Australian Politics Forum - Islamists back sacked principal

freediver

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #30 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 5:03pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 4:46pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 4:37pm:

Do they reject Muhammad's career as a militant political leader as being contrary to the principles of Islam?

And if they don't that magically makes them a political movement I suppose?

Does it ever occur to you that muslims might have a different interpretation of the historical Muhammad than you?

Apparently they think he was on a mission from God.

Do even Sufi's support Muhammed's action of merging religion and state?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #31 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 6:14pm

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 5:03pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 4:46pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 4:37pm:

Do they reject Muhammad's career as a militant political leader as being contrary to the principles of Islam?

And if they don't that magically makes them a political movement I suppose?

Does it ever occur to you that muslims might have a different interpretation of the historical Muhammad than you?

Apparently they think he was on a mission from God.

Do even Sufi's support Muhammed's action of merging religion and state?

It is simply laughable to use such arguments to argue that the suffis today are some sort of political movement.

The point is suffism is an example of a version of Islam that is about the exact opposite of a political ideology - regardless of what version of history you attempt to shove down its adherents' throats.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #32 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 6:20pm

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:17am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 9^th, 2017 at 8:50am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9^th, 2017 at 12:18am:

How does, "Islamic Group" get translated in your mind, Gordon to "Islamists"? You do realise, as I am sure you do, that "Islamists" are very different to Islamic Groups. You're an Islamophobe, aren't you, Gordon? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Brian support HuT.
At least your views are out in the open now.

"Islamic Groups" are very different to "Islamist groups", Gordon. Obviously your Islamophobia has blinded you to reality. Roll Eyes

May I ask you what an Islamist is?

edit: Not you Yadda, Brian.

"Islamist" is a militant or fundamentalist follower of Islam, Setanta. Whether that person's view is inimical to Western views is up to what that person believes and how far they are willing to carry that belief to fruitition. Rather as a "Christian Fundamentalist" might be someone who believes in the glory and justification of The Bible. What they do with that belief determines if they engage in Terrorism or just protest.

"Islamic Groups" are simply groups of Muslims who have banded together to present their views on a particular issue. They maybe influenced by their beliefs in Islam but not entirely. They are more moderate than Islamists.

Personally, I have a scale (in reverse order):

Muslims
Islamic Groups
Salafists
Islamists
Terrorists

Ordinary Muslims come at the lower end of the scale, ranging up to Terrorists. I don't doubt there are many other groups in their, mixed in, as well.

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Gordon

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #33 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 6:41pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 6:20pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:17am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 9^th, 2017 at 8:50am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9^th, 2017 at 12:18am:

How does, "Islamic Group" get translated in your mind, Gordon to "Islamists"? You do realise, as I am sure you do, that "Islamists" are very different to Islamic Groups. You're an Islamophobe, aren't you, Gordon? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Brian support HuT.
At least your views are out in the open now.

"Islamic Groups" are very different to "Islamist groups", Gordon. Obviously your Islamophobia has blinded you to reality. Roll Eyes

May I ask you what an Islamist is?

edit: Not you Yadda, Brian.

"Islamist" is a militant or fundamentalist follower of Islam, Setanta. Whether that person's view is inimical to Western views is up to what that person believes and how far they are willing to carry that belief to fruitition. Rather as a "Christian Fundamentalist" might be someone who believes in the glory and justification of The Bible. What they do with that belief determines if they engage in Terrorism or just protest.

"Islamic Groups" are simply groups of Muslims who have banded together to present their views on a particular issue. They maybe influenced by their beliefs in Islam but not entirely. They are more moderate than Islamists.

Personally, I have a scale (in reverse order):

Muslims
Islamic Groups
Salafists
Islamists
Terrorists

Ordinary Muslims come at the lower end of the scale, ranging up to Terrorists. I don't doubt there are many other groups in their, mixed in, as well.

Do you consider HuT to be an Islamist group?

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Gnads

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #34 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 6:54pm

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:40am:

See, that's why I said not you Yadda. You fill pages with shyte no-one reads.

I read it ... and so should you

calling a members post shyte is not the actions of a non biased moderator.

The same could be said of your input.

Not that I think that .... other than your response to Yadda.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gordon

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #35 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 6:56pm

Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 6:54pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:40am:

See, that's why I said not you Yadda. You fill pages with shyte no-one reads.

I read it ... and so should you

calling a members post shyte is not the actions of a non biased moderator.

The same could be said of your input.

Not that I think that .... other than your response to Yadda.

I think that was a way of saying Yadda needs an editor.

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IBI

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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 31417 Gender:	Re: Islamists back sacked principal Reply #36 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 7:00pm And the rest of us?
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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21133 Gordon Gender:	Re: Islamists back sacked principal Reply #37 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 7:04pm Gnads wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 7:00pm: And the rest of us? I got my Mumbai tech guy to write a Firefox plug in that auto detects Yadda posts and edits them down for my viewing pleasure; )
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Islamists back sacked principal Reply #38 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:52pm Islam is the religion. Islamism the belief of imposing the religion of Islam on other people.
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Brian Ross

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #39 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:54pm

Auggie wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:52pm:

Islam is the religion. Islamism the belief of imposing the religion of Islam on other people.

Not necessarily. Islamism covers a wide range of beliefs and viewpoints. Some Islamists just want to promote Islam over all other religions without any agenda to do so, other want to use the sword and bathe the world in blood. Attempting to classify a religo-political movement in that manner is pointless. You have to examine each person and their views on their merits.

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Auggie

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #40 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:57pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:54pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:52pm:

Islam is the religion. Islamism the belief of imposing the religion of Islam on other people.

Not necessarily. Islamism covers a wide range of beliefs and viewpoints. Some Islamists just want to promote Islam over all other religions without any agenda to do so, other want to use the sword and bathe the world in blood. Attempting to classify a religo-political movement in that manner is pointless. You have to examine each person and their views on their merits.

Correct, there are a variety of methods; they could be democratic or by violent means.

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Setanta

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #41 - Mar 12^th, 2017 at 1:31am

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 6:20pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:17am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 9^th, 2017 at 8:50am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9^th, 2017 at 12:18am:

How does, "Islamic Group" get translated in your mind, Gordon to "Islamists"? You do realise, as I am sure you do, that "Islamists" are very different to Islamic Groups. You're an Islamophobe, aren't you, Gordon? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Brian support HuT.
At least your views are out in the open now.

"Islamic Groups" are very different to "Islamist groups", Gordon. Obviously your Islamophobia has blinded you to reality. Roll Eyes

May I ask you what an Islamist is?

edit: Not you Yadda, Brian.

"Islamist" is a militant or fundamentalist follower of Islam, Setanta. Whether that person's view is inimical to Western views is up to what that person believes and how far they are willing to carry that belief to fruitition. Rather as a "Christian Fundamentalist" might be someone who believes in the glory and justification of The Bible. What they do with that belief determines if they engage in Terrorism or just protest.

"Islamic Groups" are simply groups of Muslims who have banded together to present their views on a particular issue. They maybe influenced by their beliefs in Islam but not entirely. They are more moderate than Islamists.

Personally, I have a scale (in reverse order):

Muslims
Islamic Groups
Salafists
Islamists
Terrorists

Ordinary Muslims come at the lower end of the scale, ranging up to Terrorists. I don't doubt there are many other groups in their, mixed in, as well.

Where do you get your definition of "ist" Brian?
Quote:

ist
ɪst/
nouninformalderogatory
a follower of a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement.
"you can't be born an ist"

Quote:

-ist
Word Origin
1.
a suffix of nouns, often corresponding to verbs ending in -ize or nouns ending in -ism, that denote a person who practices or is concerned with something, or holds certain principles, doctrines, etc.:
apologist; dramatist; machinist; novelist; realist; socialist; Thomist.

An Islamist is someone that follows Islam, IE a Moslem.

There's no need for a separate name. They are followers of Islam. It's like political correctness. No, he wasn't a Moslem, he was an Islamist. Roll Eyes

Just say it like it is, radical fundamentalist Moslem, no need for a new term.

It's not FMG, it's just a bit of cutting, no mutilation at all. Jesus Christ call a spade a spade.

Quote:

mutilate
ˈmjuːtɪleɪt/
verb
inflict a violent and disfiguring injury on.
"most of the prisoners had been mutilated"
synonyms: mangle, maim, disfigure, cut to pieces, cut up, hack up, butcher, dismember, tear limb from limb, tear apart, lacerate
"many of the bodies had been mutilated"
inflict serious damage on.

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« Last Edit: Mar 12^th, 2017 at 1:43am by Setanta »

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Auggie

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #42 - Mar 12^th, 2017 at 8:40am

Setanta wrote on Mar 12^th, 2017 at 1:31am:

An Islamist is someone that follows Islam, IE a Moslem.

There's no need for a separate name. They are followers of Islam. It's like political correctness. No, he wasn't a Moslem, he was an Islamist.

Just say it like it is, radical fundamentalist Moslem, no need for a new term.

It's not FMG, it's just a bit of cutting, no mutilation at all. Jesus Christ call a spade a spade.

Hold on, Setanta, I thought you were a leftist?

There is a distinction between Islam and Islamism; this is well known within counter-ideology circles. No one is down-playing the ideology that drives transnational criminal activities (i.e. terrorism). To solely attribute it to the religion of Islam is to attribute Karl Marx to the terrors of Communist regimes.

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freediver

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #43 - Mar 12^th, 2017 at 9:27am

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 6:14pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 5:03pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 4:46pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 4:37pm:

Do they reject Muhammad's career as a militant political leader as being contrary to the principles of Islam?

And if they don't that magically makes them a political movement I suppose?

Does it ever occur to you that muslims might have a different interpretation of the historical Muhammad than you?

Apparently they think he was on a mission from God.

Do even Sufi's support Muhammed's action of merging religion and state?

It is simply laughable to use such arguments to argue that the suffis today are some sort of political movement.

The point is suffism is an example of a version of Islam that is about the exact opposite of a political ideology - regardless of what version of history you attempt to shove down its adherents' throats.

I am not shoving anything down their throat Gandalf. I am asking what their own opinion is regarding Muhammad's efforts to merge religion, government and military into one movement. In typical Muslim fashion, you will not say and choose to pretend I am asking something completely different.

Is this really the best example you can come up with?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Auggie

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #44 - Mar 12^th, 2017 at 9:42am

freediver wrote on Mar 12^th, 2017 at 9:27am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 6:14pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 5:03pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 4:46pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 4:37pm:

Do they reject Muhammad's career as a militant political leader as being contrary to the principles of Islam?

And if they don't that magically makes them a political movement I suppose?

Does it ever occur to you that muslims might have a different interpretation of the historical Muhammad than you?

Apparently they think he was on a mission from God.

Do even Sufi's support Muhammed's action of merging religion and state?

It is simply laughable to use such arguments to argue that the suffis today are some sort of political movement.

The point is suffism is an example of a version of Islam that is about the exact opposite of a political ideology - regardless of what version of history you attempt to shove down its adherents' throats.

I am not shoving anything down their throat Gandalf. I am asking what their own opinion is regarding Muhammad's efforts to merge religion, government and military into one movement. In typical Muslim fashion, you will not say and choose to pretend I am asking something completely different.

Is this really the best example you can come up with?

Muhammad's efforts to merge religion, government and military into one movement was fundamentally against God's message in the Quran. I'm not whitewashing history; I"m saying that those things should've never been included in the Quran.

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