Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 
Send Topic Print
Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling (Read 3328 times)
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27649
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #45 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 6:07am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 9:41pm:
Seems it is not just Antarctic sea ice that is shrinking, land ice is too and can be expected to melt faster once the ozone hole closes more:

Key finding 1:

Quote:
Antarctica is warming,
although changes in
atmospheric circulation
brought about by the
Antarctic ozone hole have
been a temporary mitigating
factor that has reduced the
overall amount of warming,
primarily in summer


Explanatory text:
Quote:
During the past half-century, western Antarctic surface temperatures have shown general warming trends, with significant regional patterns. Cooling of the lower stratosphere because of ozone depletion in spring and early summer has helped to mitigate the amount of warming during the past 20–30 years, particularly during
the summer across East Antarctica. For the remainder of the century, the effects of global climate change because of increased greenhouse gas concentrations are likely to overcome the mitigating effects of ozone depletion as the ozone layer recovers.


So Western Antarctica is warming while East Antarctica has been protected to some degree from warming but as the ozone hole is reduced it too will be warming.

Key Finding 2
Quote:
In contrast to the West
Antarctic Ice Sheet, the East
Antarctic Ice Sheet is not
losing mass overall but may
be gaining mass. In some
places at the coastal
margins, the ice sheet is
showing variability in
response to changes in
ocean heat. Antarctic glacier
discharge shows high
variability, while glacier
retreat continues on Heard
Island


Explanatory text:
Quote:
Although the Antarctic ice sheet is losing mass overall, this is occurring in West Antarctica and the Antarctic Peninsula. Various studies show that East Antarctica, as a whole, is close to neutral or possibly gaining mass. This aggregate conceals regional patterns of ice gain and loss in East Antarctica. In particular, coastal ice discharge from the Totten Glacier shows high variability that is related to changes in ocean heat. Recent research shows that the Totten Glacier drains a large region that rests on bedrock below sea level. This makes the ice sheet potentially vulnerable to ice retreat and ice losses, as is currently seen in parts of West Antarctica. Glacier retreat continues to be observed on Heard Island.


Well, this is different to what I have read before: the Antarctic ice sheet is losing mass overall even if East Antarctica is neutral to gaining mass.

The warmer seas, especially in the southern hemisphere (BuMet State of the Climate Report) will continue melting ice shelves to reach the land based glaciers which will them melt faster. On Greenland this resulted in 6 times faster melt.

https://soe.environment.gov.au/sites/g/files/net806/f/soe2016-antarctic-launch14...


Are you fair dinkum?

The Ozone hole closes so the ice will melt faster?

When the so called weather scientists started talking about detrimental affects of increased carbon dioxide and other atmospheric pollutants the predicted outcome was that .....

the hole in the ozone was getting bigger and that's what was warming up the planet.

Your hypothesis/statement is the exact opposite of what the weather doomsayers were espousing about the hole in the ozone.

Is it any wonder that people are skeptical about the agenda of all the so called AGW scientists/experts.
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 94112
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #46 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 6:20am
 
Latest video:





IPCC Forgets Cloud Circulation in Antarctica & Vertical Farming Solutions (335)


Published on Mar 21, 2017

Antarctica still gaining ice, a look at where underwater volcanoes are melting sea ice and why the IPCC didn't take into account cloud circulation models when doing projections for the continent. Long term 37 year look at global ice concentrations look as they always have. Aerofarms vertical farming using aeroponics for micro-greens
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27649
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #47 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 6:47am
 
There are a total of 37 active and extinct volcanoes in Antarctica.

Mt Erubus last erupted in 2015.

There are even undersea volcanoes erupting under the Arctic.


Are the effects of volcanoes now also the fault of man in the AGW hypothesis?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080626-arctic-volcano.html
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Online


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43280
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #48 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 6:48am
 
Those volcanoes were there when the Arctic was thick multiyear ice.
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27649
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #49 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 6:55am
 
So?

They're having no affect on the ice melt situation?

Says the same bloke that says that contrary to original Ozone hole theory ....

that it was getting bigger and bigger and warming the planet.

It's actually shrinking yet it's still warming the planet. Grin
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Online


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43280
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #50 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 7:02am
 
If you want to debate me read what I write.

This volcano thing is crap, OK?

Not only sea ice is melting: Antarctica is losing land ice as well.

https://soe.environment.gov.au/sites/g/files/net806/f/soe2016-antarctic-launch14...

The ozone hole is actually protecting parts of Antarctica from warming.
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27649
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #51 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 7:24am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 7:02am:
If you want to debate me read what I write.

This volcano thing is crap, OK?

Not only sea ice is melting: Antarctica is losing land ice as well.

https://soe.environment.gov.au/sites/g/files/net806/f/soe2016-antarctic-launch14...

The ozone hole is actually protecting parts of Antarctica from warming.


That's believable if it's shrinking .... because that's the opposite affect it should have to expanding & growing larger.

But that's not what you intimated.

So why wouldn't volcanoes have anything to do with changes to climate or AGW?

The earth has a molten core .... volcanoes have been affecting weather since the planet first came into existence.

A massive eruption from a single volcano can affect weather & climate patterns for years.
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Online


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43280
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #52 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 7:35am
 
Volcanoes have existed since the earth was formed.

Exactly!

They were there when the Arctic ice was metres thick. They are there now the ice is thin, mostly one year ice and shrunken in extent.

Volcanoes under the sea (Iceland is a case where the ocean floor and mid ocean ridge is on land) are mainly in mid ocean ridges where ocean floor is created (it is destroyed in subduction under continental plates causing earthquakes.)

Here is a diagram showing the mid ocean ridges including one near Antarctica and one under the Arctic ocean:
...

Greenhouse gases like CO2 and CH4 are warming the world and the mechanism by which they do are well known and measured by terrestrial and satellite spectrometry. There is no real reason (ignorance, supporting a past decision to deny AGW etc are the most likely) to doubt any of that.

That is why bushfire seasons are longer all over the world and bush/wildfires raze big parts of Australia, Chile, the US and the USSR. Melting of landbased glaciers and icesheets and an increase in volume of the warming seas are causing increased sea levels. These too have been measured by tidal gauges and satellite based altimetry.
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Online


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43280
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #53 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 7:55am
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 6:20am:
Latest video:





IPCC Forgets Cloud Circulation in Antarctica & Vertical Farming Solutions (335)


Published on Mar 21, 2017

Antarctica still gaining ice, a look at where underwater volcanoes are melting sea ice and why the IPCC didn't take into account cloud circulation models when doing projections for the continent. Long term 37 year look at global ice concentrations look as they always have. Aerofarms vertical farming using aeroponics for micro-greens


Not bothering to post the rubbish in PA anymore, Booby?

Dear me, climate scientists are an ignorant lot aren’t they? According to silly deniers like you and Lees et al climate scientists don’t know about the sun(!) don’t know about the Precession of the Equinoxes and now, apparently, they don’t know about cloud circulation! Bloody unlikely all that, isn’t it? And Dubyne is down to the last refuge of a denier, volcanoes  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy See the posts from earlier today in this thread.

Antarctica, according to the BuMet reports is losing ice overall tho East Antarctica is neutral or gaining mass but not enough to offset losses elsewhere. Sea ice is at a record low extent at both poles.

So the latest video smells as putrid as all the others. Bad science, pseudoscience by those who no doubt have an agenda.

BTW Booby, you still think Tassie cherry growers are enclosing their trees in glasshouses?
Back to top
« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2017 at 8:09am by Jovial Monk »  

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27649
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #54 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 9:01am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 7:35am:
Volcanoes have existed since the earth was formed.

Exactly!

They were there when the Arctic ice was metres thick. They are there now the ice is thin, mostly one year ice and shrunken in extent.

Volcanoes under the sea (Iceland is a case where the ocean floor and mid ocean ridge is on land) are mainly in mid ocean ridges where ocean floor is created (it is destroyed in subduction under continental plates causing earthquakes.)

Here is a diagram showing the mid ocean ridges including one near Antarctica and one under the Arctic ocean:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/World_Distribution_of_...

Greenhouse gases like CO2 and CH4 are warming the world and the mechanism by which they do are well known and measured by terrestrial and satellite spectrometry. There is no real reason (ignorance, supporting a past decision to deny AGW etc are the most likely) to doubt any of that.

That is why bushfire seasons are longer all over the world and bush/wildfires raze big parts of Australia, Chile, the US and the USSR. Melting of landbased glaciers and icesheets and an increase in volume of the warming seas are causing increased sea levels. These too have been measured by tidal gauges and satellite based altimetry.


This planet was vastly different in all demographics way back then.

Where there are now deserts there was primordial rain forest/jungles.

How active were the subterranean volcanoes under the Arctic or Antarctic? ....

as there were many many more above ground back then, even on this continent.

This continents ecosystem was also shaped by fire .... used by our Indigenous peoples ...... much of our native trees are conditioned to fire .........

adapted so that it requires fire over seeds in the ground to get them to germinate.
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16343
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #55 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 9:49am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 4:41am:
In other words—you don’t know.



That's right. You notice I posited as a question?

Now tell us in full detail what you know about the effects of pressure and temperature on gases and liquids.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16343
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #56 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 10:06am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 9:41pm:
Seems it is not just Antarctic sea ice that is shrinking, land ice is too and can be expected to melt faster once the ozone hole closes more:

Key Finding 2
Quote:
In contrast to the West
Antarctic Ice Sheet, the East
Antarctic Ice Sheet is not
losing mass overall but may
be gaining mass. In some
places at the coastal
margins, the ice sheet is
showing variability in
response to changes in
ocean heat. Antarctic glacier
discharge shows high
variability, while glacier
retreat continues on Heard
Island


Explanatory text:
Quote:
Although the Antarctic ice sheet is losing mass overall, this is occurring in West Antarctica and the Antarctic Peninsula. Various studies show that East Antarctica, as a whole, is close to neutral or possibly gaining mass. This aggregate conceals regional patterns of ice gain and loss in East Antarctica. In particular, coastal ice discharge from the Totten Glacier shows high variability that is related to changes in ocean heat. Recent research shows that the Totten Glacier drains a large region that rests on bedrock below sea level. This makes the ice sheet potentially vulnerable to ice retreat and ice losses, as is currently seen in parts of West Antarctica. Glacier retreat continues to be observed on Heard Island.


The warmer seas, especially in the southern hemisphere (BuMet State of the Climate Report) will continue melting ice shelves to reach the land based glaciers which will them melt faster. On Greenland this resulted in 6 times faster melt.

https://soe.environment.gov.au/sites/g/files/net806/f/soe2016-antarctic-launch14...



...

It must be hiding in the ice.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Online


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43280
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #57 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 10:51am
 
It isn’t the circumpolar current is warming Lees. The BuMet report mentions what part of the ocean is warming.
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Online


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43280
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #58 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 10:52am
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 9:01am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 7:35am:
Volcanoes have existed since the earth was formed.

Exactly!

They were there when the Arctic ice was metres thick. They are there now the ice is thin, mostly one year ice and shrunken in extent.

Volcanoes under the sea (Iceland is a case where the ocean floor and mid ocean ridge is on land) are mainly in mid ocean ridges where ocean floor is created (it is destroyed in subduction under continental plates causing earthquakes.)

Here is a diagram showing the mid ocean ridges including one near Antarctica and one under the Arctic ocean:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/World_Distribution_of_...

Greenhouse gases like CO2 and CH4 are warming the world and the mechanism by which they do are well known and measured by terrestrial and satellite spectrometry. There is no real reason (ignorance, supporting a past decision to deny AGW etc are the most likely) to doubt any of that.

That is why bushfire seasons are longer all over the world and bush/wildfires raze big parts of Australia, Chile, the US and the USSR. Melting of landbased glaciers and icesheets and an increase in volume of the warming seas are causing increased sea levels. These too have been measured by tidal gauges and satellite based altimetry.


This planet was vastly different in all demographics way back then.

Where there are now deserts there was primordial rain forest/jungles.

How active were the subterranean volcanoes under the Arctic or Antarctic? ....

as there were many many more above ground back then, even on this continent.

This continents ecosystem was also shaped by fire .... used by our Indigenous peoples ...... much of our native trees are conditioned to fire .........

adapted so that it requires fire over seeds in the ground to get them to germinate.


It wasn’t that far back, gnads. Unlike Ajax, however, you do realise the Earth has gone through many changes. In geologic time so has the sun.
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16343
Gender: male
Re: Antarctic sea ice record low and still falling
Reply #59 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 11:10am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 10:51am:
It isn’t the circumpolar current is warming Lees. The BuMet report mentions what part of the ocean is warming.



Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 10:41pm:
Ocean temperatures
around the Antarctic continent have increased more
rapidly and to greater depth than the global average in
recent decades (Roemmich et al. 2015)



"Increasing heat content of the global ocean dominates the energy imbalance in the climate system(1). Here we show that ocean heat gain over the 0-2,000 m layer continued at a rate of 0.4-0.6 W m(-2) during 2006-2013. The depth dependence and spatial structure of temperature changes are described on the basis of the Argo Program's(2) accurate and spatially homogeneous data set, through comparison of three Argo-only analyses. "

http://scrippsscholars.ucsd.edu/droemmich/content/unabated-planetary-warming-and...

Roemmich et al. 2015

http://www.ukargo.net/southern_ocean_argo_regional_centre/interactive_map/

According to the map there are NO Argo buoys within the Antarctic Circle. Huh

So how did they extrapolate the data?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 
Send Topic Print