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Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought (Read 966 times)
Unforgiven
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Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Mar 19th, 2017 at 4:55pm
 
Oceans are warming faster than previously thought and the rate of temperature rise is accelerating.

This is a big deal because the mass of water in the oceans is about 360 times the mass of the atmosphere. If warming is detectable in the ocean then there is a serious problem given the amount of ice that has melted recently which should have offset ocean warming considerably.

http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=101005NYHUAK

Quote:
... Fortunately, a paper just published today in Science Advances uses a new strategy to improve upon our understanding of ocean heating to estimate the total global warming from 1960 to 2015. I was fortunate to co-author the study, which uses several innovative steps to make improvements.

First, we corrected past data for known biases in measurements. Second, we related the temperature measurements to results calculated from advanced climate computer models. Third, we applied temperature knowledge to larger areas so that a single measurement was representative of a large space around the measurement site. Finally, we used their knowledge of recent and well-observed temperatures to show that the method produced excellent results.

We were able to extend our techniques back to the late1950s and show that the rate of global warming has changed significantly in the past 60 years. One main outcome of the study is that it shows we are warming about 13% faster than we previously thought. Not only that but the warming has accelerated. [highlight]The warming rate from 1992 is almost twice as great as the warming rate from 1960. Moreover, it is only since about 1990 that the warming has penetrated to depths below about 700 meters[/highlight]...
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #1 - Mar 19th, 2017 at 5:01pm
 
Late summer wet season start and finish, I guess.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #2 - Mar 19th, 2017 at 5:05pm
 
El Ninos will get bigger and bigger! The BuMet in its State of the Climate 2016 pointed out that La Ninas are warmer now than El Ninos were in the 1960s. A fairly staggering fact!
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There has not been a cool month for 628 months!

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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #3 - Mar 19th, 2017 at 5:48pm
 
Where's juliar to tell us that this is all explained by the price of fish on mars and has nothing to do with human activity or share holders and CEO's greed.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #4 - Mar 19th, 2017 at 5:53pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 4:55pm:
First, we corrected past data for known biases in measurements



We know the water passed through warm engine rooms, that's fine. It is those bloody buoys that measure the temperature directly that have to be adjusted for "cooling bias".

"The 2015 analysis showed that the modern buoys now used to measure ocean temperatures tend to report slightly cooler temperatures than older ship-based systems, even when measuring the same part of the ocean at the same time. As buoy measurements have replaced ship measurements, this had hidden some of the real-world warming.

After correcting for this “cold bias,” researchers with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration concluded in the journal Science that the oceans have actually warmed 0.12 degrees"

"however, ships began to automatically measure water piped through the engine room, which typically is warm. Nowadays, buoys cover much of the ocean and that data is beginning to supplant ship data. But the buoys report slightly cooler temperatures because they measure water directly from the ocean instead of after a trip through a warm engine room."

http://news.berkeley.edu/2017/01/04/global-warming-hiatus-disproved-again/

" Second, we related the temperature measurements to results calculated from advanced climate computer models. "

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

"Climate Science"TM
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Gordon
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #5 - Mar 19th, 2017 at 6:13pm
 
Are you talking about Nth Bondi?

Well duh, it's the warmest time of the year for ocean temps and it stays in the early 20s until June. But don't worry, before too long I'll be out of my boardies and into a steamer.

Hope this helps.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #6 - Mar 19th, 2017 at 6:32pm
 
Oceans, not Bondi. Warmed over years.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #7 - Mar 19th, 2017 at 6:47pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 6:32pm:
Oceans, not Bondi. Warmed over years.


You thought the oceans would get colder in an interglacial?
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #8 - Mar 19th, 2017 at 6:54pm
 
15,000 years since the last glaciation. Doubt we are warming up from that still.

Besides which we are warming faster and to a higher temperature than any time in the last few million years.

I think we are warming the earth by burning fossil fuels.
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There has not been a cool month for 628 months!

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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #9 - Mar 19th, 2017 at 6:59pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 6:54pm:
15,000 years since the last glaciation. Doubt we are warming up from that still.

Besides which we are warming faster and to a higher temperature than any time in the last few million years.

I think we are warming the earth by burning fossil fuels.


Yeah. exactly right YOU think it, therefore it is. Wink
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #10 - Mar 19th, 2017 at 11:52pm
 
I think we are warming the globe because everything, from everyday observations (the poles, the glaciers, the increasing length of the bushfire season) to scientific observation shows that we ARE warming the globe by reckless burning of fossil fuels.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #11 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:39am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 11:52pm:
I think we are warming the globe because everything, from everyday observations (the poles, the glaciers, the increasing length of the bushfire season) to scientific observation shows that we ARE warming the globe by reckless burning of fossil fuels.


Nonsense.

CO² is a plant food. Good enough to bottle. Lovely stuff.

Stop panicking.

A massive haemorrhoid asteroid heading for Earth is all you Nervous Nellies need worry about.

Relax and watch the Footy with a tinny and you'll feel a lot better.

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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #12 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:26am
 
And the “plant food” crap makes its umpteenth appearance.

The world is heating up, there is absolutely no doubt about that!
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There has not been a cool month for 628 months!

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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #13 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:18am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:26am:
And the “plant food” crap makes its umpteenth appearance.

The world is heating up, there is absolutely no doubt about that!


Bullshit, ass monkey!

The only thing 'heating up' is Hillary Clinton's temper every time she's reminded of how Trump pulled the rug from under her manic ambitions for being a soft version of Hitler.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #14 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:28am
 
BuMet reports Australia has warmed by 1°C since 1910. The seas around us have also warmed. Just look at the coral bleaching.

But maybe Herbert has access to a “real” set of temperature readings???

La Ninas now are as warm as El Ninos were in the 1960s. That is from the BuMet State of the Climate 2016 too!
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #15 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:36am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:28am:
BuMet reports Australia has warmed by 1°C since 1910. The seas around us have also warmed. Just look at the coral bleaching.

But maybe Herbert has access to a “real” set of temperature readings???

La Ninas now are as warm as El Ninos were in the 1960s. That is from the BuMet State of the Climate 2016 too!


The time to panic is when the Earth's cyclical Global cooling begins again.

Get a life you wretched panic-merchants.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #16 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:39am
 
So you don’t have an alternative set of temperature measurements.

Here are the BuMet report highlights:

Quote:
•      Australia’s climate has warmed in
both mean surface air temperature
and surrounding sea surface
temperature by around 1 °C
since 1910.

•      The duration, frequency and
intensity of extreme heat events
have increased across large parts
of Australia.

•      There has been an increase in
extreme fire weather, and a longer
fire season, across large parts of
Australia since the 1970s.

•      May–July rainfall has reduced by
around 19 per cent since 1970 in the
southwest of Australia.

•      There has been a decline of around
11 per cent since the mid-1990s in
the April–October growing season
rainfall in the continental southeast.


Plenty there to give pause for thought. The warming and drying of the southern half of Australia in particular.

Ice Age—next one is due in about 85,000 years.
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There has not been a cool month for 628 months!

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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #17 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:42am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:26am:
And the “plant food” crap makes its umpteenth appearance.



You deny CO2 is plant food? You deny increased yields from CO2? You deny greening of the planet due to CO2?

You denier you. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #18 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:47am
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:36am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:28am:
BuMet reports Australia has warmed by 1°C since 1910. The seas around us have also warmed. Just look at the coral bleaching.

But maybe Herbert has access to a “real” set of temperature readings???

La Ninas now are as warm as El Ninos were in the 1960s. That is from the BuMet State of the Climate 2016 too!


The time to panic is when the Earth's cyclical Global cooling begins again.

Get a life you wretched panic-merchants.



The cooling cycle won't begin for another few thousand years
What we are discussing is the current warming cycle that is caused by increased concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #19 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 12:40pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:39am:
Plenty there to give pause for thought. The warming and drying of the southern half of Australia in particular.

Ice Age—next one is due in about 85,000 years.


Not a problem

We'll adjust as we always have down through the millennia.

Meanwhile ...



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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #20 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:20pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:47am:
The cooling cycle won't begin for another few thousand years
What we are discussing is the current warming cycle that is caused by increased concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere.


China, India, Africa, and all of South America have repeatedly told the West that they will use fossil fuels just as the West has done to fire-up its Industrial Revolution which turned us into the First World 'developed' nations that we are today.

It's got to be One-in, All-in .. or not at all.

Australia accounts for only 2% of the world's carbon emissions.

Get a life, you Marla-clone ass-monkeys.


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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #21 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:27pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:42am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:26am:
And the “plant food” crap makes its umpteenth appearance.



You deny CO2 is plant food? You deny increased yields from CO2? You deny greening of the planet due to CO2?

You denier you. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



It would have been good for plants before the industrialization.  Right now, we are burning up fossil fuels and deforesting at a rate unseen over on Earth natural history (except perhaps that extinction event).  And that is the problem.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #22 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:40pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:27pm:
lee wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:42am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:26am:
And the “plant food” crap makes its umpteenth appearance.



You deny CO2 is plant food? You deny increased yields from CO2? You deny greening of the planet due to CO2?

You denier you. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



It would have been good for plants before the industrialization.  Right now, we are burning up fossil fuels and deforesting at a rate unseen over on Earth natural history (except perhaps that extinction event).  And that is the problem. 



Hold it RIGHT THERE, Tickle!

No one's talking about deforestation and stripping our Planet Earth of its vegetation.

Coal.

That's it.

There are any number of ways of burning coal without it polluting the atmosphere.

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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #23 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:43pm
 
Just lie back and think of the next Ice Age ....


Your eye-lids are feeling heavy ... heavy ... heavy ...

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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #24 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 2:18pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:40pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:27pm:
lee wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:42am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:26am:
And the “plant food” crap makes its umpteenth appearance.



You deny CO2 is plant food? You deny increased yields from CO2? You deny greening of the planet due to CO2?

You denier you. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



It would have been good for plants before the industrialization.  Right now, we are burning up fossil fuels and deforesting at a rate unseen over on Earth natural history (except perhaps that extinction event).  And that is the problem. 



Hold it RIGHT THERE, Tickle!

No one's talking about deforestation and stripping our Planet Earth of its vegetation.

Coal.

That's it.

There are any number of ways of burning coal without it polluting the atmosphere.



But its all connected in the carbon cycle.  And plus its very difficult to grown something back on a used coal mine.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #25 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:05pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:27pm:
lee wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:42am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:26am:
And the “plant food” crap makes its umpteenth appearance.



You deny CO2 is plant food? You deny increased yields from CO2? You deny greening of the planet due to CO2?

You denier you. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



It would have been good for plants before the industrialization.  Right now, we are burning up fossil fuels and deforesting at a rate unseen over on Earth natural history (except perhaps that extinction event).  And that is the problem. 


You mean the extinction event where they modelled proven extinctions, extrapolated it with the unknown numbers of living organisms and came up with a number. That was so hilarious. Wink
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #26 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:16pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 2:18pm:
But its all connected in the carbon cycle.  And plus its very difficult to grown something back on a used coal mine.



You mean you can't rehabilitate?

Now of course they are cutting down forests for wood pellets to burn in a coal plant (DRAX). The pellets are being cut in Canada and the USA.

So we have a couple of problems -

1. wood pellets have less thermal energy than coal.

2. The  manufacture of wood pellets uses non-renewable energy as well as the fossil fuels used to transport the pellets to the UK, train to DRAX.

Not a clean, green solution.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #27 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:23pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 12:40pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:39am:
Plenty there to give pause for thought. The warming and drying of the southern half of Australia in particular.

Ice Age—next one is due in about 85,000 years.


Not a problem

We'll adjust as we always have down through the millennia.

Meanwhile ...




The last LIA a lot of people adapted by dying.
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There has not been a cool month for 628 months!

AGW is here, Booby!
 
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #28 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:24pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:16pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 2:18pm:
But its all connected in the carbon cycle.  And plus its very difficult to grown something back on a used coal mine.



You mean you can't rehabilitate?

Now of course they are cutting down forests for wood pellets to burn in a coal plant (DRAX). The pellets are being cut in Canada and the USA.

So we have a couple of problems -

1. wood pellets have less thermal energy than coal.

2. The  manufacture of wood pellets uses non-renewable energy as well as the fossil fuels used to transport the pellets to the UK, train to DRAX.

Not a clean, green solution.


Renewable technology have to start somewhere.  Right now, our problem is that we are messing around with the carbon cycle in many aspects. Granted we have CO2 level like this before on Earth, but this time its different.  The rate of increase is alot higher, and we are messing with deforestation.  And this is on top of natural CO2 emissions. 

The non renewable carbon based energy is dirty, its the least abundant form of energy in the entire universe (that we know of), and its never going to be able to keep up with the growing population at the rate we are going. 

We need to do the right thing.  Instead of subsidizing this outdated form of energy generation, invest and give incentives to divest into renewable.   The race is on, who ever succeed in the renewable energy sector is going to be the next superpower.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #29 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:28pm
 
Nuclear has a role as non-intermittent power source. An ETS will make nuclear one of the best options.
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There has not been a cool month for 628 months!

AGW is here, Booby!
 
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #30 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:35pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:28pm:
Nuclear has a role as non-intermittent power source. An ETS will make nuclear one of the best options.


The problem with nuclear is the storage and production of biohazardous materials which have important security implications.   We are however, making breakthroughs in fusion energy.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #31 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:38pm
 
Fusion would be great! Breeder reactors tho “burn” their own waste. I would like to think that we will not reach a second degree of warming!
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #32 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:03pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 2:18pm:
But its all connected in the carbon cycle.  And plus its very difficult to grown something back on a used coal mine.   


Stripped coal-mines offer a lucrative industry in mushrooms and bat-poo fertiliser. Maybe even birds' nest soup.

Think POSITIVE, Ticklenose!
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #33 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:16pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:03pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 2:18pm:
But its all connected in the carbon cycle.  And plus its very difficult to grown something back on a used coal mine.   


Stripped coal-mines offer a lucrative industry in mushrooms and bat-poo fertiliser. Maybe even birds' nest soup.

Think POSITIVE, Ticklenose!


So does Herr Bert's cranial cavity.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #34 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:23pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:24pm:
Renewable technology have to start somewhere.



Renewable technology has been around since the 19th century.

tickleandrose wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:24pm:
ranted we have CO2 level like this before on Earth, but this time its different.  The rate of increase is alot higher, and we are messing with deforestation



Perhaps you can show a graph where it was similar to now, but the current rate is a lot higher.

tickleandrose wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:24pm:
We need to do the right thing.  Instead of subsidizing this outdated form of energy generation, invest and give incentives to divest into renewable.   The race is on, who ever succeed in the renewable energy sector is going to be the next superpower.



So we should subsidise renewables that don't have the same thermal efficiency as coal, because it might be harmful, or not.

"Yet moves by governments around the world to designate wood as a carbon-neutral fuel—making it eligible for beneficial treatment under tax, trade, and environmental regulations—have spurred fierce debate. Critics argue that accounting for carbon recycling is far more complex than it seems. They say favoring wood could actually boost carbon emissions, not curb them, for many decades, and that wind and solar energy—emissions-free from the start—are a better bet for the climate. Some scientists also worry that policies promoting wood fuels could unleash a global logging boom that trashes forest biodiversity in the name of climate protection.


"It basically tells the Congo and Indonesia and every other forested country in the world: ‘If you cut down your forests and use them for energy, not only is that not bad, it's good,’" says Tim Searchinger, a senior fellow at the World Resources Institute in Washington, D.C., who has studied the carbon impacts of wood energy."

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/01/wood-green-source-energy-scientists-are-d...
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #35 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:34pm
 
I was chatting with a client on the weekend, a total egg head economist who also understands energy.

He reckons the way to go is for the Govt to get coal as cheaply as possible and provide Australia with the cheap energy to give our industry competitive advantage, and sink more money into energy efficiency while making a long term plan for renewables.

Discuss.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #36 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:39pm
 
Gordon wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:34pm:
I was chatting with a client on the weekend, a total egg head economist who also understands energy.

He reckons the way to go is for the Govt to get coal as cheaply as possible and provide Australia with the cheap energy to give our industry competitive advantage, and sink more money into energy efficiency while making a long term plan for renewables.

Discuss.


Was this "egg head" hard boiled?
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #37 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:43pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:39pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:34pm:
I was chatting with a client on the weekend, a total egg head economist who also understands energy.

He reckons the way to go is for the Govt to get coal as cheaply as possible and provide Australia with the cheap energy to give our industry competitive advantage, and sink more money into energy efficiency while making a long term plan for renewables.

Discuss.


Was this "egg head" hard boiled?


He reckons the numbers work, in $ and CO2.

Do you have anything productive to say?
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #38 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:48pm
 
Gordon wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:43pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:39pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:34pm:
I was chatting with a client on the weekend, a total egg head economist who also understands energy.

He reckons the way to go is for the Govt to get coal as cheaply as possible and provide Australia with the cheap energy to give our industry competitive advantage, and sink more money into energy efficiency while making a long term plan for renewables.

Discuss.


Was this "egg head" hard boiled?


He reckons the numbers work, in $ and CO2.

Do you have anything productive to say?


Gordon's hard-boiled egg head is scrambled and waffling.

Not one skerrick of hard-boiled facts.

Australia did not get a competitive edge from brown coal which is the cheapest energy source except for the fact it destroyed the health of residents in the vicinity.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #39 - Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:20pm
 
Gordon wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:34pm:
I was chatting with a client on the weekend, a total egg head economist who also understands energy.

He reckons the way to go is for the Govt to get coal as cheaply as possible and provide Australia with the cheap energy to give our industry competitive advantage, and sink more money into energy efficiency while making a long term plan for renewables.

Discuss.


Clean coal.

Wash, filter, and combine the carbon emissions with another gas to render the CO² harmless.

It's very basic. Not rocket science.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #40 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 12:47am
 
Give it a couple days, and the results of warmer oceans are going to culminate in the appearance of Cyclone Debbie. Much needed rain is forecast for the inland of Qld if and when the cyclone turns into a depression moving inland over northern CQld.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #41 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 12:53am
 
Gordon wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:34pm:
I was chatting with a client on the weekend, a total egg head economist who also understands energy.

He reckons the way to go is for the Govt to get coal as cheaply as possible and provide Australia with the cheap energy to give our industry competitive advantage, and sink more money into energy efficiency while making a long term plan for renewables.

Discuss.


We already have loads of coal, we even export it by the bucket load. It sounds like he is saying burn coal and leave the future to itself. What long term plan? Plan on making a plan? Sounds like the liberal party.

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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #42 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 1:25am
 
Setanta wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 12:53am:
Gordon wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:34pm:
I was chatting with a client on the weekend, a total egg head economist who also understands energy.

He reckons the way to go is for the Govt to get coal as cheaply as possible and provide Australia with the cheap energy to give our industry competitive advantage, and sink more money into energy efficiency while making a long term plan for renewables.

Discuss.


We already have loads of coal, we even export it by the bucket load. It sounds like he is saying burn coal and leave the future to itself. What long term plan? Plan on making a plan? Sounds like the liberal party.



Denizen Gordon has evidently taken more head shots from kettlebells than he has admitted.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #43 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 10:03am
 
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #44 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 11:28am
 
Yup, both poles melting. The sun has been quiescent since the 1970s.

But AGW is not happening  Roll Eyes Cheesy
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #45 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 11:50am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 11:28am:
Yup, both poles melting. The sun has been quiescent since the 1970s.

But AGW is not happening  Roll Eyes Cheesy



And only the sun and CO2 cause warming, according to you.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #46 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 12:35pm
 
You know of other sources of warming?
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #47 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 2:00pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 12:35pm:
You know of other sources of warming?



Well, you do know the Sun causes warming of the ocean?  It doesn't matter whether it is a quiescent Sun or not. Visible light causes deeper warming than IR, which only warms the top 20uM, approximately.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #48 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 2:06pm
 
I mentioned the sun has been quiescent for decades yet AGW powered along.

Did you miss me saying that? I will say it again:

I mentioned the sun has been quiescent for decades yet AGW powered along. There, see it now? Or do I need to use bigger type?

I mentioned the sun has been quiescent for decades yet AGW powered along.


See that now?

Your comment about oceans absorbing light reminds me of something.

As polar sea ice melts, which it is, sunlight hits dark ocean which absorbs the light and converts it to heat, to IR. Before AGW started melting the poles the Arctic and Southern Oceans were covered with snow and ice which reflected the sunlight. This is known as a positive feedback. The poles are the sites of fastest warming.

That the sort of thing you were blithering about Lees?
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #49 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 3:12pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 2:06pm:
I mentioned the sun has been quiescent for decades yet AGW powered along.

Did you miss me saying that? I will say it again:

I mentioned the sun has been quiescent for decades yet AGW powered along. There, see it now? Or do I need to use bigger type?

I mentioned the sun has been quiescent for decades yet AGW powered along.


See that now?

Your comment about oceans absorbing light reminds me of something.

As polar sea ice melts, which it is, sunlight hits dark ocean which absorbs the light and converts it to heat, to IR. Before AGW started melting the poles the Arctic and Southern Oceans were covered with snow and ice which reflected the sunlight. This is known as a positive feedback. The poles are the sites of fastest warming.

That the sort of thing you were blithering about Lees?


So you think the Sun being quiescent is the only metric by which GW should be measured, apart from CO2. Interesting - but stupid.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #50 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 3:15pm
 
CO2 is the driver of AGW.

The sun supplies nearly 100% of the earths energy budget. Said budget is reduced yet AGW is powering along.

Food for thought for those capable of thinking. That does not include many here.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #51 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 3:17pm
 
Did you see mention of a positive feedback, Lees? Or would you like me to repeat that too?


As polar sea ice melts, which it is, sunlight hits dark ocean which absorbs the light and converts it to heat, to IR. Before AGW started melting the poles the Arctic and Southern Oceans were covered with snow and ice which reflected the sunlight. This is known as a positive feedback. The poles are the sites of fastest warming.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #52 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 3:20pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 3:17pm:
the Arctic and Southern Oceans were covered with snow and ice



When was the last time the Southern Ocean was covered in ice? Wink
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #53 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 3:22pm
 
Was a lot more sea ice before AGW.

Both poles are sites of the fastest AGW caused warming on the planet.

Positive feedback, I say
POSITIVE FEEDBACK!
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #54 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 3:38pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 3:15pm:
CO2 is the driver of AGW.

The sun supplies nearly 100% of the earths energy budget. Said budget is reduced yet AGW is powering along.

Food for thought for those capable of thinking. That does not include many here.



...

Surface Imbalance 0.6 +/-17 W/m2? Data from Stephens 2012.

Not much in the way of error there.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #55 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 3:53pm
 
That is supposed to mean something?
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #56 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 4:45pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 3:53pm:
That is supposed to mean something?



Wow. just shows you know a lot about uncertainties in climate data. /sarc Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #57 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 4:47pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 3:22pm:
Was a lot more sea ice before AGW.

Both poles are sites of the fastest AGW caused warming on the planet.

Positive feedback, I say
POSITIVE FEEDBACK!



You mean since 1979.  Don't forget the alarming sea ice loss in the early 20th century. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #58 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 5:35pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 4:45pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 3:53pm:
That is supposed to mean something?



Wow. just shows you know a lot about uncertainties in climate data. /sarc Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


So it doesn’t mean anything.

With the CO2 concentration getting higher, the temperatures rising, the poles shrinking. more and more water vapor in the air etc etc a figure like that means nothing. As does saying “early 20th century ice loss.”
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #59 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:15pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 5:35pm:
So it doesn’t mean anything.

With the CO2 concentration getting higher, the temperatures rising, the poles shrinking. more and more water vapor in the air etc etc a figure like that means nothing. As does saying “early 20th century ice loss.”



Only in your mind. Wink

0.6 +/-17w/m2 means it could be anywhere between -16.4w/m2 to +17.6w/m2.
In other words 0.6 is lost in the noise.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #60 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:16pm
 
The oceans are also warming faster—13% faster, apparently.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #61 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:19pm
 
who even believes these highly contradictory stats anymore..not me..
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #62 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:21pm
 
Agnes wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:19pm:
who even believe these highly contradictory stats anymore..not me..


Well that is the headline. Of course it is all to do with the Karlisation of ocean temperature. Wink


lee wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 5:53pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 4:55pm:
First, we corrected past data for known biases in measurements



We know the water passed through warm engine rooms, that's fine. It is those bloody buoys that measure the temperature directly that have to be adjusted for "cooling bias".

"The 2015 analysis showed that the modern buoys now used to measure ocean temperatures tend to report slightly cooler temperatures than older ship-based systems, even when measuring the same part of the ocean at the same time. As buoy measurements have replaced ship measurements, this had hidden some of the real-world warming.

After correcting for this “cold bias,” researchers with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration concluded in the journal Science that the oceans have actually warmed 0.12 degrees"

"however, ships began to automatically measure water piped through the engine room, which typically is warm. Nowadays, buoys cover much of the ocean and that data is beginning to supplant ship data. But the buoys report slightly cooler temperatures because they measure water directly from the ocean instead of after a trip through a warm engine room."

http://news.berkeley.edu/2017/01/04/global-warming-hiatus-disproved-again/

" Second, we related the temperature measurements to results calculated from advanced climate computer models. "

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

"Climate Science"TM

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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #63 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:37pm
 
Agnes wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:19pm:
who even believe these highly contradictory stats anymore..not me..


The stats are not contradictory, Agnes, tho the matter may appear complex it is at heart simple.

Greenhouse gases like CO2 and methane are concentrating more and more in the atmosphere. As sunlight is reflected by the surface of our world it loses energy and becomes infra red. The ray of IR heads out to space.

If a greenhouse gas molecule is hit by ray of IR it absorbs the photon then, nano or milliseconds later re-emits it. When it re-emits the photon it might go in any direction. In other words many such photons of infrared will be sent back down to the earth, warming it.

You can see the world is warming by looking at the poles: both poles are losing ice, the Greenland ice sheet continues to melt and nearly all land based glaciers are retreating. Weather is weird too, Chicago had 70°F weather in January, unheard of!

Water vapor is also a GHG and as the world warms there is more water vapor in the atmosphere, further warming the world: this is a positive feedback loop. Another positive feedback loop, where AGW makes more AGW happen, is at the poles where the sea ice extent has radically reduced. This means sunlight that used to be reflected by light colored ice and snow now is absorbed by the dark ocean heating the ocean. The poles is where AGW is most rapid.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #64 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:41pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:37pm:
Water vapor is also a GHG and as the world warms there is more water vapor in the atmosphere, further warming the world: this is a positive feedback loop. Another positive feedback loop, where AGW makes more AGW happen, is at the poles where the sea ice extent has radically reduced. This means sunlight that used to be reflected by light colored ice and snow now is absorbed by the dark ocean heating the ocean. The poles is where AGW is most rapid.



You have to wonder what happened in the past to reverse the runaway AGW that you espouse.  Was the variation of CO2 in the past unicorn farts, running carts with 6 or 8 horses in hand rather than 4?
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #65 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:42pm
 
AGW deniers like Gregory, Lees and Ajax tend not to be able to advance a coherent alternative theory but come back with, essentially, nonsense articles etc they get from denier sites.

There are deniers, even scientists. Such denier site creators and denier scientists tend to get money from fossil fuel interests who want people to keep burning fossil fuels. Right wing politicians see AGW as a call for regulation etc etc and side with fossil fuel interests.

If you read these threads you see Lees coming back time after time with the same quibbles etc. He has no explanation for the rising global temperature.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #66 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:44pm
 
Agnes wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:19pm:
who even believes these highly contradictory stats anymore..not me..


Not I.

All fabricated nonsense, designed to keep people in work.

Good luck to them, though.

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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #67 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:47pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:42pm:
AGW deniers like Gregory, Lees and Ajax tend not to be able to advance a coherent alternative theory but come back with, essentially, nonsense articles etc they get from denier sites.


Lying will get you nowhere.

If you think AGW is real, the onus is on you to provide credible, reliable evidence that proves your claim.

You can't do that so, don't keep pretending that your theory is the truth.

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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #68 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:50pm
 
We know that GHGs absorb IR photons.

Point a spectrometer at the sky—CO2, methane etc are overrepresented in the IR spectrum.

Point a spectrometer in a satellite at the globe—CO2, methane etc are UNDER represented in the spectrum.

This shows IR is being blocked from heading to space by GHGs. Simple, no theories, no models just measurement.

Deniers just gloss over this, pretend the evidence does not exist.
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Re: Ocean warming 13% faster than previously thought
Reply #69 - Mar 25th, 2017 at 7:00pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 6:50pm:
We know that GHGs absorb IR photons.

Point a spectrometer at the sky—CO2, methane etc are overrepresented in the IR spectrum.

Point a spectrometer in a satellite at the globe—CO2, methane etc are UNDER represented in the spectrum.

This shows IR is being blocked from heading to space by GHGs. Simple, no theories, no models just measurement.

Deniers just gloss over this, pretend the evidence does not exist.



Now all you have to do is link the photons to AGW.  Remember CO2 logarithmic effect on temperature. Wink

NOT Linear, which you like to pretend.

Where is the spectrometry data from earlier years for comparison?
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