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Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c (Read 42016 times)
Mattyfisk
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #105 - Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:40pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:37pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 5:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 5:14pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:59pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:57pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:50pm:
Call my family's  forced migration to Australia an invasion like a virus all you like.


I don't think we have a public holiday for your family's forced migration, Homo. Maybe you should lobby Pauline.
You missed the point. You agree with Invasion Day but don't like the idea of The Holocaust not being accurate even though both could be considered insulting to certain people. Why the double standards?


I don't agree with Invasion Day, but I can't see how the colonization of Australia can be perceived as much else. It was an invasion. The British Navy used real guns with real bullets.

I don't think Holocaust denial should be discouraged because it's offensive, Homo, I think it should be discourage because it's false.

Just as Bolt's 18C charge held because the things he said about "ight-skinned" Aborigines were deliberate porkies.
So do you agree or not? You are all over the place My Burqa Beauty.

Karnal- I think it's a bit simplistic, but it sums up what happened in 1788.


Is their something wrong with people moving between lands? People have been doing it for thousands of years. Do you see how certain people might find that offensive? Re-naming Australia's national day in that way?



Is their something wrong with people moving between lands?


The way you go on about boat people coming here you would think so ?


Yes, the British Navy, acting under orders from the Home Office and King George III, were simply looking for refuge and found it, right here in jolly old Terra Australis.

Fresh off the boat, innit.
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #106 - Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:41pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:37pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 5:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 5:14pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:59pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:57pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:50pm:
Call my family's  forced migration to Australia an invasion like a virus all you like.


I don't think we have a public holiday for your family's forced migration, Homo. Maybe you should lobby Pauline.
You missed the point. You agree with Invasion Day but don't like the idea of The Holocaust not being accurate even though both could be considered insulting to certain people. Why the double standards?


I don't agree with Invasion Day, but I can't see how the colonization of Australia can be perceived as much else. It was an invasion. The British Navy used real guns with real bullets.

I don't think Holocaust denial should be discouraged because it's offensive, Homo, I think it should be discourage because it's false.

Just as Bolt's 18C charge held because the things he said about "ight-skinned" Aborigines were deliberate porkies.
So do you agree or not? You are all over the place My Burqa Beauty.

Karnal- I think it's a bit simplistic, but it sums up what happened in 1788.


Is their something wrong with people moving between lands? People have been doing it for thousands of years. Do you see how certain people might find that offensive? Re-naming Australia's national day in that way?



Is their something wrong with people moving between lands?


The way you go on about boat people coming here you would think so ?
I don't want Sunni Muslims. They are a problem.  In fact I don't want people from countries with proven issues. There's nothing wrong with being concerned about the type of people who come here. Also I'm just not the sort of person who can sh it on my country by calling our national day "Invasion Day" when this country gives me so much. I could never bite the hand that feeds me. it's low behaviour.
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #107 - Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:43pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:40pm:
Dnarever wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:37pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 5:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 5:14pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:59pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:57pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:50pm:
Call my family's  forced migration to Australia an invasion like a virus all you like.


I don't think we have a public holiday for your family's forced migration, Homo. Maybe you should lobby Pauline.
You missed the point. You agree with Invasion Day but don't like the idea of The Holocaust not being accurate even though both could be considered insulting to certain people. Why the double standards?


I don't agree with Invasion Day, but I can't see how the colonization of Australia can be perceived as much else. It was an invasion. The British Navy used real guns with real bullets.

I don't think Holocaust denial should be discouraged because it's offensive, Homo, I think it should be discourage because it's false.

Just as Bolt's 18C charge held because the things he said about "ight-skinned" Aborigines were deliberate porkies.
So do you agree or not? You are all over the place My Burqa Beauty.

Karnal- I think it's a bit simplistic, but it sums up what happened in 1788.


Is their something wrong with people moving between lands? People have been doing it for thousands of years. Do you see how certain people might find that offensive? Re-naming Australia's national day in that way?



Is their something wrong with people moving between lands?


The way you go on about boat people coming here you would think so ?


Yes, the British Navy, acting under orders from the Home Office and King George III, were simply looking for refuge and found it, right here in jolly old Terra Australis.

Fresh off the boat, innit.
Yep, and it gave you and your family a place to live and prosper. You don't seem grateful princess?
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #108 - Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:49pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:41pm:
Dnarever wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:37pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 5:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 5:14pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:59pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:57pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:50pm:
Call my family's  forced migration to Australia an invasion like a virus all you like.


I don't think we have a public holiday for your family's forced migration, Homo. Maybe you should lobby Pauline.
You missed the point. You agree with Invasion Day but don't like the idea of The Holocaust not being accurate even though both could be considered insulting to certain people. Why the double standards?


I don't agree with Invasion Day, but I can't see how the colonization of Australia can be perceived as much else. It was an invasion. The British Navy used real guns with real bullets.

I don't think Holocaust denial should be discouraged because it's offensive, Homo, I think it should be discourage because it's false.

Just as Bolt's 18C charge held because the things he said about "ight-skinned" Aborigines were deliberate porkies.
So do you agree or not? You are all over the place My Burqa Beauty.

Karnal- I think it's a bit simplistic, but it sums up what happened in 1788.


Is their something wrong with people moving between lands? People have been doing it for thousands of years. Do you see how certain people might find that offensive? Re-naming Australia's national day in that way?



Is their something wrong with people moving between lands?


The way you go on about boat people coming here you would think so ?
I don't want Sunni Muslims.


Aborigines didn't want white Christians. Who should get their way?

You, them, or the Sunni Muslims?
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #109 - Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:55pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:49pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:41pm:
Dnarever wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:37pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 5:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 5:14pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:59pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:57pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:50pm:
Call my family's  forced migration to Australia an invasion like a virus all you like.


I don't think we have a public holiday for your family's forced migration, Homo. Maybe you should lobby Pauline.
You missed the point. You agree with Invasion Day but don't like the idea of The Holocaust not being accurate even though both could be considered insulting to certain people. Why the double standards?


I don't agree with Invasion Day, but I can't see how the colonization of Australia can be perceived as much else. It was an invasion. The British Navy used real guns with real bullets.

I don't think Holocaust denial should be discouraged because it's offensive, Homo, I think it should be discourage because it's false.

Just as Bolt's 18C charge held because the things he said about "ight-skinned" Aborigines were deliberate porkies.
So do you agree or not? You are all over the place My Burqa Beauty.

Karnal- I think it's a bit simplistic, but it sums up what happened in 1788.


Is their something wrong with people moving between lands? People have been doing it for thousands of years. Do you see how certain people might find that offensive? Re-naming Australia's national day in that way?



Is their something wrong with people moving between lands?


The way you go on about boat people coming here you would think so ?
I don't want Sunni Muslims.


Aborigines didn't want white Christians. Who should get their way?

You, them, or the Sunni Muslims?
I don't care what aborigines want. I know what I  don't want- bombs going off in the name of a sky fairy.
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« Last Edit: Dec 17th, 2016 at 7:00pm by Mr Hammer »  
 
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Belgarion
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #110 - Dec 17th, 2016 at 9:45pm
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:43pm:
Belgarion wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:36pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:22pm:
Quote:
I have had a read of it, and this particular piece of legislation does not apply to Toben .....yet Toben is still in gaol....for ignoring a court order designed to shut him up.


You can't have read it.  Tobin was jailed for three months in 2009.

He was ordered to stop publishing material.  He defied the order.  That is a contempt of Court.  He later apologised for doing so.

As Raven has already pointed out......say what you like, but accept the legal consequences, if any.

There is no Country on this Planet (well....none I know of) where there is an absolute right to freedom of speech.

I asked FD to give us his definition of freedom of speech in one of the other three Threads.  I guess you will not be surprised to learn that he is yet to do so.


Should have read  "Toben was still in gaol."   he was gaoled for contempt of a court which ordered him to stop publishing his opinions. In a free society no court should be able do do such a thing.


Let's say you are in front of a Judge who has issued you with a fine.  Do you reckon you'd get away with "You're an arsehole.  You're a fruitloop, a joke who would not know chit from clay.  The legal system is as corrupt as you are."

What do you reckon would happen next?


That is a reductio ad absurdum and  nothing to do with the issue at hand. If the law is being misused as it was in Tobins case then I would continue to object and express my opinion.  The law may say it is contempt to ignore their ruling, however all who believe in free speech have a duty to object to this sort of back door action by the courts.
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)
 
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Aussie
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #111 - Dec 17th, 2016 at 9:54pm
 
Quote:
That is a reductio ad absurdum and  nothing to do with the issue at hand.


You say that as though it destroys my point.  It doesn't.  I makes my point.  I noticed you did not answer the question.  Too hard was it?

Quote:
If the law is being misused as it was in Tobins case then I would continue to object and express my opinion.


Neither you nor Tobin get to select when you reckon Laws are being misused.  That is for the Courts.

Quote:
The law may say it is contempt to ignore their ruling,.....


Indeed it does.  Where would we be if everyone was free to ignore Court "Rulings?"

Quote:
however all who believe in free speech have a duty to object tho this sort of back door action by the courts.


Object away to your heart's content.....while enjoying imprisonment for contempt of Court.

You seem to be taking a very anarchist position.  Yeas?
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Belgarion
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #112 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 6:58am
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
That is a reductio ad absurdum and  nothing to do with the issue at hand.


You say that as though it destroys my point.  It doesn't.  I makes my point.  I noticed you did not answer the question.  Too hard was it?

Quote:
If the law is being misused as it was in Tobins case then I would continue to object and express my opinion.


Neither you nor Tobin get to select when you reckon Laws are being misused.  That is for the Courts.

Quote:
The law may say it is contempt to ignore their ruling,.....


Indeed it does.  Where would we be if everyone was free to ignore Court "Rulings?"

Quote:
however all who believe in free speech have a duty to object tho this sort of back door action by the courts.


Object away to your heart's content.....while enjoying imprisonment for contempt of Court.

You seem to be taking a very anarchist position.  Yeas?


You may play with words and obfuscate all you like.  It will not alter the fact is that Toben was imprisoned for expressing an opinion.
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #113 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 7:12am
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:41pm:
Dnarever wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 6:37pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 5:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 5:14pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:59pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:57pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 4:50pm:
Call my family's  forced migration to Australia an invasion like a virus all you like.


I don't think we have a public holiday for your family's forced migration, Homo. Maybe you should lobby Pauline.
You missed the point. You agree with Invasion Day but don't like the idea of The Holocaust not being accurate even though both could be considered insulting to certain people. Why the double standards?


I don't agree with Invasion Day, but I can't see how the colonization of Australia can be perceived as much else. It was an invasion. The British Navy used real guns with real bullets.

I don't think Holocaust denial should be discouraged because it's offensive, Homo, I think it should be discourage because it's false.

Just as Bolt's 18C charge held because the things he said about "ight-skinned" Aborigines were deliberate porkies.
So do you agree or not? You are all over the place My Burqa Beauty.

Karnal- I think it's a bit simplistic, but it sums up what happened in 1788.


Is their something wrong with people moving between lands? People have been doing it for thousands of years. Do you see how certain people might find that offensive? Re-naming Australia's national day in that way?



Is their something wrong with people moving between lands?


The way you go on about boat people coming here you would think so ?



I don't want Sunni Muslims. They are a problem.  In fact I don't want people from countries with proven issues. There's nothing wrong with being concerned about the type of people who come here. Also I'm just not the sort of person who can sh it on my country by calling our national day "Invasion Day" when this country gives me so much. I could never bite the hand that feeds me. it's low behaviour.


I don't want Sunni Muslims.


But Shia or Sufi and other Muslims are OK ?

You know that according to some the Shia are more radical ?

There's nothing wrong with being concerned about the type of people who come here


You know that the Poms sent criminals here by the boat load ?
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Dnarever
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #114 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 7:27am
 
Belgarion wrote on Dec 18th, 2016 at 6:58am:
Aussie wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
That is a reductio ad absurdum and  nothing to do with the issue at hand.


You say that as though it destroys my point.  It doesn't.  I makes my point.  I noticed you did not answer the question.  Too hard was it?

Quote:
If the law is being misused as it was in Tobins case then I would continue to object and express my opinion.


Neither you nor Tobin get to select when you reckon Laws are being misused.  That is for the Courts.

Quote:
The law may say it is contempt to ignore their ruling,.....


Indeed it does.  Where would we be if everyone was free to ignore Court "Rulings?"

Quote:
however all who believe in free speech have a duty to object tho this sort of back door action by the courts.


Object away to your heart's content.....while enjoying imprisonment for contempt of Court.

You seem to be taking a very anarchist position.  Yeas?


You may play with words and obfuscate all you like.  It will not alter the fact is that Toben was imprisoned for expressing an opinion.


He was imprisoned for contempt and he was guilty. It has nothing to do with expressing his opinion. That is a fact.

There is no word play or obfuscation involved, straight plain direct English is the only requirement.
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Dnarever
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #115 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 7:30am
 
The laws we have seen under this government have been designed to remove the threat of freedom of speech being used against them, that is the reason for their creation. This is much worse that any perceived impact of 18c.

The purpose of 18c is to allow people to be defended against racial vilification, the purpose of these other changes is to allow the government to prevent the populating from finding out what they are doing.

Government by secrecy is not a good thing and it is this governments preferred method.

All governments would do this if they could get away with it, this is a very dangerous precedent that we are seeing increasingly and Improperly used.
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Gnads
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #116 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 7:52am
 
mothra wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 1:55pm:
Nobody in Australia has ever been jailed for their opinion.

Pauline Hanson was not jailed for her opinion.


Yes she was .... albeit on trumped up charges of electoral fraud.

The LNP & Labor conspired to discredit her & jail her ...

and that was all because of the opinions she expressed.

They were scared of the amount of support she got.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #117 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 7:58am
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 2:40pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 2:33pm:
mothra wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 2:28pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 2:26pm:
mothra wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 2:23pm:
They weren't interned for having an opinion, Hammer.

Jesus.

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin They hadn't done a crime Mothballs. You tell me why the Australia First Movement were jailed then. And it's highly debatable concerning Pauline Hanson.



It is not highly debatable regarding Pauline Hanson. She was jailed for fraud.

The Australia First movement jailed? What all of them? Please support your claim.

You jut get more wrong every time you type, you do know that, right?
She didn't commit fraud. She was pardoned. She was thrown in jail without proper procedure because she offended you leftards. Q2- Wikipedia and all of the other sources. look it up for yourself.


Crap.  She and Ettridge were convicted of fraud, and sentenced to three years.  They appealed.  Their appeal was upheld.  A verdict of acquittal was entered.  There was no pardon, and proper procedures were afforded them, including Trial by Jury which convicted them in the first place.


They shouldn't have been charged with fraud ... because they were  BS trumped up charges ....

pushed by Peter Beattie & even more so Tony Abbott who had a slush fund specifically to get rid of her & One Nation.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #118 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 8:08am
 
mothra wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 3:15pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 3:15pm:
mothra wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 3:12pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 3:12pm:
mothra wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 3:11pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 3:10pm:
mothra wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 3:03pm:
He refused to remove subject matter that vilified Jewish people.

You think you are clever FD but you are really making a fool of yourself.

Publicising racial vilification is not merely holding an opinion, now is it?

I have opinions on all sorts of things. Never been jailed for any of them although some are highly contentious.


What muddled thinking.



Perhaps you can tell me then who has been jailed for holding an opinion?


Gerald Fredrick Toben.

Now say something incredibly stupid.




He was not jailed for holding an opinion.
so why then?


I and many others have already said it.

He was jailed for contempt of court.


He was jailed for expressing his opinion both verbally & in print ....

holding an opinion is just a pedantic use of weasel words.

to "hold" something ... e.g. close to your chest

means you hold it in or back.

He openly expressed his opinions & was bought to court under 18c .......

he was ordered to remove his opinions from print

he refused

the contempt charges were as a result of 18c being used to stifle his opinion & freedom of speech.

When are the Islamic hate preachers going to be charged under 18c?
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Threat to freedom of speech isn't 18c
Reply #119 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 8:44am
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 18th, 2016 at 7:52am:
mothra wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 1:55pm:
Nobody in Australia has ever been jailed for their opinion.

Pauline Hanson was not jailed for her opinion.


Yes she was .... albeit on trumped up charges of electoral fraud.

The LNP & Labor conspired to discredit her & jail her ...

and that was all because of the opinions she expressed.

They were scared of the amount of support she got.


The LNP & Labor conspired to discredit her & jail her ...

Labor conspired with the LNP to give her no preference votes which meant that her party would be turfed out of office no matter how many direct votes they obtained (which was a lot).

Labor had nothing to do with her being imprisoned that was one or two people and the Liberal party via a Tony Abbott slush fund to finance the show.

Yes she was .... albeit on trumped up charges of electoral fraud

I suppose indirectly is some sort of way, she had the policies that the Liberals wanted when they worked out how popular the red neck racist line was but they had that without having her locked up.
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