freediver wrote on Dec 12^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:


'Islam' is a noun derived from the verbal root S-L-M, (سلم) I'm not entirely clear on the exact meaning of the root, but from the root we get a range of words like salaam (peace), Istsalaam (surrender) and other forms of words related to both peace and submission.

Given this seemingly dual role of this word, it occurs to me that in Islam, and in some respects the arabic language as well, 'peace' and 'submission' essentially have the same meaning. It makes sense to me, when you submit, especially in a religious sense, it is more about being 'at peace' with yourself when you embrace faith.

This obviously means re-framing our western understanding of 'submission' from a coercive concept to a concept that is entirely about free will. Its been said of Islam that 'submission' to faith and to God, is the ultimate freedom. Food for thought?

freediver wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 12:24pm:


/The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve - 18.29

there is no compulsion in religion - 2:256

And with the truth We have sent the Qur'an down, and with the truth it has descended. And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a bringer of good tidings and a warner. - 17:105

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 2:52pm:


Abu actually claimed once that it is not compulsion if you are given the option of dying instead of converting.

Gandalf, how do you explain Muhammad threatening the Jews of Medina with convert or die as soon as he was in a position to make the threat, after his first military victory against the Meccan traders he was in the habit of robbing?

Was Muhammad a hypocrite, or was he just another Muslim who does not mean what he says when he talks about no compulsion in religion?

freediver wrote on Dec 14^th, 2018 at 12:24pm:


Yeah nah, I don't think so.

freediver wrote on Dec 14^th, 2018 at 12:24pm:


Obviously I don't interpret it as a threat.

Aussie wrote on Dec 14^th, 2018 at 12:50pm:


Why do you even bother looking for "outs" for this abhorrent ideology? Should we use Mo's reasoning on the followers of Mo amongst us? There is certainly evidence of treasonous thoughts amongst them. I have to wonder if they are just a mindless collective.

freediver wrote on Dec 15^th, 2018 at 2:51pm:


You certainly raise an interesting point by turning this sinister veiled threat towards muslims into yet another 'lets mock muslims' meme.

You hound me day in day out for apparently being some nazi-esque anti-semite genocide supporting monster etc etc.... all based on a silly academic debating point on a most insignificant, obscure piece of 1400 year old ancient history. Yet when people actually do make genocidal-like threats against an actual vulnerable group living today in society - mass internment, mass deportation, collective punishment, FD's nowhere to be seen - or if you are, its to spinelessly apologise for them. 

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You got a video of him saying exactly that, Effendi?

Mo spoke perfect medieval English as well?