Frank wrote on Oct 16^th, 2018 at 7:50pm:


Always, absolutely, never ever.

Old boy post #1.

Frank wrote on Oct 16^th, 2018 at 7:50pm:


The great thing about this statement is its completely unfalsifiable - as you just define "Islam-positive-contribution" in any way you damn please. Mention the countless number of muslim scientists that helped and inspired western advancement? Too easy - just say they were not actually muslim and/or such scientific flowering happened in spite of Islam. Mention the unprecedented caliphate-blessed campaign to collect, interpret, develop and preserve Greek works? Just Christians and jews - who unfathomably were allowed to flourish intellectually and culturally under the "convert or die", barbarian caliphate.

I literally cannot argue against this Frank, God knows I've tried. I guess I never trully comprehended just how little actual facts matter in this debate. Never trully appreciated just how blatantly and unashamedly words and facts and logic can be obfuscated and twisted on its head. Just how anti-intellectual this debate can become. well done you win.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 11:13am:

You can't argue against it because it is true.

The 'Muslims scientists' argument is hollow and self-serving. They were not contribution to the West, they were self-justifications for Islam.  Islam has never been and never will be a disinterested force for human betterment. Everything Islam does is about justifying and advancing Islam- a primitive, bloody 7th century fantasy of a semi-literate Arab trader who turned warlord. It is a sordid tale talked up by other semi-literate Arabs.

Islam is a degradation of Western civilisation in every instance it comes into contact with the West. It is not an advancement or a positive step in any way.

If the Arab rabble were given a choice between Islam and Christianity or Judaism, they would have chosen anything but Islam were they not induced otherwise by the promise of loot, slaves and pussy.  You are dreadful slaves to sensuality, you Muslims.  It's that hair thing you have.

Auggie wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 8:31pm:



Your first paragraph is spot on, except for the "espousing the same things" part. Islamic science diverged in many important ways - perhaps most notably in first floating the heliocentric model, and Copernicus citing the works of muslim astronomers as inspiration for his model. But the point is, scientific advancement is pretty pointless if you just reinvent the wheel every time. It would be foolish not to build upon Greek works, and they should be given credit for doing so, not dismissed as being unoriginal.

As for your second paragraph, it is quite disingenuous. By "simply copied and borrowed existing ideas" - you are in fact referring to the greatest preservation and translation project in all of human history to that time. The Greek works that the caliphate organised to be meticulously and very systematically translated, reworked and preserved, ended up occupying the greatest libraries the world had seen to that point. Which spawned in Baghdad, Cordoba and Cairo, and other places, the greatest intellectual centres of the world in their time. All the while medieval monks (the only people who could pass in any way as "intellectual") in the west were literally rubbing out priceless ancient parchments to write the bible - because they had a chronic shortage of parchments.

Q/. Oh muslim doctor what is the cure for having my head chopped off?

A/. Convert to islam infidel pig.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 11:13am:



Not at all unfalsifiable, either if you look at the whole sentence as posted or the way you mutilated it. Islamic migration has contributes absolutely nothing positive to Western countries - indeed, Islam has not contributed anything positive to Muslim countries for at least half a milleannium.


Islam did what it did in the field of knowledge to justify itself at the light of the ancients. It has never done anything even in its so-called golden age to contribute to anyone else's civilisation let alone to the whole of humanity. The very idea is anathema to a Muslim mind steeped in Islam. Islam is not a universalist creed as Christianity is or as Western civilisation has been since antiquity. Islam is radically and doggedly two-tier, radically partisan and supremacist.

https://twitter.com/OnlineMagazin/status/1052965782991331329

The Christians and the Jews were allowed to 'flourish' insofar as it benefited and served Islam. Even today Muslims are baying for the blood of a Christian simply because she drank from a cup on a hot day.  That is the heart of Islam, that eternally strange, barbaric intolerance and petty rancour.

Post-war Islamic immigration has benefited no Western country - or any other non-Muslim country. The movement of Muslims into non-Muslim countries has brought only discord and degradation to each and every society that permitted it, Western or not.
Conversely, its exclusively Western ideas and technology that have made any development in Muslim countries possible. Those great and wondrous achievements of the Islamic mind have done absolutely nothing to lift Muslim countries out of poverty, tyranny, misery. All they do is keep them there.

Saudi - time to cut them loose.