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Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists (Read 23061 times)
Grendel
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Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Feb 23rd, 2017 at 12:34pm
 
Sooo... many today use various terms to try and distinguish what is going on in the world today re Islam and the West and within Islam.

I ask then what is the difference between a Muslim and an Islamist or between Islam and Islamism.

Over to you Gandalf...
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #1 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 12:38pm
 

"one-track mind: A mind completely obsessed with a single thought, idea, or desire; an extremely narrow point of view.

"This common expression alludes to a single set of railroad tracks on which trains can move in only one direction.

"As used today, the phrase often carries the disparaging implication that the possessor of such a mind stubbornly resists any consideration of alternative viewpoints."


Gordon
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Grendel
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #2 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 12:50pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23rd, 2017 at 12:38pm:
"one-track mind: A mind completely obsessed with a single thought, idea, or desire; an extremely narrow point of view.

"This common expression alludes to a single set of railroad tracks on which trains can move in only one direction.

"As used today, the phrase often carries the disparaging implication that the possessor of such a mind stubbornly resists any consideration of alternative viewpoints."


Gordon

Gordon's not here yet Gweggy shouldn't you wait till you TROLL someone?
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #3 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 1:01pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 23rd, 2017 at 12:34pm:
Sooo... many today use various terms to try and distinguish what is going on in the world today re Islam and the West and within Islam.

I ask then what is the difference between a Muslim and an Islamist or between Islam and Islamism.

Over to you Gandalf...


You might want to listen to Gandalf if he answers, Grendel.

Every Muslim I've discussed ISIS (or suicide bombing) with says it's not Muslim - can't possibly be the actions of a Muslim. They believe this crowd is anti-Muslim. There are even conspiracy theorists in the Muslim world who think Islamism is an anti-Islam plot.

Now I've seen imams on Youtube, etc, who do indeed spread hatred and division in the name of Islamic dogma. I don't think you can just make all this up. But my point is that I've never met a Muslim who agrees, and I can't see why they'd tell fibs. The Islamists I've seen on TV, etc, are very forthright about what they believe. Insh'allah, it seems to be all they talk about.

So rather than ignoring G's reply and carrying on with the usual, I suggest you pay heed. Instead of trying to rebut G's point of view and find points of difference, I suggest that you let it influence your thinking, which is, after all, why we usually ask questions.

We're curious, Grendel. We're keen to know more. Let's listen to a Muslim's point of view and say ah.
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issuevoter
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #4 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 1:35pm
 
First, they all have to follow the Koran to be a Muzlim, and they have to believe that Mohamed was the messenger of God. Show me a Muzlim who does not. You will only find such people safe behind pluralistic laws, that is until they reach a population of critical mass. Everywhere they have the numbers, they demand Islamic Law. Its starting in Turkey now, a country that once aspired to be Western.

The above four terms are interchangeable, but here come assertions that one or the other are not really Muzlims.
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No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #5 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 1:38pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Feb 23rd, 2017 at 1:35pm:
First, they all have to follow the Koran to be a Muzlim, and they have to believe that Mohamed was the messenger of God. Show me a Muzlim who does not. You will only find such people safe behind pluralistic laws, that is until they reach a population of critical mass. Everywhere they have the numbers, they demand Islamic Law. Its starting in Turkey now, a country that once aspired to be Western.

The above four terms are interchangeable, but here come assertions that one or the other are not really Muzlims.


Sounds like you know G's views already, Issue.

No worries. You don't have to be curious to come here, but it helps.

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moses
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #6 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 2:28pm
 
When will G and the apologists tell us what are they going to do with the depravity in the: teachings of muhammad, the commands of allah, the verses in the qur'an which urge motivate and exonerate the atrocities the islamists love to perform on a daily basis around the globe?

Or is it just going to be more part one liners then bury their head in the sand and lie about its' got nothing to do with islam?
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #7 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 2:55pm
 
moses wrote on Feb 23rd, 2017 at 2:28pm:
When will G and the apologists tell us what are they going to do with the depravity in the: teachings of muhammad, the commands of allah, the verses in the qur'an which urge motivate and exonerate the atrocities the islamists love to perform on a daily basis around the globe?

Or is it just going to be more part one liners then bury their head in the sand and lie about its' got nothing to do with islam?


You're not very curious either, Moses.

That's okay. Grendel and I are.
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moses
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #8 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 2:58pm
 
Oh I'm exceptionally curious, why do you think I keep asking: When will G and the apologists tell us what are they going to do with the depravity in the: teachings of muhammad, the commands of allah, the verses in the qur'an which urge motivate and exonerate the atrocities the islamists love to perform on a daily basis around the globe?
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #9 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 3:22pm
 
moses wrote on Feb 23rd, 2017 at 2:58pm:
Oh I'm exceptionally curious, why do you think I keep asking: When will G and the apologists tell us what are they going to do with the depravity in the: teachings of muhammad, the commands of allah, the verses in the qur'an which urge motivate and exonerate the atrocities the islamists love to perform on a daily basis around the globe?


But when G tells you, Moses, you always say that he has no choice but to denounce his evil moon god and convert to Christianity.

Forgive me here, but I just don't see this as curious. You never pay any attention to G's responses. You just give him hyperbolic, self righteous lectures.

Do you want to try one more time? Here's your chance.
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moses
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #10 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 3:58pm
 
Quote:
But when G tells you, Moses, you always say that he has no choice but to denounce his evil moon god and convert to Christianity.

Forgive me here, but I just don't see this as curious. You never pay any attention to G's responses. You just give him hyperbolic, self righteous lectures.


Convert to Christianity? Another lie on your part?

I ask him what he is going to do about the evil in islam, allah, muhammad and the qur'an.

You know he is stumped as he can't do a thing about this depraved islamic conglomeration.

Because the truth is, the above foursome of evil can never withstand critical examination, it will simply implode.

Your statement about him denouncing islam, is the acknowledgment that what I say is true, islam can never stand up to decisive analysis.

Forget the ineffective one liners, what is he going to do about the myriad of evil teachings, commands and verses which urge and motivate islamic atrocities around the globe?

So what is it going to be, you and gandi supporting the ongoing death and destruction committed by jihadists, by refusing to break down the root cause of their blood crazed psychopathic behaviour, or have you got the courage to examine the evil in islam and take steps to eliminate it, thus stopping the islamic sanctioned torture and murder of innocent people.

The ball's in your court.
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« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2017 at 4:06pm by moses »  
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #11 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 4:12pm
 
Why do you assume that Gandalf is responsible for what other Muslims do, Moses?   I'm interested to see how you paint this.   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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moses
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #12 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 4:39pm
 
Oh gee the resident liar has come on board,

Responsible?

I'm asking what are the so called good muslims going to do about the evil in islam, allah, muhammad and the qur'an, which causes and motivates islamic atrocities?

Lying and saying this evil doesn't exist is not the answer, that is simply an admission they are quiet happy with the status quo of bloodshed, death and destruction, that they prefer this to actually examining the root cause of the world wide islamic depravity.

islam is the problem, muslims could fix this problem with an honest examination of the aggregate of islam, allah, muhammad and the qur'an, the answer lies in cleaning this pool of depravity. 
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #13 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 5:42pm
 
moses wrote on Feb 23rd, 2017 at 4:39pm:
Oh gee the resident liar has come on board,

Responsible?

I'm asking what are the so called good muslims going to do about the evil in islam, allah, muhammad and the qur'an, which causes and motivates islamic atrocities?

Lying and saying this evil doesn't exist is not the answer, that is simply an admission they are quiet happy with the status quo of bloodshed, death and destruction, that they prefer this to actually examining the root cause of the world wide islamic depravity.

islam is the problem, muslims could fix this problem with an honest examination of the aggregate of islam, allah, muhammad and the qur'an, the answer lies in cleaning this pool of depravity. 


I think the answer lies in people understanding the Quran, and realizing that the many of the laws and practices that are epoused in the Quran are no longer relevant in a 21st society. Islam was developed in a tribal environment; we no longer live in tribes but nation-states.
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Auggie
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Re: Islam vs Islamism, Muslims vs Islamists
Reply #14 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 5:44pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 23rd, 2017 at 12:34pm:
Sooo... many today use various terms to try and distinguish what is going on in the world today re Islam and the West and within Islam.

I ask then what is the difference between a Muslim and an Islamist or between Islam and Islamism.

Over to you Gandalf...


The answer to this question is that Islamism is essentially 'political islam' - i.e. using Islamic doctrine to organize society. Islam incorporates religion, theology, etc.
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