Australian Politics Forum - Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen

Yadda

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Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Feb 28^th, 2017 at 10:02pm

Does freedom of speech give us the right to offend others ?

- asks Stan Grant - 7.30 Report

That is OK Stan Grant, that is a good question to ask.

[    my answer;
i have no direct influence, upon how other people choose to 'feel', within themselves.
people do that, to themselves.
we all choose to be happy, or sad, or angry, ourselves.
i.e.       TAKE RESPONSIBILITY !!!    ]

But i also want Australians to ask another question.

Q.
Does the right of freedom of religion [that we are all 'entitled' to publicly express within a Western nation like Australia], give local moslems the right to promote religiously sanctioned violence and religious bigotry ?

Because imo [if we will allow them to do so],          moslems want to take to themselves, the right to practice their 'religion' [ISLAM], as it is practiced, within a moslem majority jurisdiction. !!

Google;
does freedom of speech give us the right to offend ?

.

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IMAGE...

"BEHEAD ALL THOSE WHO INSULT THE PROPHET"

Sydney, 2012, moslem street protests.

'Aussie' moslems on a Sydney street, openly demonstrating and exposing to public view, the violent religious bigotry which ISLAM, has put into their hearts.

'Aussie' moslems on a Sydney street, openly demanding their right to exercise their 'freedom of religion'.

Demanding the 'religious freedom', to kill people who offend them, because they do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

< --------- Those 'Aussie' moslems are engaging in the commission of a HATE CRIME, on 'MAIN ST', Australia!!!

Those 'Aussie' moslems are inciting cultural and political hatred and cultural and political violence, against all Australians [i.e. against the government, of the people of Australia].

And those 'Aussie' moslems are engaged in this type of incitement, inter-cultural and political hatred, simply because many of us, are not moslems, and because Australians do not share the views and opinions of 'Aussie' moslems.

.

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IMAGE...

THOSE PLACARDS, AT A MOSLEM STREET PROTEST, 2006, IN LONDON READ.....

"Slay those who insult Islam"
"Behead those who insult Islam"
"Massacre those who insult Islam"
"Butcher those who mock Islam"
"Europe you will pay, demolition is on its way"
"Europe you will pay, extermination is on its way"
"Exterminate those who slander Islam"
"Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer"
"Islam will dominate the world"
"Freedom go to hell"
"Europe take some lessons from 9/11"
"Be prepared for the real Holocaust"
"BBC = British Blasphemic Crusaders"

.

Q.
Are moslems and ISLAM the type of people and the type of philosophy, that we want to welcome, to 'be a part of' our community, in Australia ?

MY OWN RESPONSE TO THAT QUESTION, IS NO !!

Why so ?

Because ISLAM, is a philosophy which promotes deceit, intimidation, political violence, and murder and oppression.

ISLAM is murderous, death cult.

.

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

Google;

islam, unbelief is worse than killing

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Grendel

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #1 - Mar 1^st, 2017 at 7:57am

Stan OFFENDS me just about every time I see and hear him on TV.
Bwian offends me daily, so does Aussie.

One man's insult could be another man's sarcasm. Or irony or any number of ways Australians banter with each other.

We should change 18C and D and why does the HREOC even exist its a waste of money, Triggs and that idiot Soutphommasane should get real jobs.

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Karnal

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #2 - Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:27am

Grendel wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 7:57am:

Stan OFFENDS me just about every time I see and hear him on TV.
Bwian offends me daily, so does Aussie.

One man's insult could be another man's sarcasm. Or irony or any number of ways Australians banter with each other.

We should change 18C and D and why does the HREOC even exist its a waste of money, Triggs and that idiot Soutphommasane should get real jobs.

Ah yes, but the law works on what a reasonable person would consider offence.

That's the difference.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen Reply #3 - Mar 1^st, 2017 at 3:07pm Ah no it doesn't anyone can make a claim and it can be drawn out for years, and in the end like the QUT and Leach complaints be found unfounded. Meanwhile ??????
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Aussie

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #4 - Mar 1^st, 2017 at 3:26pm

Grendel wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 3:07pm:

Ah no it doesn't anyone can make a claim and it can be drawn out for years, and in the end like the QUT and Leach complaints be found unfounded. Meanwhile ??????

That's the way the Law works, Grendel. People are entitled to make claims in the Judicial System.....and they will take a great deal of time to be resolved. 'Meanwhile ??????'

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BigOl64 Gold Member Offline Posts: 14438 Townsville QLD Gender:	Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen Reply #5 - Mar 1^st, 2017 at 3:26pm It should, but since we do not have any real codified freedoms or rights, the social justice warriors can calm their tits for a while longer.
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Grendel

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #6 - Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:12pm

Aussie wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 3:26pm:

Grendel wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 3:07pm:

Ah no it doesn't anyone can make a claim and it can be drawn out for years, and in the end like the QUT and Leach complaints be found unfounded. Meanwhile ??????

That's the way the Law works, Grendel. People are entitled to make claims in the Judicial System.....and they will take a great deal of time to be resolved. 'Meanwhile ??????'

Face it Offendi... you are a clown... if bogus claims were not allowed to be made in the first place... guess what...? Grin

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Unforgiven

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #7 - Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:16pm

Grendel wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:12pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 3:26pm:

Grendel wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 3:07pm:

Ah no it doesn't anyone can make a claim and it can be drawn out for years, and in the end like the QUT and Leach complaints be found unfounded. Meanwhile ??????

That's the way the Law works, Grendel. People are entitled to make claims in the Judicial System.....and they will take a great deal of time to be resolved. 'Meanwhile ??????'

Face it Offendi... you are a clown... if bogus claims were not allowed to be made in the first place... guess what...? Grin

Grendel, you pathetic, perpetual, whiner. Is there no end to you?

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39227 Gender:	Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen Reply #8 - Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm Quote: Face it Offendi... you are a clown... if bogus claims were not allowed to be made in the first place... guess what...? There's only one way to find out if a claim is bogus Grendel and that is what the Judicial System does. Neither you nor I get to decide on that at a threshold point.
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Raven

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #9 - Mar 1^st, 2017 at 11:46pm

Even the very champions of free speech, USA, have limitations on free speech in regards to insult.

The so called fighting words doctrine.

In 1942, the U.S. Supreme Court established the doctrine by a 9–0 decision in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. Chaplinsky, a Jehovah's Witness, had purportedly told a New Hampshire town marshal who was attempting to prevent him from preaching that he was "a God-damned racketeer" and "a damned fascist" and was arrested. The court upheld the arrest and wrote in its decision that

Quote:

There are certain well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous, and the insulting or "fighting words" those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality.

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Yadda

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #10 - Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 12:40am

Raven wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 11:46pm:

Even the very champions of free speech, USA, have limitations on free speech in regards to insult.

The so called fighting words doctrine.

In 1942, the U.S. Supreme Court established the doctrine by a 9–0 decision in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. Chaplinsky, a Jehovah's Witness, had purportedly told a New Hampshire town marshal who was attempting to prevent him from preaching that he was "a God-damned racketeer" and "a damned fascist" and was arrested. The court upheld the arrest and wrote in its decision that

Quote:

There are certain well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous, and the insulting or "fighting words" those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality.

It could have been too,

that the charge/accusation made against the town marshal, as being "a God-damned racketeer" and "a damned fascist" could not be substantiated [by the accuser/utterer]
[or that a reasonable person would not hold that such charges/accusations should be made in a public place, unless they could shown to have some basis in truth].

Dictionary;
substantiate = = provide evidence to support or prove the truth of.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Unforgiven Gold Member Offline I have sinned Posts: 8879 Gender:	Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen Reply #11 - Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 1:37am Yadda, your hate rants are an offense against humanity.
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Grendel

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #12 - Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 6:46am

Aussie wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

Quote:

Face it Offendi... you are a clown... if bogus claims were not allowed to be made in the first place... guess what...?

There's only one way to find out if a claim is bogus Grendel and that is what the Judicial System does. Neither you nor I get to decide on that at a threshold point.

You are such a dolt.
HREOC is there to take on board claims bogus and otherwise they are supposed to filter out the bogus claims the problem is they don't.

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Frank

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #13 - Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 7:23am

Aussie wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

Quote:

Face it Offendi... you are a clown... if bogus claims were not allowed to be made in the first place... guess what...?

There's only one way to find out if a claim is bogus Grendel and that is what the Judicial System does. Neither you nor I get to decide on that at a threshold point.

It is not something for a judicial system to concern itself with.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen Reply #14 - Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 1:14pm Well said Frank, I doubt very much it will sink in. Aussie thinks every decision in life apparently must go through the judiciary... He probably calls up judges to see what he should have for dinner each night.
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