Australian Politics Forum - Indonesia sues Australia

rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Indonesia sues Australia Reply #75 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 5:58pm .....
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rhino

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Re: Indonesia sues Australia
Reply #76 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 6:02pm

Valkie wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 5:56pm:

I doubt that Australia would have incarcerated them with adults if they knew the were children.
But you know that when asked they either denied everything, lied and refused to cooperate with the authorities.
They are there simply because they committed a crime and refused to be identified.

Sorry, completely incorrect. These juveniles willingly cooperated and gave full details from the start. Their claims of age were denied due to the wrist scans. There were also individuals processing them who knew they were children but their claims were also denied in favour of the wrist scans.

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Unforgiven

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Re: Indonesia sues Australia
Reply #77 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 6:10pm

rhino wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 6:02pm:

Valkie wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 5:56pm:

I doubt that Australia would have incarcerated them with adults if they knew the were children.
But you know that when asked they either denied everything, lied and refused to cooperate with the authorities.
They are there simply because they committed a crime and refused to be identified.

Sorry, completely incorrect. These juveniles willingly cooperated and gave full details from the start. Their claims of age were denied due to the wrist scans. There were also individuals processing them who knew they were children but their claims were also denied in favour of the wrist scans.

Valkie confesses he lied in a previous post.

Clearly, Australian authorities were in the wrong.

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rhino

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Re: Indonesia sues Australia
Reply #78 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 6:17pm

The AFP have a lot to answer for. They knew there was doubt about these childrens ages yet willingly allowed them to be incarcerated in adult maximum security prisons using unreliable wrist scan data as evidence of age. In many cases documentation from Indonesia could have easily been requested but either wasnt or was ignored. I would support the paying of compensation to these kids. I will also say that these crew members incarcerated came from mainly the poorest remote areas of Indonesia, in many cases were illiterate.

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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Indonesia sues Australia Reply #79 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 6:17pm flip.
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Brian Ross

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Re: Indonesia sues Australia
Reply #80 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 7:12pm

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:38am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:48pm:

Oh dear, more Xenophobia and ignorance about the law.

It is not illegal to seek Asylum on Australia's shores. Even the Federal Government has stopped short of trying that. The High Court has forced it to stop calling Asylum Seekers, "illegals". Time you did as well. Catch up with the legal side, please.

They are unlawful non-citizens, regardless of what they or you want to call them. And as such they can and must be detained, where ever we detained 'unlawfuls', for as long as it takes to process them or send them back from whence they came.

Partially correct. They have sought Asylum, Bigol64 so their official, legal title is "Asylum Seeker" until their Asylum has been granted or refused. If granted, they become "Refugees" and are granted asylum. If refused, they are then term "unlawful immigrants" until it is decided if their entry into Australia's migration zone is illegal or not, then they become "illegal immigrants". Immigration law is a tangled mess because of successive Governments attempting to sidestep their obligations. Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Indonesia sues Australia
Reply #81 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 7:19pm

Valkie wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:14pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:02pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 4:22pm:

Indonesia is legally allowed to sue Australia for wrongful incarceration of minors.

It's typical of some sorts of people that they use this as an excuse to again bag the Indonesians on unrelated matters.

It is not an excuse for Indonesia to attack Australia militarily. Indonesia knows that their forces are neither equipped nor trained to undertake a successful military campaign against Australia. Their air force would be grounded with hours, more than likely destroyed. Their navy would be confined to port. Their ground forces would be useless. Their economy would be paralysed and wrecked within a few weeks.

I do wish certain people would wake up to how silly they sound on these forums with their endless tirades of Racism/Xenophobia/Islamophobia. Roll Eyes

Can we criticise them for hypocrisy in not suing those who are actually responsible for sending children on an illegal smuggling operation?

If those people have committed something illegal, then yes you can, FD, to your heart's content but it is a separate matter to Australia's illegal incarceration of minors and concerns Indonesian Law, not Australian Law. Illegal incarceration of minors in Australian gaols however concerns Australian law.

Start a separate thread on it. Go at it to your heart's content but you cannot use it as a means to shirk Australia's responsibilities. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Great, we can charge them under Indonesian monkey law and then behead them just like they do.

Problem solved.

Too bad they aint female, we could Genitally mutilate them and sell them off to the pedophile infested Indonesian muzzos.

Racism? Oh, well, what else can we expect from you, Valkie. Run along, the grown ups have things to discuss. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Indonesia sues Australia
Reply #82 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 7:21pm

rhino wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 5:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:48am:

They had a trial, and their conviction and imprisonment in adult gaols was based on what evidence again? Oh, that's right, wrist x-rays. So, we are back to where we started again. Stop being a fool, Rhino. Roll Eyes

*sigh* Wrist x rays were not part of their trials if they had one. Most of these people spent around 2 years in remand waiting for a trial. Read my lips, wrist x rays were used to determine their adult status in order to incarcerate them in adult detention facilities. Nothing to do with their actual trials for people smuggling. You are fairly thick Brian but even you should be able to understand this.

Really? Was that too hard to say in the first place, Rhino? Funny, the Parliamentary Library differs in your view. Tsk, tsk. Wrist x-rays were used in their trials to determine their ages. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Indonesia sues Australia
Reply #83 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 7:44pm

Valkie wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 5:56pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 5:42pm:

cods wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:18pm:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-18154044

Inside the oldest children's prison in Indonesia
22 May 2012 Last updated at 10:38 BST
The Tangerang Penitentiary is the oldest children prison in Indonesia and has special facilities to provide its inmates - over 200 boys between 16 and 18 years old - with some education.
But not all the underage inmates are sent to juvenile prisons. In fact, a third of children are still sent to adult prisons in the country.
Activists say that their living conditions do not meet the standards required by the UN Convention on children's welfare.
The government says it does not have the budget to build more juvenile prisons like the Tangerang Penitentiary.
BBC Indonesia's Kinanti Pinta reports.
Video produced by BBC Indonesia's Sri Lestari

well well well... seems its a bit of the old pot and kettle.. Angry

I bet the kids are treated a lot better in our jails than in their own..

Cods evidently believes Australia should be in a race to the bottom in regard to incarceration of juveniles, especially Indonesian Muslims.

Its got nothing to do with the conditions or the fact that, Alleged, Children were incarcerated with adults.
This is all about how much the monkeys can get out of Australia.

Do any of you honestly think that Joko has even the slightest consideration for the Alleged Kids?
Do you think he would waste even a seconds thought on their plight?
Do you think any Indonesian give a flying Fingle about their fellows?

You all know the answers, but its not about truth or honesty.
Its all about looking for another stick with which to beat the Australian people.

They committed a crime.
I doubt that Australia would have incarcerated them with adults if they knew the were children.
But you know that when asked they either denied everything, lied and refused to cooperate with the authorities.
They are there simply because they committed a crime and refused to be identified.

Your racism is embarrassing, Valkie. Stop it before you go blind. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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rhino

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Re: Indonesia sues Australia
Reply #84 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:22pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 7:21pm:

rhino wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 5:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:48am:

They had a trial, and their conviction and imprisonment in adult gaols was based on what evidence again? Oh, that's right, wrist x-rays. So, we are back to where we started again. Stop being a fool, Rhino. Roll Eyes

*sigh* Wrist x rays were not part of their trials if they had one. Most of these people spent around 2 years in remand waiting for a trial. Read my lips, wrist x rays were used to determine their adult status in order to incarcerate them in adult detention facilities. Nothing to do with their actual trials for people smuggling. You are fairly thick Brian but even you should be able to understand this.

Really? Was that too hard to say in the first place, Rhino? Funny, the Parliamentary Library differs in your view. Tsk, tsk. Wrist x-rays were used in their trials to determine their ages. Roll Eyes

Yes Brian, but not to determine their guilt, get it? Its been a long road for you, it seems its finally dawning on you.

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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Indonesia sues Australia Reply #85 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:24pm F me, theres some thickos around.
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rhino

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Re: Indonesia sues Australia
Reply #86 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:26pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:48am:

They had a trial, and their conviction and imprisonment in adult gaols was based on what evidence again? Oh, that's right, wrist x-rays.

Their convictions were based on evidence of people smuggling, dolt. Their legal status in order to be prosecuted was based on wrist scans, dolt.

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Valkie

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Re: Indonesia sues Australia
Reply #87 - Feb 28^th, 2017 at 7:28am

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 7:44pm:

Valkie wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 5:56pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 5:42pm:

cods wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:18pm:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-18154044

Inside the oldest children's prison in Indonesia
22 May 2012 Last updated at 10:38 BST
The Tangerang Penitentiary is the oldest children prison in Indonesia and has special facilities to provide its inmates - over 200 boys between 16 and 18 years old - with some education.
But not all the underage inmates are sent to juvenile prisons. In fact, a third of children are still sent to adult prisons in the country.
Activists say that their living conditions do not meet the standards required by the UN Convention on children's welfare.
The government says it does not have the budget to build more juvenile prisons like the Tangerang Penitentiary.
BBC Indonesia's Kinanti Pinta reports.
Video produced by BBC Indonesia's Sri Lestari

well well well... seems its a bit of the old pot and kettle.. Angry

I bet the kids are treated a lot better in our jails than in their own..

Cods evidently believes Australia should be in a race to the bottom in regard to incarceration of juveniles, especially Indonesian Muslims.

Its got nothing to do with the conditions or the fact that, Alleged, Children were incarcerated with adults.
This is all about how much the monkeys can get out of Australia.

Do any of you honestly think that Joko has even the slightest consideration for the Alleged Kids?
Do you think he would waste even a seconds thought on their plight?
Do you think any Indonesian give a flying Fingle about their fellows?

You all know the answers, but its not about truth or honesty.
Its all about looking for another stick with which to beat the Australian people.

They committed a crime.
I doubt that Australia would have incarcerated them with adults if they knew the were children.
But you know that when asked they either denied everything, lied and refused to cooperate with the authorities.
They are there simply because they committed a crime and refused to be identified.

Your racism is embarrassing, Valkie. Stop it before you go blind. Roll Eyes

Bwyyyannnn

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The insect is a joke.
Why aren't you working and handing your money over to all the people you so dearly love because they don't contribute?

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Valkie

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Re: Indonesia sues Australia
Reply #88 - Feb 28^th, 2017 at 7:35am

rhino wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 6:02pm:

Valkie wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 5:56pm:

I doubt that Australia would have incarcerated them with adults if they knew the were children.
But you know that when asked they either denied everything, lied and refused to cooperate with the authorities.
They are there simply because they committed a crime and refused to be identified.

Sorry, completely incorrect. These juveniles willingly cooperated and gave full details from the start. Their claims of age were denied due to the wrist scans. There were also individuals processing them who knew they were children but their claims were also denied in favour of the wrist scans.

This is because they always lie.
They are Indonesians, it is simply a way of life to them, eat, shite, lie.

Far too many times Australian authorities are lied to by these people.
So many times in fact that the Australian authorities no longer believe them and therefore look for other ways to determine the truth.
In this case, they used a known method of determining age, one used by forensics and which is quite accurate.
If they got it wrong, it was not deliberate, it was because they caught a criminal and used the only means available.

Indonesia does not treat its own people anywhere near as well as these Alleged children would have been treated had they committed a crime in Indonesia.
This whole thing is nothing but a beat up by a parasitic country that is attempting to squeeze more cash out of their host.

This must be stopped.
No more money to the monkeys.

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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU

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Brian Ross

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Re: Indonesia sues Australia
Reply #89 - Feb 28^th, 2017 at 3:55pm

rhino wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 7:21pm:

rhino wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 5:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 12:48am:

They had a trial, and their conviction and imprisonment in adult gaols was based on what evidence again? Oh, that's right, wrist x-rays. So, we are back to where we started again. Stop being a fool, Rhino. Roll Eyes

*sigh* Wrist x rays were not part of their trials if they had one. Most of these people spent around 2 years in remand waiting for a trial. Read my lips, wrist x rays were used to determine their adult status in order to incarcerate them in adult detention facilities. Nothing to do with their actual trials for people smuggling. You are fairly thick Brian but even you should be able to understand this.

Really? Was that too hard to say in the first place, Rhino? Funny, the Parliamentary Library differs in your view. Tsk, tsk. Wrist x-rays were used in their trials to determine their ages. Roll Eyes

Yes Brian, but not to determine their guilt, get it? Its been a long road for you, it seems its finally dawning on you.

Where did I claim it was used to determine their guilt or not? Tsk, tsk. Such silliness from you, Rhino. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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