which to rob Meccan caravans.

The "accept domination" schtick is BS. The Meccans wanted to stop Muhammad robbing caravans. After one battle that they won, the went back to Mecca rather than pressing their advantage because they thought Muhammad was dead and that would be the end of it. It was not the culture at the time for one religion to dominate another. Muhammad introduced that. It was literally a multicultural and multireligious society.

Had they not been beholden to a giant douchebag, they would have seen the clear option of not robbing Meccan caravans.


It was until Muhammad made up his false doctrine for domination over all others.

It was that very thing that brought about the crusades.
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mothra
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #78 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm
 
But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates.

As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them?

What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all?

Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists?

Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace?

Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority.
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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
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mothra
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #79 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:14pm
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:59pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 3:42pm:
Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 3:00pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:18pm:
Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:13pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:14pm:
Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:04pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:07am:
Did you see Hammer trying to introduce the same verse again as "evidence" (in his unreferenced copy and paste bomb from thereligionofpeace) after it had already been explained three times?

This, and the citing from Gnads, came after i had already addressed it back on the first page.

But Hammer has to get the wooden spoon.

Just goes to show, Islamophobes only read what they want to read ... and what they want to read is the extremist and widely discredited cite, thereligionofpeace.


And you do the exactly the same to suit your agenda. Roll Eyes

Hypocrites much.



Not at all. I read thereligionofpeace. And Jidadwatch .. and all sorts of hateful, extremist propaganda.

How else do you think i am able to discredit it so readily?

the difference between you and i is i don't accept it at face value. I do my research.

That is how you got owned.


You're so full of yourself you'll explode.

You discredit nothing .... the links you post attempt to

And for every link either I or you post there's one to counter it

seems a moot point

bottom line is you wear rose coloured glasses & believe in the tooth fairy.



No Gnads. Wrong on all counts.

There is no proclamation in the Quran for death to apostates. This has been proven. You were wrong. You believed a hate site and didn't do your own research. You got busted. Best you move on to the next point. Holding onto your mistakes is not serving you in any productive way.

And of course there aare always going to be links to counter other links. The trick is to analyse what you read, read the counter argument and discern the truth from that.

The other trick is to go to reputable sources.

I went straight to the Quran.

You went to thereligionofpeace.


Not by you.

https://www.clearquran.com/downloads/quran-english-translation-clearquran-editio...
Quote:
Chapter 47. Muhammad -

3. That is because those who disbelieve follow
falsehoods, while those who believe follow
the truth from their Lord. Allah thus cites for
the people their examples.
4. When you encounter those who disbelieve,
strike at their necks.
Then, when you have
routed them, bind them firmly. Then, either
release them by grace, or by ransom, until
war lays down its burdens. Had Allah willed,
He could have defeated them Himself, but He
thus tests some of you by means of others. As
for those who are killed in the way of Allah,
He will not let their deeds go to waste.


Quote:
Chapter 9. Repentance:-
5. When the Sacred Months have passed, kill
the polytheists wherever you find them
. And
capture them, and besiege them, and lie in
wait for them at every ambush.
14. Fight them. Allah will punish them at your
hands
, and humiliate them, and help you
against them, and heal the hearts of a believing
people.


Quote:
29. Fight those who do not believe in Allah,
nor in the Last Day, nor forbid what Allah
and His Messenger have forbidden, nor abide
by the religion of truth—from among those
who received the Scripture—until they pay
the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.


There is plenty of reference throughout the book that "non-believers" ... and apostates are non believers ..

are to be killed.

You've owned no one & nothing.



Yes, i have proven you quite wrong. Those verses do not apply to apostates. You're stretching. They apply to war.

There is no recommendation that apostates be executed in the Quran.



No they apply to everyone who is a non believer.

The repetition that there is no recommendation regarding apostates is just pedantic.

Something that you & peccarhead excel at.




Gnads, think carefully now, the verses you have quoted apply to war. To enemies. Not apostates.
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mothra
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #80 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:16pm
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:02pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm:
Quote:
It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority.


Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength.



Exactly right..... Muhammad & his mates wrote the Koran ... not Allah.

If only rose coloured glasses would give her a headache

it would be a head well deserved of one.




You think i am arguing that Allah wrote the Quran?

Have you completely lost your mind?

I'm an atheist.
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freediver
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #81 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:16pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm:
But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates.

As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them?

What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all?

Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists?

Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace?

Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority.


Would you like to have a guess at the percentage of Muslims who support the death penalty for apostasy?
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Valkie
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #82 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:17pm
 
Insanity, thy name is ISLAM
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Gnads
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #83 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:19pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm:
But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates.

As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them?

What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all?

Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists?

Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace?

Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority.


There's no such thing .... if there was they would have had a gutfull by now & done more than be mirror men ... looking & talking to it.

In this case words are empty & results non existent.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #84 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:25pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm:
But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates.

As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them?

What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all?

Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists?

Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace?

Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority.


Excuse the pun .... B ut they're here & operating in this country when they've been banned in many countries including Muslim countries.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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mothra
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #85 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:25pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:06pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:51pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm:
Quote:
It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority.


Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength.


Overly siplistic, as no doubt Karnal and Gandalf have told you many, many times.

At the time this Surah was ordained, the Muslims had left Mecca where they were persecuted, to arrive in Medina. The Meccans sent an army after them. The small settlement of Muslims in Medina were under siege conditions.

The only option for the Muslims was to either accept domination or fight for their beliefs.


The Meccans sent an army after them because Muhammad was using Medina as a base from which to rob Meccan caravans.

The "accept domination" schtick is BS. The Meccans wanted to stop Muhammad robbing caravans. After one battle that they won, the went back to Mecca rather than pressing their advantage because they thought Muhammad was dead and that would be the end of it. It was not the culture at the time for one religion to dominate another. Muhammad introduced that. It was literally a multicultural and multireligious society.

Had they not been beholden to a giant douchebag, they would have seen the clear option of not robbing Meccan caravans.



Alas, you probably believe all of that.

An oft cited claim of anti-Muslim hate sites.

History tells a different story though. The Muslims sought to raid caravans to disrupt the enemies war making capabilities.
Mohammed preached against plundering and stopped them.

How many times has Gandalf tried to explain this to you?





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mothra
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #86 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:26pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:16pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm:
But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates.

As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them?

What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all?

Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists?

Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace?

Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority.


Would you like to have a guess at the percentage of Muslims who support the death penalty for apostasy?



Already stated. Read back.
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mothra
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #87 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:27pm
 
Valkie wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:17pm:
Insanity, thy name is ISLAM


Hush now. The grown-ups are talking.
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mothra
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #88 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:30pm
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:19pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:11pm:
But they're not doing "sweet FA" Gnads. They are living peaceful lives. Scholars and clerics are speaking out against the misinterpretation of the penalty for apostasy all of the time. The internet is littered with examples. And by far, most Muslim countries do not execute apostates.

As i have already said, the single greatest weapon we have against Islamists is moderate Muslims. Peaceful, moderate Muslims. Why would you constantly seek to antagonize them?

What would you have the do against barbaric and repressive regimes when the collective world's governments are failing? Or not trying at all?

Why do you disregard the 70,000 Muslim clerics have declared a fatwa on Islamic terrorists?

Wasn't that reported on thereligionofpeace?

Hizb ut-Tahrir are fanatical nut-jobs .. but they are in the extreme minority.


There's no such thing .... if there was they would have had a gutfull by now & done more than be mirror men ... looking & talking to it.

In this case words are empty & results non existent.



Of course there's such a thing! Don't be silly!

You think 1.6 billion people are waging Jihad?
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Gnads
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Re: Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia
Reply #89 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:33pm
 
[highlight][/highlight]mothra wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:16pm:
Gnads wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:02pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm:
Quote:
It was ordained when Muslims were a targeted and persecuted minority.


Crap. Muhammad preached peace and tolerance when Muslims were a minority. He preached rape and pillage as soon as they gained enough military strength.



Exactly right..... Muhammad & his mates wrote the Koran ... not Allah.

If only rose coloured glasses would give her a headache

it would be a head well deserved of one.




You think i am arguing that Allah wrote the Quran?

Have you completely lost your mind?

I'm an atheist.


No ... you have by all accounts.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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