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Universal Basic Income (Read 2086 times)
bogarde73
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Universal Basic Income
Jan 19th, 2017 at 8:56am
 
Finland is running a 2 year trial. Selected people will get the equivalent of $600 a month no strings attached. Even if they get a job they keep it.

The Netherlands is also trying a pilot scheme

You be the judge. All I will say is, whatever govts tell you, there will not be jobs for all. Robotics and AI will see to that.
But if aggregate consumer demand is not maintained there will be even.less employment.
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Gordon
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #1 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 9:04am
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 8:56am:
Finland is running a 2 year trial. Selected people will get the equivalent of $600 a month no strings attached. Even if they get a job they keep it.

The Netherlands is also trying a pilot scheme

You be the judge. All I will say is, whatever govts tell you, there will not be jobs for all. Robotics and AI will see to that.
But if aggregate consumer demand is not maintained there will be even.less employment.


I've heard some interesting discussions on the effects of AI and robotics. Who knows where it will go.

On one hand, humans having a surplus of time results in great creativily, but idle hand are the devil's playground Smiley

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aquascoot
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #2 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 9:16am
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 8:56am:
Finland is running a 2 year trial. Selected people will get the equivalent of $600 a month no strings attached. Even if they get a job they keep it.

The Netherlands is also trying a pilot scheme

You be the judge. All I will say is, whatever govts tell you, there will not be jobs for all. Robotics and AI will see to that.
But if aggregate consumer demand is not maintained there will be even.less employment.



Bogarde, the nature of employment will change for sure but we need to get out of this idea that there is some limit on the "number of jobs".

a job is NOT just getting paid by the hour to do work.
it is the value you can create that "creates' the job and the extent of employment is limited only by your creativity.

just as example, a lady who lives near me , resigned from a fairly high powered corporate job as a PA.
she just started growing orchids in a little greenhouse.
she put some in a van and took them to the local sunday market.  the business just boomed. she pulled in 60k last year, working for 4 hours on a sunday morning .

and she told me the soil near me is perfect fro growing "proteas",  the national plant of south africa. she said if someone got into that and marketed them they could easily make millions.

and she had another friend who got into salvaging the flowers from bridal bouquets which normally go into the bin and taking them to nursing homes. now this is just a nice gesture and a good way of contributing but you could turn this into a business as well.

this century will be the century of the creators.

people who are stuck in negativity, who have negative self talk, who dont meditate , who dont read inspirational books...they are shutting down the cretive side of their brains and they will be little cry babies, queued up at cntrelink and just trying to cope, just trying to get thru the day.

why do that.
life will be over in a flash.

pick something you like and go for it.
if you fail, say "oh poo" have a giggle and pick the next thing.

centrelink and big corporations are not your friend and certainly not your mummy.
F*ck them....they are the consolation prize for failures.
think bigger man
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #3 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 12:22pm
 
There was a very long thread about this proposal a while back. It does not make sense to give the money back to the people who are paying it, minus the administration costs associated with government bureaucracy, when they could far more easily refrain from taking the money off them in the first place.
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #4 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 12:53pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 12:22pm:
There was a very long thread about this proposal a while back. It does not make sense to give the money back to the people who are paying it, minus the administration costs associated with government bureaucracy, when they could far more easily refrain from taking the money off them in the first place.



I do believe it cost about $1:20 to hand out $1:00 in welfare, I couldn't think of anything more annoy than for the fkktards in government to steal a heap of taxes from me only to hand it back less the overhead charges hoping Ill be thankful for the free money.

There is no accounting for the inbred intellectual cretinism of the socialist mind.


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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #5 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 1:38pm
 
Gordon wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 9:04am:
... idle hand are the devil's playground


Gordon's confession? Self gratification?
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longweekend58
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #6 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 2:41pm
 
The fundamental flaw in this entire idiotic idea is that somehow, everyone deserves an income without working. The demise of the british aristocracy was entirely because of this - generations of wasted lives who largely achieved nothing beyond breeding during their entire lives.
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #7 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 5:45pm
 
Free money and medical marijuana, what great, character building, social programs for an increasingly urbanised population. I wonder what political leanings the recipients would vote for?
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Unforgiven
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #8 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 5:54pm
 
Free money becomes a right and a new addiction.

Some Ozpolitic denizens often whine about not getting enough free taxpayer money.
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Kat
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #9 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 6:14pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 2:41pm:
The fundamental flaw in this entire idiotic idea is that somehow, everyone deserves an income without working. The demise of the british aristocracy was entirely because of this - generations of wasted lives who largely achieved nothing beyond breeding during their entire lives.


And the flaw in YOURS is that the days of there being sufficient paid work for all who
want it are LONG GONE. And they won't be returning any time soon.

Not that UBI will ever happen with a right-wing government, or while the idiotic middle
class think THEY somehow lose-out to the mythical 'bludger', or that it somehow 'costs'
them something.

So, apart from a guaranteed basic income or simply killing the poor, what's YOUR solution?

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Kat
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #10 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 6:20pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
Free money becomes a right and a new addiction.

Some Ozpolitic denizens often whine about not getting enough free taxpayer money.


It IS a right, like it or not.
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freediver
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #11 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 7:52pm
 
Kat wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 6:14pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 2:41pm:
The fundamental flaw in this entire idiotic idea is that somehow, everyone deserves an income without working. The demise of the british aristocracy was entirely because of this - generations of wasted lives who largely achieved nothing beyond breeding during their entire lives.


And the flaw in YOURS is that the days of there being sufficient paid work for all who
want it are LONG GONE. And they won't be returning any time soon.

Not that UBI will ever happen with a right-wing government, or while the idiotic middle
class think THEY somehow lose-out to the mythical 'bludger', or that it somehow 'costs'
them something.

So, apart from a guaranteed basic income or simply killing the poor, what's YOUR solution?



People have been saying this since the industrial revolution. It has never been true. The employment rate has nearly always hovered close to full employment. We would have full employment overnight if they got rid of minimum wages.
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bogarde73
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #12 - Jan 20th, 2017 at 9:33am
 
Plenty of work for these guys:

...

No coffee breaks, no toilet breaks, flip a switch and they turn up for work . . . .hey c'mon, way to go!
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Kat
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #13 - Jan 20th, 2017 at 1:19pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 7:52pm:
Kat wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 6:14pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 2:41pm:
The fundamental flaw in this entire idiotic idea is that somehow, everyone deserves an income without working. The demise of the british aristocracy was entirely because of this - generations of wasted lives who largely achieved nothing beyond breeding during their entire lives.


And the flaw in YOURS is that the days of there being sufficient paid work for all who
want it are LONG GONE. And they won't be returning any time soon.

Not that UBI will ever happen with a right-wing government, or while the idiotic middle
class think THEY somehow lose-out to the mythical 'bludger', or that it somehow 'costs'
them something.

So, apart from a guaranteed basic income or simply killing the poor, what's YOUR solution?



People have been saying this since the industrial revolution. It has never been true. The employment rate has nearly always hovered close to full employment.
We would have full employment overnight if they got rid of minimum wages.


Rubbish!

That's not employment, it's slavery.

And where do you see the needed but non-existent 600,00 needed jobs coming from?

Considering, of course, that reducing the min wage WILL NOT result in more jobs for
workers, but higher profits for parasitic 'shareholders'.
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BigOl64
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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #14 - Jan 20th, 2017 at 1:24pm
 
Kat wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 6:20pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jan 19th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
Free money becomes a right and a new addiction.

Some Ozpolitic denizens often whine about not getting enough free taxpayer money.


It IS a right, like it or not.



Bullsh1t!

Just because some pollie said something a few lifetime ago, does not make it a right; it is something that was said once, nothing more.


We have no rights, we have obligations and privileges, welfare is but one of them.

As greece found out, when there is no money the big bucket of 'free' welfare comes to a screaming halt.

Learn to live without someone else supporting you; you will be a lot happier.

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