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Top blokes, totally out of character (Read 4194 times)
mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #180 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 10:28am
 
The most senior police officer on the ground in Kalgoorlie yesterday was Acting Commander Darryl Gaunt. He has more than 30 years experience in the job, and told media he’s “never seen anything like this before”.

Describing some social media commentary as “disgusting and racist”, he added, “It has absolutely inflamed the situation, without a doubt.”

And yet, a white man allegedly killed a black child, but the people being cast as animals in Kalgoorlie this morning are those who reacted to a well-worn history of brutal oppression by clashing with police, and smashing some windows.

This is despite the reality that the victim’s family, and Aboriginal elders, supported police and tried to calm protesters.

Those flames were still being fanned overnight – here’s some posts from Kalgoorlie’s infamous ‘Crimes Whinges and Whines’ Facebook page which comes with this description: “Warning: Posts and comments here may be offensive to some people. We encourage anyone who is offended by this group to remove themselves as it is a closed group and you have the option of leaving.”

In the midst of all this, Elijah Doughty, a 14-year-old boy who dreamed of being a star footballer, is lying dead in a morgue.

He was someone’s cousin, nephew, brother, grandson, friend.

Those condemning protestors in Kalgoorlie would do well to remember that. And they would do well to remember that the system entrusted to deliver justice for this young boy is the same justice system that freed the killers of John Pat. It’s the same justice system that saw no response, no accountability, for the death of Mr Ward. It’s the same system that ignored the cries of Ms Dhu.

Nauru-children-jailedAnd it comes from the same nation that does this to children on Nauru, and men and women seeking asylum.

All eyes are now on that system, and how it responds to Elijah’s death.

None of this means that Aboriginal people can expect justice will be delivered. It wasn’t for Mulrunji, for John Pat, for Mr Ward, for Kwementyaye Ryder, for the Bowraville children and for many, many others.

But it does mean that a system which has brutalised Aboriginal people for more than 200 years will come under far greater scrutiny.

The fact is, violence sometimes is the answer. It was our answer in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and Vietnam. It’s our answer on Manus and Nauru. It is frequently our answer when it suits white interests. State sanctioned violence is carried out in all our names, for all our benefit.

While yesterday’s violence was not state sanctioned, this morning, you’re only reading about it because Aboriginal people fought back. Just like on Palm Island.

Unless you’ve lived an Aboriginal life – and experienced that violence – you’re in no position to pass judgement on the response to it.


https://newmatilda.com/2016/08/31/the-kalgoorlie-uprising-a-rational-response-to...
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Rhino
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #181 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 11:23am
 
Rhino wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:14pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:48pm:
This is a good report investigating disparity between Indigenous and non-indigenous offenders:

http://www.criminologyresearchcouncil.gov.au/reports/1213/11-0910-FinalReport.pd...


- Raven


Thanks for the link. I've read similar reports but this is an excellent resource.

Good luck getting anyone on here to read it though.
that article backs up my statement that aboriginal offenders are dealt with more leniently by the courts simply because they are aboriginal
Quote:
Second, community and political constraints may place pressure on judges to reduce sentence
severity for Indigenous defendants. In particular, the Royal Commission into Aboriginal
Deaths in Custody (1991) is likely to have sensitised Australian courts to the marginalised
position of Indigenous Australians and the impact of Indigenous over-representation in
imprisonment on Indigenous communities. In particular, the Royal Commission argued that
“the powers and decisions of sentencing courts present considerable opportunity for reducing
the numbers of Aboriginal people in custody” (1991, Chapter 2, recommendation 92). As
noted by Anthony (2010: 1), “when sentencing Indigenous offenders, courts in Australia …
do their work in the knowledge that the rates of Indigenous imprisonment are much higher
than the rates for the community as a whole”.
There have been subsequent developments in sentencing law that suggest Indigeneity could
act as a mitigating factor in sentencing. In at least three Australian jurisdictions (South
Australia, Australian Capital Territory, Queensland), sentencing legislation allows
consideration be given to the cultural background of defendants. Further, recent precedent
exists in case law for factors associated with offenders’ Indigenous status (e.g. associated
disadvantage) and Indigeneity itself (e.g. historical legacy of colonisation) to mitigate
sentencing (see discussions by Edney, 2003; Edney and Bagaric, 2007: 246; Anthony, 2010).
In addition, a number of Australian jurisdictions have developed alternative ways of
sentencing Indigenous offenders (including Indigenous and circle sentencing courts) which
seek to acknowledge the differential needs of Indigenous defendants (Harris, 2006; Jeffries
and Bond, 2009: 54). Therefore, we might expect to find evidence of Indigenous sentencing
leniency (i.e. positive discrimination) because there is likely to be judicial recognition of the
marginalised status of Indigenous defendants, connected to broader societal concerns
regarding the ‘plight’ of Indigenous peoples as a colonised group within the criminal justice
system (Jeffries and Bond, 2009; Jeffries and Bond, 2010a; Bond and Jeffries, 2011a; Bond

Thanks for that.

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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #182 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 11:24am
 
mothra wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 9:23am:
Rhino wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:14pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:48pm:
This is a good report investigating disparity between Indigenous and non-indigenous offenders:

http://www.criminologyresearchcouncil.gov.au/reports/1213/11-0910-FinalReport.pd...


- Raven


Thanks for the link. I've read similar reports but this is an excellent resource.

Good luck getting anyone on here to read it though.
that article backs up my statement that aboriginal offenders are dealt with more leniently by the courts simply because they are aboriginal
Quote:
Second, community and political constraints may place pressure on judges to reduce sentence
severity for Indigenous defendants. In particular, the Royal Commission into Aboriginal
Deaths in Custody (1991) is likely to have sensitised Australian courts to the marginalised
position of Indigenous Australians and the impact of Indigenous over-representation in
imprisonment on Indigenous communities. In particular, the Royal Commission argued that
“the powers and decisions of sentencing courts present considerable opportunity for reducing
the numbers of Aboriginal people in custody” (1991, Chapter 2, recommendation 92). As
noted by Anthony (2010: 1), “when sentencing Indigenous offenders, courts in Australia …
do their work in the knowledge that the rates of Indigenous imprisonment are much higher
than the rates for the community as a whole”.
There have been subsequent developments in sentencing law that suggest Indigeneity could
act as a mitigating factor in sentencing. In at least three Australian jurisdictions (South
Australia, Australian Capital Territory, Queensland), sentencing legislation allows
consideration be given to the cultural background of defendants. Further, recent precedent
exists in case law for factors associated with offenders’ Indigenous status (e.g. associated
disadvantage) and Indigeneity itself (e.g. historical legacy of colonisation) to mitigate
sentencing (see discussions by Edney, 2003; Edney and Bagaric, 2007: 246; Anthony, 2010).
In addition, a number of Australian jurisdictions have developed alternative ways of
sentencing Indigenous offenders (including Indigenous and circle sentencing courts) which
seek to acknowledge the differential needs of Indigenous defendants (Harris, 2006; Jeffries
and Bond, 2009: 54). Therefore, we might expect to find evidence of Indigenous sentencing
leniency (i.e. positive discrimination) because there is likely to be judicial recognition of the
marginalised status of Indigenous defendants, connected to broader societal concerns
regarding the ‘plight’ of Indigenous peoples as a colonised group within the criminal justice
system (Jeffries and Bond, 2009; Jeffries and Bond, 2010a; Bond and Jeffries, 2011a; Bond

Thanks for that.



Talk about confirmation bias!

Tell me Rhino, why did you choose to omit this and rather copy and paste in an hypothesis?:

"In all study jurisdictions, there were three consistent findings:

Indigenous defendants were more likely than non-Indigenous offenders to be
sentenced to prison
. While Indigenous/non-Indigenous disparity was consistently
more pronounced in the baseline statistics, it remained even after accounting for other
influential sentencing determinants. These results support both differential
involvement and negative discrimination hypotheses.

 Indigenous defendants were less likely than non-Indigenous offenders to be sentenced
to a monetary order (compared to other non-imprisonment penalties). The initial
baseline difference was reduced, but did not dissipate completely after controlling for
other important sentencing factors. Although these results support the differential
involvement hypothesis, they do not necessarily suggest negative or positive
discrimination. This is because monetary orders may not always be harsher than other
non-imprisonment orders.

 Indigenous defendants were sentenced to monetary orders of a lesser amount than
non-Indigenous offenders. Adjusting for other important sentencing factors reduced
initial differences, but evidence of a continuing direct effect was found. Thus, the
results support both differential involvement and positive discrimination hypotheses."




Up for Rhino ... you must have missed it so i'll bump it for you, shall i?
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Rhino
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #183 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 11:48am
 
You are done Mothra, you posted an article which supports the opposite of which you claim but which supports what I have been claiming all along. You cant backpedal fast enough to get out of this one.
Bye bye Mothra Wink
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Rhino
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #184 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 11:51am
 
Lol, what a maroon, of course indigenous are more likely to go to prison even though they are dealt with more leniently in general.
Their criminal records are much more extensive.
Game set match, Rhino.
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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #185 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 12:02pm
 
Rhino wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 11:48am:
You are done Mothra, you posted an article which supports the opposite of which you claim but which supports what I have been claiming all along. You cant backpedal fast enough to get out of this one.
Bye bye Mothra Wink


Curious analysis, after being exposed.

Seems you are desperately trying to evade the question.

Tell me Rhino, why did you choose to omit the consistent overall findings and rather copy and paste in an hypothesis?

And why only include the hypothesis that adheres to your confirmation bias? You didnt feel inclined to post in this one:

The Negative Discrimination Hypothesis

This hypothesis argues that Indigenous status directly impacts sentencing, resulting in harsher
outcomes. In other words, the baseline sentencing disparity noted in the government court
data (see above) is not attributable to differences in other influential sentencing determinates
(e.g. past and present offending) as suggested by the differential involvement hypothesis.
Developed in early United States sentencing research, the theoretical foundations for this
hypothesis are based in the conflict school of criminology, where sentencing discrimination
was thought to be inevitable for minority groups because they posed a ‘threat’ to the
privileged position of whites in American society (Peterson and Hagan, 1984; Hawkins,
1987; Steen et al., 2005). Applying the conflict perspective in an Australian context, harsher
sentencing of Indigenous peoples would be predicted, given this country’s history of
colonisation and the continuing oppression of Indigenous people as evidenced by their
marginalised and disadvantaged social, political and economic status (Jeffries and Bond,
2009: 50).
More recently, the negative discrimination hypothesis has been theoretically positioned
within the focal concerns perspective (Bond and Jeffries, 2011a: 2). Research suggests that
sentencing decisions are guided by a number of judicial focal concerns, particularly: offender
blameworthiness and harm caused by the offence; community protection or risk; and practical
constraints presented by individual offenders, organisational resources, political and
community expectations (Steffensmeier, Ulmer and Kramer, 1998: 766-767). Similar
concerns have been found among Australian judges (see Mackenzie, 2005).


http://www.criminologyresearchcouncil.gov.au/reports/1213/11-0910-FinalReport.pd...
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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #186 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 12:02pm
 
Rhino wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 11:51am:
Lol, what a maroon, of course indigenous are more likely to go to prison even though they are dealt with more leniently in general.
Their criminal records are much more extensive.
Game set match, Rhino.



You didn't understand the report at all, did you.

The reason given for the increased prison sentences and the context in which that reason was given  is that non-Aboriginal people are more likely to receive fines than prison terms.

It's quite clearly stated.
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« Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2017 at 12:37pm by mothra »  

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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #187 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 12:42pm
 
Here is an example:

Courts 'harsher' on Aboriginal driving offences


ABORIGINAL offenders convicted of driving while disqualified in remote and regional NSW are being sentenced to jail at three times the state average.
The Aboriginal Legal Service has accused country magistrates of falling into "errant, idiosyncratic and overly harsh sentencing patterns".

That assessment is based on an analysis of 264 cases involving Aboriginal clients charged with driving while disqualified who had been sentenced between 2006 and 2012.

The exercise revealed 46 per cent had been given prison sentences. That figure rose to 60 per cent when suspended sentences were taken into account.

The study, which included all matters in which the ALS has acted in Dubbo and NSW circuit courts since 2006, showed that not only were jail sentences for indigenous people handed out more often, but they were also for longer than the state average.

The study covered local and district courts in central-west towns including Dunedoo, Wellington, Warren, Peak Hill, Nyngan, Narromine, Coonabarabran, Forbes, Parkes, Mudgee and Gilgandra.

The jailing rate for the ALS Dubbo clients was 46 per cent, the study showed, whereas of all people convicted in local courts for driving while disqualified across NSW between April 2008 and March 2012 the jailing rate was only 15 per cent, according to the Judicial Commission of NSW.

More than one-third of the ALS clients in the Dubbo region who received jail terms were sentenced to terms of imprisonment of 12 months, compared with a 26 per cent state average. And 17 per cent were sent to jail for 18 months, compared with only 8 per cent of the general population.

Almost 60 per cent of ALS clients sentenced in Dubbo and circuit courts received jail terms of 12 months and more, compared with a state average of 46 per cent.

A large number of Aborigines , who are grossly over-represented in the prison system, are serving sentences for petty offences or what the ALS describes as "poverty offences" such as driving while disqualified.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/legal-affairs/courts-harsher-on-aboriginal-driving-offences/news-story/12ff7e6a67181b23db8ceb9c9c69a759
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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #188 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 12:55pm
 
And:

The Position with Minor Offences.

The exorbitant crime and imprisonment rates recorded in these studies are not confined to serious or violent crimes. At least in recent times, a high proportion of Aboriginal offences has been of a minor, repetitive, sometimes even trivial character.[11]

The New South Wales Anti-Discrimination Board in a study of street offences by Aborigines found that:

in 10 NSW towns with high Aboriginal populations, Aborigines charged with minor offences in public places greatly outnumber non-Aborigines.

The behaviour resulting in the charges was in the main or’ a trivial nature,the majority of offences involving the use of unseemly words.

Penalties, too, have a more severe impact on Aboriginal people. An appreciable number of those convicted and fined in the 10 towns in this study went to jail rather than pay the fine, even though jail is not a punishment option available under the Offences in Public Places Act.[12]

In South Australia between 1 January 1983–30 June 1983, 34%
of all persons convicted of ‘drunkenness’, ‘minor street offences’ an ‘offences
against order’ were Aboriginal.[13]

In country areas a similar pattern emerges to that in NSW:

A study of court records ... show that courts servicing communities with a substantial Aboriginal population ... have markedly higher
rates of imprisonment for vagrancy offences and fines and imprisonment for
public drunkenness offenders than other courts. An Aboriginal defendant charged with offensive behaviour before the country courts in this State is five times
more likely to receive a prison sentence and six times more likely to be
refused bail than non-Aboriginals.[14]



http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/17.%20Aboriginal%20Customary%20laws%20and%20...
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Karnal
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #189 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:33pm
 
Aussie wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:30pm:
cods wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:23pm:
Aussie wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:18pm:
Quote:
.did they go in with bats and bottles..


Heavens, no, Cods.  Just a fast moving vehicle running over bodies and beds, their boots and a gun.  Nothing serious like bats and bottles.   You can relax.



oh dear the blank gun you mean.....yeah I am sure rough necks would have used blanks..

ok aussie you win


but you are still the only one to use appalling language when describing these people..

thats is a fact you cannot deny...

even though it is one you try to avoid....in your usual fashion....if I ever see it anywhere else I will always associate it with you..

it sounds like its on a par with the N word in America..

well done aussie for bringing it too our attention. Angry Angry



No need to thank me cods.  Nappy has educated you far more extensively than I as to why the good white people of Australia, refer to these people as 'dirty boongs.'

It's all meant harmlessly, you know.  That's why 18 - 23 year old arseholes get to terrorise them at their Homes......it's all just jolly good fun, you know.  A dirty boong is killed and they'll all be out in a few short years on probation.


They're only Boongs, Aussie. They don't know any better.

I blame their filthy apologists. You?
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cods
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #190 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:44pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 10:09am:
cods wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 10:00am:
mothra wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 9:46am:
It doesn't matter how smart you are, Cods. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Just don't lie whilst taking thinly veiled pot-shots at other posters and you won's be called on it.



well if you can tell me where I am SMART   I could reply to that..



thinly veiled threats     Roll Eyes Roll Eyes is that the same as thinly veiled pot-shots?..

its not what I say

its how it is  processed ....

thats important to a conversation..

everything I say is wrong as far as you are concerned mothra...which is of course your absolute right...

you treat a lot of what people say! with contempt..

I agree you are very dedicated to your causes..
but we all have our own special causes  mine happens to be children all children...but those living in todays climate not years ago...

I am sorry for what happened years ago but think its more about seeing we do better in the here and now...

I like serious topics  where the more noise and talking about can inspire change..

but I dont like being bullied for not agreeing with everyone...

and thats how you make me feel...

as you can see we all have opinions about each other...





No Cods, when i agree with you i say so .. just as i commended a post you made the other day.


YES YOU DID BUT NO INTERACTION ON WHAT I SAID...

I don't hold grudges. I tend to fight the ball, not the player. If i agree with i will say so ... if i do not agree with you, i will say so.

REALLY   YET EVERY POST YOU HAVE A DIG AT MYSELF...YEP EVEN THIS ONE..

Thinly veiled threats
? Where? Has that sprung from the same fertile imagination that compelled you to accuse e of hacking you? Twice?


I MENTIONED IN MY REPLY..

YOU SEE WE ALL READ WHAT WE WANT TO READ....I THINK I MENTIONED THAT AS WELL..

Quote:
and you won's be called on it.


I WONT BE CALLED ON AS YOU PUT IT   IF I SHUT UP..


THATS HOW I READ YOUR COMMENT


JUST THE SAME AS YOU READ MY COMMENT ABOUT YOU HACKING MY ACCOUNT.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



As for bullying, only yesterday you were [highlight]piling on to a post that wished me dead.

really .... really.  I made one comment to hammer about mothballs....which I deleted when you let fly at me....

one lousy comment  which wasnt too you.. or directed at you...and its PILING IT ON as far as you are concerned..

you are so convinced you are right on everything.. why is it you find so many members arguing with you over almost everything.. Angry Angry Angry




people in glass houses, Cods.
Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

me throwing stones.......I do not know what to say....

I have apologised... for a comment you took offense at....the slightest thing I get wrong.. about a link and you explode

I do not engage with you anymore...

just what is it you want mothra????>..

spit it out... I dont tell lies I make mistakes...as I did about that link...whats so terrible about that????????????????????????????

dont pretend because you said.. "Good Post" that excuses everything else I have taken from you...

I need neither your applause or bullying....thank you.

you have turned me off several topics on here.. because I find you abrasive...

and all that C&p is not my idea of debate..and moving forward
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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #191 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:48pm
 
Quite the dummy spit, Cods.

So you always do this when you are proven wrong?
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cods
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #192 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:55pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:48pm:
Quite the dummy spit, Cods.

So you always do this when you are proven wrong?




which part did I GET WRONG this time? Roll Eyes
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Karnal
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #193 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:09pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:48pm:
Quite the dummy spit, Cods.

So you always do this when you are proven wrong?


Oh no, Cods does it anyway.

She's quite flexible that way.
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cods
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #194 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:19pm
 
Karnal wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:09pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:48pm:
Quite the dummy spit, Cods.

So you always do this when you are proven wrong?


Oh no, Cods does it anyway.

She's quite flexible that way.

now now pet   back to the oral sex thread.. you are at your best there. I am sure..
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