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the poster children for 18c (Read 3872 times)
Karnal
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Re: the poster children for 18c
Reply #30 - Dec 22nd, 2016 at 8:07pm
 
Raven wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 3:57pm:
Freediver is unable to grasp the fact that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence.

His inability to understand how the law works means he will continue to post inaccurate statements in threads such as this


FD is that rare breed of Freeeedom-fancier who upholds the right to tell you porkie pies.

FD's statements are not just inaccurate. Many are out-and-out fibs.
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Frank
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Re: the poster children for 18c
Reply #31 - Dec 22nd, 2016 at 10:43pm
 
Karnal wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 8:07pm:
Raven wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 3:57pm:
Freediver is unable to grasp the fact that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence.

His inability to understand how the law works means he will continue to post inaccurate statements in threads such as this


FD is that rare breed of Freeeedom-fancier who upholds the right to tell you porkie pies.

FD's statements are not just inaccurate. Many are out-and-out fibs.

At least he's not a vagina like you. Not everyone can be. Or has to be.

You have chosen that path, that's your choice. We get it.

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« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2016 at 10:48pm by Frank »  
 
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Karnal
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Re: the poster children for 18c
Reply #32 - Dec 22nd, 2016 at 11:01pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 10:43pm:
Karnal wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 8:07pm:
Raven wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 3:57pm:
Freediver is unable to grasp the fact that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence.

His inability to understand how the law works means he will continue to post inaccurate statements in threads such as this


FD is that rare breed of Freeeedom-fancier who upholds the right to tell you porkie pies.

FD's statements are not just inaccurate. Many are out-and-out fibs.

At least he's not a vagina like you. Not everyone can be. Or has to be.

You have chosen that path, that's your choice. We get it.



Oh yes, and here we have the other one, FD's partner in porkie pies.

The uncanny thing is, of all the serial liars here, FD and your good self are the only two to admit it.

You're really very brave, you know, but can I ask?

Have you ever thought of just going straight?
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Frank
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Re: the poster children for 18c
Reply #33 - Dec 22nd, 2016 at 11:19pm
 
And if only we knew what you are blabbering on about, old girl.  Not even you know.  It's all oblique hints and miam miams.





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Karnal
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Re: the poster children for 18c
Reply #34 - Dec 23rd, 2016 at 12:39am
 
Frank wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 11:19pm:
And if only we knew what you are blabbering on about, old girl.  Not even you know.  It's all oblique hints and miam miams.







Oh, I see. Your memory was wiped when you became Frank, eh?

Intelligence and integrity, innit.
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Setanta
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Re: the poster children for 18c
Reply #35 - Dec 23rd, 2016 at 1:01am
 
Karnal wrote on Dec 23rd, 2016 at 12:39am:
Frank wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 11:19pm:
And if only we knew what you are blabbering on about, old girl.  Not even you know.  It's all oblique hints and miam miams.







Oh, I see. Your memory was wiped when you became Frank, eh?

Intelligence and integrity, innit.


Matty?
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nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
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Karnal
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Re: the poster children for 18c
Reply #36 - Dec 23rd, 2016 at 9:06am
 
Setanta wrote on Dec 23rd, 2016 at 1:01am:
Karnal wrote on Dec 23rd, 2016 at 12:39am:
Frank wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 11:19pm:
And if only we knew what you are blabbering on about, old girl.  Not even you know.  It's all oblique hints and miam miams.







Oh, I see. Your memory was wiped when you became Frank, eh?

Intelligence and integrity, innit.


Matty?


No, Setanta, Matty (AKA Mattywisk) has a new sock each week. The old boy (AKA Sore End) only starts them up when he gets banned.

Intelligence and integrity, you see.
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freediver
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Re: the poster children for 18c
Reply #37 - Mar 1st, 2017 at 6:31pm
 
18C: Racial Discrimination Act changes divides Liberal Party backbenchers

www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-01/backbenchers-battle-over-changes-to-racial-discrimination-act/8312626

The Liberal Party is split over whether restrictions on freedom of speech should be watered down, putting pressure on the Prime Minister and Cabinet over which side of the party to favour.

Key points:

No consensus was reached in yesterday's Parliament regarding 18C
Ian Goodenough says he would support changing the wording of the Act
David Coleman does not think that "changes to 18C are appropriate"
Yesterday the Parliament's Joint Committee on Human Rights tabled its report into the Racial Discrimination Act, but failed to reach a consensus on whether Section 18C, which makes it illegal to offend, insult or humiliate someone because of their race, should be changed.

Liberal backbencher and Committee Chair Ian Goodenough said he favoured changing the Act's wording.

"I think there is a fair level of support to make freedom of speech more accessible," he told AM.

While the report had bipartisan recommendations about making sure only people with a genuine claim use the Act, there was no consensus over whether to change part 18C. Instead the report had six suggestions about where to go to from there.

"I would support replacing the words of offend and insult with a higher term, such as harass or vilify," Mr Goodenough said.

"Section 18C was introduced during the Keating government. Words have changed in our society, what it means to offend someone in today's society is a lot different to what it was to offend back 20 years ago, so there needs to be contemporary use of the language."

Mr Goodenough is one of many Liberals who want a re-write of Section 18C. His party colleagues James Paterson, Dean Smith, Eric Abetz are all supportive of changing the Act.

But the debate over free speech is not one-sided. Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull is facing pressure from the more moderate end of the party, who are worried that watering down free speech sends a bad signal.

'You can't scrap the entire law': Coleman

One of those opposed to change is David Coleman. His Sydney electorate of Banks is diverse, and around 30 per cent of constituents are from a Chinese background.

"I don't think that changes to 18C are appropriate," he told AM.

"I am of the view that the law has been in place for more than 20 years, I think that it has worked effectively in defending against racial discrimination."

He says his electorate does not want to see a change to the Act.

"There is certainly a substantial number of people in my community who are supportive of the existing laws, who have found the existing laws helpful in protecting them against racial discrimination," he said.

Mr Coleman supported the report's recommendations to speed up the legal process, but he strongly opposed moves to broaden free speech under the law.

"It's not the case that simply because you have vexatious claims under a law that you get rid of the entire law," he said.

"There are obviously many aspects of law where vexatious claims are made, and the appropriate way of dealing with that is to address those process issues. But it's a very different matter to say that the law itself should be repealed, and that's not something I support."

He said he would be talking with his Liberal colleagues about why change should not be pursued.

"Well look, obviously the report's just come out. Everyone can now review it and form an opinion. But certainly I have a strong view and I'm certainly happy to discuss that with others."

Mr Goodenough admitted Mr Turnbull and the Cabinet would have a tough job deciding which side to take.

"I think it will be a balancing act between those with multicultural electorates and those who are more conservative," he said.

Cabinet will now consider the report. Any changes to the law it decides to pursue needs to go through a long committee and partyroom process before the big challenge of getting it through the Parliament.

From other news sites:

The Guardian: Liberal infighting begins after 18C report fails to suggest major changes to race hate laws
Katherine Times: Free speech inquiry stops short of recommending major changes to 18C race hate laws
Huffington Post: 'Huge FAIL' As No Changes To 18C Recommended By Parliament Committee
SBS: 18C inquiry leans in favour of 'mainstream Australians' as no major changes proposed
The Australian: 18C review strands Malcolm Turnbull in party row
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: the poster children for 18c
Reply #38 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 7:11pm
 
Link.

Ima gonna talk there, Effendi......if you are interested.
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Re: the poster children for 18c
Reply #39 - Mar 21st, 2017 at 7:22pm
 
Why was Toben ordered to face court?

Obviously he was jailed for contempt because he refused to front

but if 18c is so benign why did he have to front court for his opinion in the first place?

Seems like a manipulation of the law .....

if we can't get him under 18c we'll take this tack............

seems like a form of entrapment

Either way it is derived from 18c

and his freedom of speech/opinion has been denied & he has been jailed as a consequence.

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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
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Re: the poster children for 18c
Reply #40 - Mar 23rd, 2017 at 8:44am
 
It's worse than I thought:

Labor eyes extending 18C complaints

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labor-eyes-extending-18c-complaints-to-gender-disability-and-age/news-story/366d04d0d5efb5fc6ef575e4e3550afc

Labor is considering a secret plan to extend the reach of litigation based on section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act to include people claiming they have been ­offended or insulted because of their sexual orientation, disabil­ities or age.

A video, obtained by The Australian, shows Labor legal affairs spokesman Mark Dreyfus last week explaining the proposal, which would lead to the Australian Human Rights Commission and the courts facing a new wave of complaints.

Because Bill Shorten has ­rejected changes to 18C, there is a risk that Labor’s plan to consolidate all federal anti-discrimination laws will lead to litigation by the disabled and the LGBTI community that would be determined using the same procedures that apply under section 18C.

The Australian can reveal that the amount of compensation paid as a result of race discrimination complaints to the Human Rights Commission has soared, with companies and governments handing over almost $1 million since 2010 to avoid going to court.

Mr Dreyfus has confirmed that if Labor is elected to government he will be considering imposing a general standard for speech that infringes anti-discrimination law.

Under Labor’s proposal, advocates of same-sex marriage would be empowered, for example, to take legal action under 18C-style laws if they felt offended or ­insulted by those who publicly ­defended the traditional definition of marriage. Those at risk would include priests, rabbis, imams and other religious leaders who publicly oppose same-sex marriage.

Labor’s proposal also opens the prospect that debate over the cost of the National Disability ­Insurance Scheme could be truncated because of the risk of litigation by those who might feel offended or insulted.

Mr Dreyfus outlined Labor’s thinking during a panel discussion on Wednesday last week with Liberal backbencher Tim Wilson, hosted by the Jewish Community Council of Victoria.

In the video of the event, Mr Dreyfus said a Labor gov­ernment hoped to consolidate all federal anti-discrimination legislation and would consider whether there should be a general standard for the type of speech that would ­attract liability under that law. At the moment, separate federal laws make it unlawful to discriminate against people because of their race, age, sex and sexual orientation, disability and indigeneity.

When Mr Dreyfus was asked by an audience member if section 18C should be extended to cover gender and disability, he said Mr Wilson had reminded him of the “failed project which I hope to ­return to of consolidating the five anti-discrimination statutes when we are next in government”.

One of the things we’ll be looking at is this very point of whether or not we should set a standard about speech generally,” Mr Dreyfus said.

“I want to have standards set in a community which respect the dignity of every Australian. I think it’s very important and something to be fought for.”

When asked yesterday about his remarks, Mr Dreyfus said Labor would never support changes to section 18C of the ­Racial Discrimination Act.

“The consolidation of discrimination law was a policy of the Gillard Labor government,” he said. “My discussion of this issue last week was clearly hypothetical, and is not relevant to the current proposed changes to section 18C which will do nothing but weaken protections against racial hate speech in this country.”

Labor’s proposal has come to light at a time when the Australian Human Rights Commission is dealing with a surge in complaints by those claiming to have been ­offended and insulted under section 18C. Section 18C makes it unlawful to do anything that causes people to feel offended, insulted, humiliated or intimidated because of their race, colour or national or ethnic background.

Under a plan unveiled by Malcolm Turnbull and Attorney-General George Brandis this would be changed to eliminate what they have described as an unnecessary restriction on freedom of speech.

The proposed changes would impose liability only on those who intimidated or harassed others ­because of their race, colour or ­national or ethnic background. The government’s plan would also abandon the test for liability and require all disputes to be decided based on the standards of reasonable members of the community.

This would overturn the current arrangement in which judges are required to adopt the perspective of reasonable representatives of those who complain.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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