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Top blokes, totally out of character (Read 4406 times)
mothra
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Top blokes, totally out of character
Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:38am
 
Top blokes, totally out of character: when five white men beat an Aboriginal man to death



These are the facts, as they were agreed to by the perpetrators. After a long night of drinking, Scott Doody, Timothy Hird, Joshua Spears, Anton Kloeden, and Glen Swain left a casino at 6am in the morning of 25 July 2009. They ranged in age from 18–23. Most of them were drunk, but Kloeden, the driver, was not.

Kloeden, in the words of Chief Justice Martin, then thought it would be fun to ‘take on the challenge of driving along the Todd River bed to the Telegraph Station’. Even more fun, Kloeden then ‘made the offensive and stupid decision to harass the Aboriginal people camped in the riverbed’, nearby Schwarz Crescent causeway. They drove towards a group of at least six campers. The campers fled to trees for safety, except for an elderly Aboriginal person, who was too elderly to respond with adequate speed. Kloeden drove within a metre of him, with the intention of terrifying him by narrowly missing him.

Having driven away Kloeden turned the car back to the camp due to a fenced off exit. Kloeden had not yet had enough fun for the night: he drove over the elderly man’s swag as they passed the camp again. One female camper, who saw the young men coming, threw a small log at their car. Some of the men got out of the car and ‘yelled abuse’ at the Aboriginal campers. The form of this abuse was not recorded.

The night, now morning, was not yet over. Kloeden thought there was more fun to be had, so he drove at another Aboriginal camping group. The three Aboriginal people were sleeping. They were woken up by the car speeding towards them, and fled for their lives. Kloeden parked near the campers, and again ‘words were exchanged’. The sort of words exchanged is not yet on the public record.

After this, the group decided to return to the home of Hird and Swain. Fun was still to be had. Once there, the group picked up more alcohol, Hird’s gun and blank ammunition. They drove along and Hird shot his gun, though at one point it jammed. As they approached Schwarz Crescent causeway, they stopped the car so that Hird could fix his gun. Having fixed it, he shot it again. Justice Martin noted that the car was intentionally stopped so that Hird would be able to ‘scare the Aboriginal occupants’ of the first camp they had terrorised previously.

This goal was achieved. As Swain testified to the police, the campers began running, and obviously ‘feared for their lives’, according to the judge’s rendition of Swain. Hird plainly contributed to this by holding the pistol outside the car in the direction of the camp.

An Aboriginal man, Kwementyaye Ryder, was one of the campers who had been terrorised by Kloeden’s driving in the first instance. He responded this time by throwing a bottle, which hit the side of the car.

Kloeden immediately executed a sudden u-turn. He stopped so close to Ryder that Ryder could grab the bullbar. All four passengers raced out of the car, with Hird the first one out. Without checking the damage to the car, they chased Ryder, who tripped and fell. Confronted with a man ‘lying defenceless and incapable of posing any threat to any of the offenders’, they repeatedly kicked him in the head, and Spears struck his head with a bottle. They told him ‘Don’t bugger with us’.

Swain, who had kicked Ryder in the head twice, noticed he was lying motionless, and that something was plainly wrong. He called out ‘Let’s go’, considering that the most appropriate reaction. They got into the car. Kloeden hadn’t gotten out of the car because he was executing a three-point-turn. Apparently untroubled by what he saw, Kloeden was ‘seen to drive away at a leisurely, normal pace’.

The men proceeded to lie to the police over the course of a week. Swain and Kloeden lied to the police, saying they had gone by themselves to a racecourse and fallen asleep there. Hird lied to the police, saying that he had gone to the casino with Doody and hadn’t seen Swain or Kloeden. Justice Martin did not comment on it, but the matching alibis point to some collusion among the defendants.

Justice Martin noted to the defendants that it was apparent they ‘would inevitably be caught’, which may help explain why Swain offered a full confession within a week. Out of the group of five, Swain was the ‘only person who made a full and frank confession to the police and who gave them every assistance possible’.

Those are the facts. Justice Martin then had the task of interpreting them. He concluded that this ‘crime is toward the lower end of the scale of seriousness for crimes of manslaughter’. Not enough violence was inflicted, and the defendants supposedly could not have foreseen a serious risk of death from their violent attack. Repeatedly kicking someone in the head and hitting him with a bottle and then fleeing when the victim was motionless is apparently not recklessness, but negligence to Justice Martin.

Justice Martin then considered the possible value of inflicting a heavier sentence for deterrence value. He dismissed this too. His grounds for this are particularly striking: the violence ‘arose out of an angry and aggressive reaction to a perceived insult’. Plainly, there could be no value in deterrence with a mere crime of violence perpetrated by intoxicated youths responding to a perceived insult.

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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #1 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:38am
 
What didn’t feature in his discussion of deterrence was what he acknowledged repeatedly was the ‘atmosphere of antagonism towards Aboriginal persons’ manifested by the defendants. Nor was this mentioned as an aggravating feature. Which goes much of the way towards explaining his lenient sentencing: Doody, who did not physically strike Ryder, was sentenced to four years imprisonment to be suspended after 12 months. Hird, Kloeden and Spears were sentenced to six years imprisonment, with a non-parole period of 4 years. Swain had half a year taken off both measures, on account of his confession.

Yet there is one other factor which played a crucial role in Justice Martin’s sentencing, and is arguably the most appalling part of his decision. Justice Martin went out of his way to provide character references for every single defendant. Doody is ‘a person of positive good character’. Hird is a ‘solid, hard-working young man of good character’. Kloeden has an ‘underlying good character’. Spears is a ‘person of very good character’. Swain, like Kloeden, was a ‘person of underlying good character’. These men of good character repeatedly terrorised Aboriginal people for being Aboriginal, before getting a gun to terrorise them further, ending the night by beating a man to death, and then casually driving away without checking if their victim was okay.

Justice Martin’s grounds for these conclusions are astonishing. He notes character references in their favour, proving that many of them have friends and employers who think nice things about them. This hardly balances out what they did. He then scrapes the barrel in special pleading on their behalf, holding, for example, that Spears had never previously ‘come into contact with the criminal law’. Considering he was 18 at the time, this is hardly such an achievement. Hird, Kloeden, and Swain, on the other hand, despite their youth had previously had difficulties with the law. Yet Justice Martin was able to claim that this was ‘totally out of character’ for all of them, and also that they were ‘genuinely sorry’. Presumably he was able to judge their tremendous remorse from how they casually left the scene of the motionless man who soon died from their beating. This too was in their character. Or perhaps their remorse was manifested in the lies they worked on together to tell the cops. Or perhaps he judged their remorse in the fact that four out of five of them didn’t cooperate with the police at all, and the only one did when it was already apparent that they would be caught.

What was missing from Justice Martin’s sentencing remarks, and sentence, was a sense of revulsion at what happened. The five young men engaged in recreational activities that wouldn’t be out of place in a gathering of Klansmen.

This disgusting crime was not just an attack on Ryder. It was an attack on Aboriginal people in Australia. It – and Martin’s judgement – was an attack on our decency as a people. I am appalled as a human being to live in a country where such a terrible crime can take place, where the media and public intellectuals – with the honourable exception of National Indigenous Times Chris Graham, who gave me the judgement on Friday – have reacted with complete indifference. I am horrified as a Jewish person to live in a country where a member of a small, vulnerable minority can be victimised in such a shocking manner, and the perpetrators can still be described as basically good people.


https://overland.org.au/2010/05/top-blokes-totally-out-of-character-when-five-wh...
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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #2 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:39am
 
Why wasn't this all over the media at the time?

What could possibly excuse this judge?

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gandalf
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #3 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:54am
 
mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:39am:
Why wasn't this all over the media at the time?

What could possibly excuse this judge?



Because the lefty media is too busy apologising for and covering up those dastardly minoriti...

oh wait...
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #4 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:57am
 
gandalf wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:54am:
mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:39am:
Why wasn't this all over the media at the time?

What could possibly excuse this judge?



Because the lefty media is too busy apologising for and covering up those dastardly minoriti...

oh wait...



Yes indeed.

But the Aboriginal people probably bring it on themselves ... seeing as their of a different race to us and don't assimilate.
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cods
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #5 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:58am
 
how do you know it wasnt????...all over the media in 2009/10???????..

for what reason are you bringing it up now?....it happened 7 years ago.

its horrible stuff...but talking about why wasnt it all over the media wont change that...

gandy may have a point...but if its racism you are looking at,. may I suggest you contact the Judge...

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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #6 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:04am
 
cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:58am:
how do you know it wasnt????...all over the media in 2009/10???????..

for what reason are you bringing it up now?....it happened 7 years ago.

its horrible stuff...but talking about why wasnt it all over the media wont change that...

gandy may have a point...but if its racism you are looking at,. may I suggest you contact the Judge...



I think i would remember it. I am thoroughly disgusted.

Are you not disgusted Cods?

And i am "bringing it up" because it has only just come to my attention.

Anyway, why didn't you ask Gordy why he brought up the Punchbowl Primary story? That was years ago too.

No comment?
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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #7 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:06am
 
Did the article Cods?

"I am appalled as a human being to live in a country where such a terrible crime can take place, where the media and public intellectuals – with the honourable exception of National Indigenous Times Chris Graham, who gave me the judgement on Friday – have reacted with complete indifference."
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cods
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #8 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:06am
 
mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:04am:
cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:58am:
how do you know it wasnt????...all over the media in 2009/10???????..

for what reason are you bringing it up now?....it happened 7 years ago.

its horrible stuff...but talking about why wasnt it all over the media wont change that...

gandy may have a point...but if its racism you are looking at,. may I suggest you contact the Judge...



I think i would remember it. I am thoroughly disgusted.

Are you not disgusted Cods?

And i am "bringing it up" because it has only just come to my attention.

Anyway, why didn't you ask Gordy why he brought up the Punchbowl Primary story? That was years ago too.

No comment?




Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #9 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:07am
 
So no comment then.

Typical.
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cods
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #10 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:09am
 
mothra I cannot argue or talk with you..

everything is WAR with you.. I prefer less stress thank you..

I did answer I highlighted the comment you claim I didnt make....
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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #11 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:14am
 
cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:09am:
mothra I cannot argue or talk with you..

everything is WAR with you.. I prefer less stress thank you..

I did answer I highlighted the comment you claim I didnt make....


No Cods. It's not all WAR with me.

I just stand my ground.

But i'm not interested in what you think of me .. what do you think of of a judge who lets a bunch of hooligans terrorise Aboriginal people for hours and then kill one refer to them as "good blokes" and give the such pissy little sentences?

Do you have an opinion on that?
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cods
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #12 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:28am
 
mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:14am:
cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:09am:
mothra I cannot argue or talk with you..

everything is WAR with you.. I prefer less stress thank you..

I did answer I highlighted the comment you claim I didnt make....


No Cods. It's not all WAR with me.

I just stand my ground.

But i'm not interested in what you think of me .. what do you think of of a judge who lets a bunch of hooligans terrorise Aboriginal people for hours and then kill one refer to them as "good blokes" and give the such pissy little sentences?

Do you have an opinion on that?



there you go...already disagreeing..

its how I see you... not what you think...

but yes I do. but I wont expand because whatever I say you will shoot full of holes...so far you have done that with everything in every single thread I have given an opinion...

mothra... I mean virtually  everything...lets leave it at that....
you see you argue....
I dont want to do that...back and forth.. saying the same thing a dozen different ways  stresses me out..

I have an opinion and so do you.. we do not agree on just about everything...

I dont need an opinion on something that happened 7 years ago... whats the point.. I am more concerned with today..bringing up old wounds doesnt heal anything in my opinion.. its history its set in concrete cannot be changed cannot be undone....I prefer we are better than this judges summing up...and hope we have come a long way since then...

if we are doing that thats all I can hope for...

we sadly have a situation now where the Stolen Generation is doing far more harm.. than it ever did all those years ago...

our future generations are going to have to find a way to live with the history we are creating RIGHT NOW.in 2017

Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad
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mothra
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #13 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:35am
 
cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:28am:
mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:14am:
cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:09am:
mothra I cannot argue or talk with you..

everything is WAR with you.. I prefer less stress thank you..

I did answer I highlighted the comment you claim I didnt make....


No Cods. It's not all WAR with me.

I just stand my ground.

But i'm not interested in what you think of me .. what do you think of of a judge who lets a bunch of hooligans terrorise Aboriginal people for hours and then kill one refer to them as "good blokes" and give the such pissy little sentences?

Do you have an opinion on that?



there you go...already disagreeing..

its how I see you... not what you think...

but yes I do. but I wont expand because whatever I say you will shoot full of holes...so far you have done that with everything in every single thread I have given an opinion...

mothra... I mean virtually  everything...lets leave it at that....
you see you argue....
I dont want to do that...back and forth.. saying the same thing a dozen different ways  stresses me out..

I have an opinion and so do you.. we do not agree on just about everything...

I dont need an opinion on something that happened 7 years ago... whats the point.. I am more concerned with today..bringing up old wounds doesnt heal anything in my opinion.. its history its set in concrete cannot be changed cannot be undone....I prefer we are better than this judges summing up...and hope we have come a long way since then...

if we are doing that thats all I can hope for...

we sadly have a situation now where the Stolen Generation is doing far more harm.. than it ever did all those years ago...

our future generations are going to have to find a way to live with the history we are creating RIGHT NOW.in 2017

Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad


There i go again?

I'm standing my ground Cods. I don't agree with you summation of me. I a quite entitled to say so.

Now, have a look back through this thread and see who drew first blood.

Did you ask Gordy why he started a thread on something that happened years ago?

And what the hell do you mean you "don't need to have an opinion on this"?

What the hell are you doing in this thread then?
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cods
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Re: Top blokes, totally out of character
Reply #14 - Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:46am
 
mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:35am:
cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:28am:
mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:14am:
cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:09am:
mothra I cannot argue or talk with you..

everything is WAR with you.. I prefer less stress thank you..

I did answer I highlighted the comment you claim I didnt make....


No Cods. It's not all WAR with me.

I just stand my ground.

But i'm not interested in what you think of me .. what do you think of of a judge who lets a bunch of hooligans terrorise Aboriginal people for hours and then kill one refer to them as "good blokes" and give the such pissy little sentences?

Do you have an opinion on that?



there you go...already disagreeing..

its how I see you... not what you think...

but yes I do. but I wont expand because whatever I say you will shoot full of holes...so far you have done that with everything in every single thread I have given an opinion...

mothra... I mean virtually  everything...lets leave it at that....
you see you argue....
I dont want to do that...back and forth.. saying the same thing a dozen different ways  stresses me out..

I have an opinion and so do you.. we do not agree on just about everything...

I dont need an opinion on something that happened 7 years ago... whats the point.. I am more concerned with today..bringing up old wounds doesnt heal anything in my opinion.. its history its set in concrete cannot be changed cannot be undone....I prefer we are better than this judges summing up...and hope we have come a long way since then...

if we are doing that thats all I can hope for...

we sadly have a situation now where the Stolen Generation is doing far more harm.. than it ever did all those years ago...

our future generations are going to have to find a way to live with the history we are creating RIGHT NOW.in 2017

Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad


There i go again?

I'm standing my ground Cods. I don't agree with you summation of me. I a quite entitled to say so.

Now, have a look back through this thread and see who drew first blood.

Did you ask Gordy why he started a thread on something that happened years ago?

And what the hell do you mean you "don't need to have an opinion on this"?

What the hell are you doing in this thread then?



?????????
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