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western civilisation before Islam (Read 22516 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #135 - Mar 27th, 2017 at 10:17pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 10:01pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 7:09pm:
depends on where you judge the arabian peninsular to end/begin


I was waiting for someone to bring that up, Gandalf.  According to most Geographers, the definition of a Peninsular is "a mass of land surrounded on three sides by water...".   According to the map that FD posted, less than 10% of the Arabian peninsular was under Roman occupation.   If we look at other maps of the Roman Empire, at it's high point, they all vary as to how much of the Arabian Peninsular was controlled by Rome.  Some have it at 10% (which is, IMO very generous) most have a great deal less.




SO there WAS a Roman presence in the Arabian Peninsula, you stupid old aunt with a 'masters degree in history, enabling you feel licensed to say eyewateringly idiotic things'.
That's the big picture, isn't it - you are proudly trained to be a mor0n.


*SIGH*, more ad hominem debate, hey, Soren?  Sorry, did you want to make a point or are you just blathering as per usual?  Tsk, tsk.    Roll Eyes
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #136 - Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:19am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 7:09pm:
depends on where you judge the arabian peninsular to end/begin


I was waiting for someone to bring that up, Gandalf.  According to most Geographers, the definition of a Peninsular is "a mass of land surrounded on three sides by water...".   According to the map that FD posted, less than 10% of the Arabian peninsular was under Roman occupation.   If we look at other maps of the Roman Empire, at it's high point, they all vary as to how much of the Arabian Peninsular was controlled by Rome.  Some have it at 10% (which is, IMO very generous) most have a great deal less.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/49/92/6b/49926b9340931c52321eedcf...

https://dwellingintheword.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/r15-map1.jpg

http://www.wmw.ca/romemaps/romeover.gif

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Roman_Empire_with_provinces_...

http://www.keyway.ca/gif/romanemp.gif


But every single one shows the Roman Empire had part of the peninsula, just as I have been saying, and you have been denying (even with the map in front of you)?
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Brian Ross
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #137 - Mar 28th, 2017 at 5:29pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 7:19am:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 7:09pm:
depends on where you judge the arabian peninsular to end/begin


I was waiting for someone to bring that up, Gandalf.  According to most Geographers, the definition of a Peninsular is "a mass of land surrounded on three sides by water...".   According to the map that FD posted, less than 10% of the Arabian peninsular was under Roman occupation.   If we look at other maps of the Roman Empire, at it's high point, they all vary as to how much of the Arabian Peninsular was controlled by Rome.  Some have it at 10% (which is, IMO very generous) most have a great deal less.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/49/92/6b/49926b9340931c52321eedcf...

https://dwellingintheword.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/r15-map1.jpg

http://www.wmw.ca/romemaps/romeover.gif

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Roman_Empire_with_provinces_...

http://www.keyway.ca/gif/romanemp.gif


But every single one shows the Roman Empire had part of the peninsula, just as I have been saying, and you have been denying (even with the map in front of you)?


Less than 10% and that is being IMO overly generous, FD.  Keep trying to bend reality to support your Islamophobia, it's amusing to watch.   Rome never controlled the Arabian Peninsular.  QED.

So, how did the fall of Rome, directly affect Mohammed again?  It didn't control the Peninsular, something other posters have confirmed...    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #138 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 9:38am
 
Here you go Brian, would you like to take any of this back? If I were you I'd be asking for a refund on that $20 history degree.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 11:11pm:
Show me the evidence that the Roman Empire ruled anywhere in the Arabian peninsular, FD.   Also show me, what effect the Roman Empire had directly on Muhammed, then yes, I will apologise.  I have seen no evidence of either here or elsewhere.    Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26th, 2017 at 3:09pm:
By your own first map, the Roman empire did not extend into the Arabian Peninsular, FD so I am unsure why you keep claiming it did.   Keep trying, it's amusing watching you distort reality to your Islamophobic view of the world.   Rome, either the Western or Eastern Empires had absolutely zilch to do with the Arabian Peninsular from a political viewpoint, FD.  Zilch.  So, how does this prove I am wrong, again?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 5:05pm:
Mmm, weren't the Jews in control of Mecca, before the Muslims?   


I've never seen it take so long to resolve such a simple point Brian, especially seeing that we started with a map showing the Roman Empire extending into the Arabian Peninsula.
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #139 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:26pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 10:17pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 10:01pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 7:09pm:
depends on where you judge the arabian peninsular to end/begin


I was waiting for someone to bring that up, Gandalf.  According to most Geographers, the definition of a Peninsular is "a mass of land surrounded on three sides by water...".   According to the map that FD posted, less than 10% of the Arabian peninsular was under Roman occupation.   If we look at other maps of the Roman Empire, at it's high point, they all vary as to how much of the Arabian Peninsular was controlled by Rome.  Some have it at 10% (which is, IMO very generous) most have a great deal less.




SO there WAS a Roman presence in the Arabian Peninsula, you stupid old aunt with a 'masters degree in history, enabling you feel licensed to say eyewateringly idiotic things'.
That's the big picture, isn't it - you are proudly trained to be a mor0n.


*SIGH*, more ad hominem debate, hey, Soren?  Sorry, did you want to make a point or are you just blathering as per usual?  Tsk, tsk.    Roll Eyes



Cacthing you out for being stupid and/or dishonest is not ad hominem, Brain.

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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #140 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:25pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 9:38am:
Here you go Brian, would you like to take any of this back? If I were you I'd be asking for a refund on that $20 history degree.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 11:11pm:
Show me the evidence that the Roman Empire ruled anywhere in the Arabian peninsular, FD.   Also show me, what effect the Roman Empire had directly on Muhammed, then yes, I will apologise.  I have seen no evidence of either here or elsewhere.    Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26th, 2017 at 3:09pm:
By your own first map, the Roman empire did not extend into the Arabian Peninsular, FD so I am unsure why you keep claiming it did.   Keep trying, it's amusing watching you distort reality to your Islamophobic view of the world.   Rome, either the Western or Eastern Empires had absolutely zilch to do with the Arabian Peninsular from a political viewpoint, FD.  Zilch.  So, how does this prove I am wrong, again?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 5:05pm:
Mmm, weren't the Jews in control of Mecca, before the Muslims?   


I've never seen it take so long to resolve such a simple point Brian, especially seeing that we started with a map showing the Roman Empire extending into the Arabian Peninsula.


I think you need to learn the definition of "into", FD before posting again.  The Roman Empire did not extend "into" the Arabian Peninsular.  It was on it's periphery at best.   Now run along, you're starting to bore me.  I've proved you wrong, again.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #141 - Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:26pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 6:26pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 10:17pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 10:01pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 7:09pm:
depends on where you judge the arabian peninsular to end/begin


I was waiting for someone to bring that up, Gandalf.  According to most Geographers, the definition of a Peninsular is "a mass of land surrounded on three sides by water...".   According to the map that FD posted, less than 10% of the Arabian peninsular was under Roman occupation.   If we look at other maps of the Roman Empire, at it's high point, they all vary as to how much of the Arabian Peninsular was controlled by Rome.  Some have it at 10% (which is, IMO very generous) most have a great deal less.




SO there WAS a Roman presence in the Arabian Peninsula, you stupid old aunt with a 'masters degree in history, enabling you feel licensed to say eyewateringly idiotic things'.
That's the big picture, isn't it - you are proudly trained to be a mor0n.


*SIGH*, more ad hominem debate, hey, Soren?  Sorry, did you want to make a point or are you just blathering as per usual?  Tsk, tsk.    Roll Eyes


Cacthing you out for being stupid and/or dishonest is not ad hominem, Brain.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor Soren.  Poor Soren.  I think it's time you visited your Doctor again and had another session...    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #142 - Mar 30th, 2017 at 10:53am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:25pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 9:38am:
Here you go Brian, would you like to take any of this back? If I were you I'd be asking for a refund on that $20 history degree.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 11:11pm:
Show me the evidence that the Roman Empire ruled anywhere in the Arabian peninsular, FD.   Also show me, what effect the Roman Empire had directly on Muhammed, then yes, I will apologise.  I have seen no evidence of either here or elsewhere.    Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26th, 2017 at 3:09pm:
By your own first map, the Roman empire did not extend into the Arabian Peninsular, FD so I am unsure why you keep claiming it did.   Keep trying, it's amusing watching you distort reality to your Islamophobic view of the world.   Rome, either the Western or Eastern Empires had absolutely zilch to do with the Arabian Peninsular from a political viewpoint, FD.  Zilch.  So, how does this prove I am wrong, again?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 5:05pm:
Mmm, weren't the Jews in control of Mecca, before the Muslims?   


I've never seen it take so long to resolve such a simple point Brian, especially seeing that we started with a map showing the Roman Empire extending into the Arabian Peninsula.


I think you need to learn the definition of "into", FD before posting again.  The Roman Empire did not extend "into" the Arabian Peninsular.  It was on it's periphery at best.   Now run along, you're starting to bore me.  I've proved you wrong, again.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Right, and the Jews were in control of Mecca?
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Brian Ross
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #143 - Mar 30th, 2017 at 4:40pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 30th, 2017 at 10:53am:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:25pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 9:38am:
Here you go Brian, would you like to take any of this back? If I were you I'd be asking for a refund on that $20 history degree.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 11:11pm:
Show me the evidence that the Roman Empire ruled anywhere in the Arabian peninsular, FD.   Also show me, what effect the Roman Empire had directly on Muhammed, then yes, I will apologise.  I have seen no evidence of either here or elsewhere.    Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26th, 2017 at 3:09pm:
By your own first map, the Roman empire did not extend into the Arabian Peninsular, FD so I am unsure why you keep claiming it did.   Keep trying, it's amusing watching you distort reality to your Islamophobic view of the world.   Rome, either the Western or Eastern Empires had absolutely zilch to do with the Arabian Peninsular from a political viewpoint, FD.  Zilch.  So, how does this prove I am wrong, again?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 5:05pm:
Mmm, weren't the Jews in control of Mecca, before the Muslims?   


I've never seen it take so long to resolve such a simple point Brian, especially seeing that we started with a map showing the Roman Empire extending into the Arabian Peninsula.


I think you need to learn the definition of "into", FD before posting again.  The Roman Empire did not extend "into" the Arabian Peninsular.  It was on it's periphery at best.   Now run along, you're starting to bore me.  I've proved you wrong, again.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Right, and the Jews were in control of Mecca?


Were they?  Really?  Gosh!   Roll Eyes
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #144 - Mar 30th, 2017 at 6:07pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2017 at 4:40pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 30th, 2017 at 10:53am:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:25pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 9:38am:
Here you go Brian, would you like to take any of this back? If I were you I'd be asking for a refund on that $20 history degree.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 11:11pm:
Show me the evidence that the Roman Empire ruled anywhere in the Arabian peninsular, FD.   Also show me, what effect the Roman Empire had directly on Muhammed, then yes, I will apologise.  I have seen no evidence of either here or elsewhere.    Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26th, 2017 at 3:09pm:
By your own first map, the Roman empire did not extend into the Arabian Peninsular, FD so I am unsure why you keep claiming it did.   Keep trying, it's amusing watching you distort reality to your Islamophobic view of the world.   Rome, either the Western or Eastern Empires had absolutely zilch to do with the Arabian Peninsular from a political viewpoint, FD.  Zilch.  So, how does this prove I am wrong, again?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 5:05pm:
Mmm, weren't the Jews in control of Mecca, before the Muslims?   


I've never seen it take so long to resolve such a simple point Brian, especially seeing that we started with a map showing the Roman Empire extending into the Arabian Peninsula.


I think you need to learn the definition of "into", FD before posting again.  The Roman Empire did not extend "into" the Arabian Peninsular.  It was on it's periphery at best.   Now run along, you're starting to bore me.  I've proved you wrong, again.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Right, and the Jews were in control of Mecca?


Were they?  Really?  Gosh!   Roll Eyes


It's your story Brian, not mine. According to you, the Jews were in control of Medina, and the Roman Empire did not extend into the Arabian Peninsula, because you have managed to redefine "into" somehow.
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Brian Ross
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #145 - Mar 30th, 2017 at 10:14pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 30th, 2017 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2017 at 4:40pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 30th, 2017 at 10:53am:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:25pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2017 at 9:38am:
Here you go Brian, would you like to take any of this back? If I were you I'd be asking for a refund on that $20 history degree.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 25th, 2017 at 11:11pm:
Show me the evidence that the Roman Empire ruled anywhere in the Arabian peninsular, FD.   Also show me, what effect the Roman Empire had directly on Muhammed, then yes, I will apologise.  I have seen no evidence of either here or elsewhere.    Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26th, 2017 at 3:09pm:
By your own first map, the Roman empire did not extend into the Arabian Peninsular, FD so I am unsure why you keep claiming it did.   Keep trying, it's amusing watching you distort reality to your Islamophobic view of the world.   Rome, either the Western or Eastern Empires had absolutely zilch to do with the Arabian Peninsular from a political viewpoint, FD.  Zilch.  So, how does this prove I am wrong, again?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 5:05pm:
Mmm, weren't the Jews in control of Mecca, before the Muslims?   


I've never seen it take so long to resolve such a simple point Brian, especially seeing that we started with a map showing the Roman Empire extending into the Arabian Peninsula.


I think you need to learn the definition of "into", FD before posting again.  The Roman Empire did not extend "into" the Arabian Peninsular.  It was on it's periphery at best.   Now run along, you're starting to bore me.  I've proved you wrong, again.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Right, and the Jews were in control of Mecca?


Were they?  Really?  Gosh!   Roll Eyes


It's your story Brian, not mine. According to you, the Jews were in control of Medina, and the Roman Empire did not extend into the Arabian Peninsula, because you have managed to redefine "into" somehow.


So why ask about Mecca? Tsk, tsk, you don't have your story straight, do you, FD?   Roll Eyes
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #146 - Mar 30th, 2017 at 10:38pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 7:19pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 6:01pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 6:20pm:
Rome ruled parts of it.

In any case, what exactly is the problem Brian?


Your claim that Mohammed was affected by the destruction of the Roman Empire.   He wasn't.  He was born some 700 years later.   Tsk. tsk.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Not quite - the western Roman Empire collapsed during the 5th century, Muhammad was born in the 6th century.

And its more accurate to say the early Caliphate benefited most from the mutual destruction of the two rival super-powers on their doorstep: the Sassanids and the East Romans. The muslims were able to sweep through and simultaneously conquer both with relatively little destruction - with most of the populations welcoming them as liberators. Far from "sweeping aside" and annihilating the locals, the muslims introduced the dhimmi system - both elevating the locals to a privileged status not seen by virtually any
western subject population to that time, and in doing so, benefiting the Caliphate economy. Far from annhialating and/or mass converting the non-muslim populations they conquered - the muslims came to heavily rely on an efficient economic model that relied on protecting a happy and productive non-muslim subject population.

And I see FD is once again peddling his beloved 'depopulated Mediterranean coastline due to muslim slave-traders' fairy tale. We'll just ignore the fact that the Mediterranean slave traders didn't start until about the 17th century under the Ottomans - and focus on the fact that FD's own favourite economic data compiled by Ian Morris - does not reveal any evidence whatsoever of any depopulation or economic decline caused by the muslim raids/settlements that happened along some Mediterranean coastlines during the period he is talking about. On the contrary, historical evidence clearly shows that such places experienced relatively more prosperity under Muslim rule. All this has been shown to FD before.


What a complete load of horse $hit!
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #147 - Mar 31st, 2017 at 6:57pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 7:19pm:
The muslims were able to sweep through and simultaneously conquer both with relatively little destruction - with most of the populations welcoming them as liberators.



Grin Grin Grin Grin

Yeah, people LOVE being dhimmis, such a liberation!!!
I can't see much difference between Mohammed and Stalin. They are psycho dictator cut from the same cloth. Ruthless, yet adored murderers for the 'greater good'.  Preposterous, sinister, pathologically deformed bastards.

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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #148 - Mar 31st, 2017 at 9:16pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 31st, 2017 at 6:57pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 7:19pm:
The muslims were able to sweep through and simultaneously conquer both with relatively little destruction - with most of the populations welcoming them as liberators.



Grin Grin Grin Grin

Yeah, people LOVE being dhimmis, such a liberation!!!
I can't see much difference between Mohammed and Stalin. They are psycho dictator cut from the same cloth. Ruthless, yet adored murderers for the 'greater good'.  Preposterous, sinister, pathologically deformed bastards.



Muhammad set an example of slaughtering anyone who did not bow down for him. Sometimes he just went and slaughtered people for being pagans. The people loved him for it, and opened their city gates to him, all eager to convert to his wonderful new religion.
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Re: western civilisation before Islam
Reply #149 - Mar 31st, 2017 at 11:25pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 31st, 2017 at 6:57pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 7:19pm:
The muslims were able to sweep through and simultaneously conquer both with relatively little destruction - with most of the populations welcoming them as liberators.



Grin Grin Grin Grin

Yeah, people LOVE being dhimmis, such a liberation!!!
I can't see much difference between Mohammed and Stalin. They are psycho dictator cut from the same cloth. Ruthless, yet adored murderers for the 'greater good'.  Preposterous, sinister, pathologically deformed bastards.



Sorry, old chap, what's the difference between this and FD's decent-white dictatorship? I ask you this as an intermediary.

You're half-Kraut, no?
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