Australian Politics Forum - Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact

Panther Gold Member Offline My Heart beats True for the Red White & Blue... Posts: 11116 Gender:	Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact Reply #30 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 7:48pm President Trump will be leaving the Paris agreement to hang out to dry............whither on the vine.........without the USA it will self-strangle, with no chance of resuscitation in any form!
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 43638 Gender:	Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact Reply #31 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:37pm Economics will see more and more coal fired generators close.
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Rider Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2669 OnTheRoad Gender:	Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact Reply #32 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:41pm Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:37pm: Economics will see more and more coal fired generators close. Yes and new more economic ones will open. What on earth is your point? If you have one.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 43638 Gender:	Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact Reply #33 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 9:02pm Won’t be new coal fired power stations.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16422 Gender:	Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact Reply #34 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 9:06pm Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:37pm: Economics will see more and more coal fired generators close. Only if renewables keep getting horrendous subsidies.
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tickleandrose

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Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact
Reply #35 - Feb 27^th, 2017 at 12:37pm

Either with or without carbon tax, the price of carbon based fuels are rising. Noted, even though crude oil have more or less geopolitical implications, but the process of refining it, transporting and then selling it, are costing more and more. This combined with the fact that electrical storage technology and non carbon based electric generation is getting cheaper, it would not be long before the market sort itself out.

Carbon based energy may be only costing less now, but the amount of environmental damage, the land and environmental impact needed to support both the infrastructure and extraction process will cost the taxpayer for many generations to come. Companies comes and go, but they left gigantic holes behind that is practically unusable for anything else. For example: Hazelwood mine fire 2014, Morwell, Victoria. The fire burn for 45 days straight in an area that is supposingly undergoing rehabilitation. The health cost to the local community is huge. These are the costs that are not factored in when you sell coal at 30 to 40 dollars a ton.

And indeed, looking ahead for example 100 or may be just 50 years. Fossil fuel and Coal are both finite resources. In order for the human race to prosper into the future. Carbon based energy production will have to be replaced by non carbon based. It is the least available form of energy in the known universe. We are at an early to mid stage of this transformation. The key to prosperity of any country on Earth is whoever figure out how to do cost effective renewable energy first.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 43638 Gender:	Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact Reply #36 - Feb 27^th, 2017 at 1:18pm Supplies of coal are huge, oil/gas are the more scarce resource.
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Panther Gold Member Offline My Heart beats True for the Red White & Blue... Posts: 11116 Gender:	Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact Reply #37 - Feb 27^th, 2017 at 6:45pm Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 9:02pm: Won’t be new coal fired power stations.
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Panther

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Trump will leave UN Climate Pact
Reply #38 - Feb 27^th, 2017 at 6:48pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 9:02pm:

Won’t be new coal fired power stations.

Really???!! ........... Think again!

What happened to 151 proposed Coal Plants in America ?

Source: CMD
Quote:

Beginning around the year 2000, in response to increases in natural gas prices, utilities across the United States began a renewed push to build new coal-fired electricity generating plants and coal-fueld synthetic fuels plants.

The National Energy Technology Laboratory, a division of the Department of Energy, issues periodic updates of "Tracking New Coal-Fired Power Plants," a database of such projects, but that report ceased providing project-specific information after May 2007.

The May 2007 list, which showed 151 proposed coal plants, received widespread publicity and helped galvanize the movement for a coal moratorium.[1] As of December 2013, the status of the plants shown on the list was as follows:

Cancelled, abandoned, or on hold: 106
Early stages of development: 3
Advanced stages of development: 1
★★ In operation or under construction: 41

In addition to the 151 proposed coal plants listed in the May 2007 NETL report, additional coal projects have been identified by the Sierra Club, which maintains the "Stopping the Coal Rush" database. As of October 2015, the list included 236 projects:

Active: 17
Cancelled: 189
★★ Progressing: 30

Who is CMD?

Quote:

The Center for Media and Democracy is a national watchdog group that conducts in-depth investigations into corruption and the undue influence of corporations on media and democracy.

The findings of CMD's investigative journalism are regularly cited by the leading national and state newspapers in the U.S., including the New York Times, the Guardian, and the Washington Post. CMD's reporting is credited by news shows on major broadcast stations including HBO, Showtime, PBS, NBC, CBS, and others, and has also been featured on in-depth news programs, such as Moyers & Company, Democracy Now, and the Thom Hartmann Show, as well as NPR and other public broadcasting agencies, such as the BBC and CBC.

Now the CMD.....an anti-coal group (linked to the famous greenie Sierra Club) in the USA publishes these figures.

They are admitting that not only are coal plants in America increasing, that since the Trump victory in November, applications are increasing at higher levels, & now because they have a friend in the White House, Coal will be making it's comeback in America!

America will be building new Clean-Coal Powered Power Generating Plants

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« Last Edit: Feb 27^th, 2017 at 7:06pm by Panther »

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Panther Gold Member Offline My Heart beats True for the Red White & Blue... Posts: 11116 Gender:	Trump wants to, & will, leave UN Climate Pact Reply #39 - Feb 27^th, 2017 at 7:20pm Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 1:18pm: Supplies of coal are huge, oil/gas are the more scarce resource. Surely you jest!! List of Countries by Proven Oil Reserves (link)
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Panther

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Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact
Reply #40 - Feb 27^th, 2017 at 7:50pm

lee wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 9:06pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:37pm:

Economics will see more and more coal fired generators close.

Only if renewables keep getting horrendous subsidies.

Not only that but they are frauds......Solar.....they say they will buy excess electricity from you.....original contract they pay you 42 cents per kwh.....

Now, when the contract is over you pay them 38 cents per kwh for what you use, & they will pay you only 6 cents per kwh for the excess you generate.......

In effect, after the initial contract is over, you pay way more buying back the electricity you sold them......paying more for your own energy!!

Solar........what a scam!

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Dnarever

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Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact
Reply #41 - Feb 27^th, 2017 at 9:22pm

Rider wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:02pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:39am:

All that hysteria. Mummy Mummy don’t let them change ANYthing, I afraid of change, Waaaaaah!

Coal is dirty and dangerous to mine.

Burning coal dumps CO2 into the atmosphere causing global warming. It also causes repiratory diseases in some of those in the areas around the coal fired power station

Coal fired generators are becoming stranded assets through divestment of coal assets by investors and banks. Rooftop solar increasingly cuts demand in the most profitable part of the day for coal fired generators. Solar is cheaper than coal.

Coal has had its day.

Yes coal dust can cause health issues. So can burnt toast. The rest is utter dribbling bollocks.

Lucky that nobody works in burnt toast mines ?

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Dnarever

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Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact
Reply #42 - Feb 27^th, 2017 at 9:39pm

lee wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 4:10pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 4:03pm:

You could also quote his mate Mockton ?

Who?

Dnarever wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 4:03pm:

Most of this guys claims have been debunked, it is a load of rubbish. He was likely retired for a reason.

Perhaps you can supply a peer-reviewed paper? Wink

He doesn't produce anything that can be reviewed he is not an active scientist any more and the rubbish he sprouts has been thoroughly debunked by current science time after time.

As you know 4 times as many scientist have advised Trump to stay in the convention.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 43638 Gender:	Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact Reply #43 - Feb 27^th, 2017 at 9:43pm If Trumpy pulls out the Chinese assume leadership in another area. They do more drilling because of Trumpy then more natural gas wells will be developed further sounding the death knell for coal fired power.
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lee

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Re: Scientists ask Trump to leave UN Climate pact
Reply #44 - Feb 27^th, 2017 at 9:51pm

Dnarever wrote on Feb 27^th, 2017 at 9:39pm:

He doesn't produce anything that can be reviewed he is not an active scientist any more and the rubbish he sprouts has been thoroughly debunked by current science time after time.

Who Mockton? Lindzen?

Of course if they don't produce anything; how is it debunked? Wink

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