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18 c lies and more lies. (Read 4022 times)
John Smith
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #15 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 10:56am
 
Does FD think we should revoke 'contempt of court' legislation too?

It would seem that if his concern was Tobin, that should be the legislation he should be targeting, instead of lying about 18c.
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freediver
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #16 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:07am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 10:45am:
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 9:37am:
An Australian man was put in jail for denying the holocaust because of 18c. He was not protected by 18d.


Do you have a link for that?

The only similar case I could find was Gerald Fredrick Töben who was jailed in 2009 for contempt of court

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Fredrick_T%C3%B6ben


That's the one. The contempt took the form of denying the holocaust, in violation of 18c. Here is some previous discussion:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1480201952/11#11

Aussie tried the same BS there. Before he leads you up the garden path, it turns out Aussie agrees that he was jailed for not refraining from denying the holocaust, but still insists it is "a blatant lie of the most scurrilous kind" to say instead that he was jailed for denying the holocaust. To support this, he presented evidence that concluded that Toben was jailed for denying the holocaust (without Aussie's absurd distinction that he was jailed for not refraining from doing so).

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It would seem that if his concern was Tobin, that should be the legislation he should be targeting, instead of lying about 18c


That is even more stupid than Aussie's argument.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Karnal
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #17 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:10am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 8:39am:
Have you ever tried asking a Muslim what they think of 18c?


Try asking FD.

You'll be waiting a while.
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Karnal
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #18 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:12am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 9:04am:
The problem is that it is a direct attack on freedom of speech. The solution is to get rid of it.


Yes, that's what Andrew Bolt says.
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Karnal
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #19 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:15am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 9:37am:
That is a common fallacy promoted by the supporters of 18c. An Australian man was put in jail for denying the holocaust because of 18c. He was not protected by 18d. 18d talks a lot about 'fair comment'. However, anyone who becomes a victim of this sort of attack on freedom of speech is obviously going to be part of a very unpopular minority whose opinions are considered unfair by the dominant majority. 18d only protects people who have nothing to fear from 18c to begin with.


It doesn't prevent your Freeeeedom from telling porkies like this, FD. You know why.
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The_Barnacle
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #20 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:26am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:07am:
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 10:45am:
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 9:37am:
An Australian man was put in jail for denying the holocaust because of 18c. He was not protected by 18d.


Do you have a link for that?

The only similar case I could find was Gerald Fredrick Töben who was jailed in 2009 for contempt of court

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Fredrick_T%C3%B6ben


That's the one. The contempt took the form of denying the holocaust, in violation of 18c.



But he was actually jailed for contempt of court. I'm glad that's cleared up.
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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.
 
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John Smith
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #21 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:27am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:26am:
But he was actually jailed for contempt of court. I'm glad that's cleared up.



that won't stop FD from using it in his agenda to get rid of 18C
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REPORTER: The condition of the budget will not be an excuse for breaking promises?

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Karnal
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #22 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:43am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:26am:
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:07am:
[quote author=Oh_Yeah link=1481368467/13#13 date=1481417150][quote author=freediver link=1481368467/7#7 date=1481413043] An Australian man was put in jail for denying the holocaust because of 18c. He was not protected by 18d.


Do you have a link for that?

The only similar case I could find was Gerald Fredrick Töben who was jailed in 2009 for contempt of court

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Fredrick_T%C3%B6ben


FD knows all that. He pretends to ignore posts that don't conform to his views.

You know, implausible deniability.

FD knows all about Tobin. FD's just playing dumb. He thinks this will get him out of a charge of porkies which, as we all know, FD refuses to refrain from it his campaign against the Muselman.

FD is one of the few posters here who reserves the right to tell porkies pies in order to vilify racial, cultural and religious groups. Of course he'd want to change 18C.

FD is a propagandist who's sole purpose here is to ban a certain religious group.

And just think, he started this board to do the exact opposite.

What could Abu possibly have said to have changed FD so?
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freediver
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #23 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 12:37pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:26am:
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:07am:
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 10:45am:
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 9:37am:
An Australian man was put in jail for denying the holocaust because of 18c. He was not protected by 18d.


Do you have a link for that?

The only similar case I could find was Gerald Fredrick Töben who was jailed in 2009 for contempt of court

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Fredrick_T%C3%B6ben


That's the one. The contempt took the form of denying the holocaust, in violation of 18c.



But he was actually jailed for contempt of court. I'm glad that's cleared up.


According to Aussie, he was jailed for not refraining from denying the holocaust.

How do you think he came to be facing a court order, and what do you think he did that violated it?
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Karnal
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #24 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 12:42pm
 
Why don't you say what Aussie really said, FD? We've all read it.

Too hard?
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Dnarever
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #25 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 12:50pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 9:33am:
What about protecting people from perceived insult? Should we have the right not to be offended, and do you see that as an attack on freedom of speech?

How do all the other attacks on freedom of speech make this somehow not an attack on freedom of speech? Do we cease attacking freedom of speech when we attack it on several fronts?


18c is more about penalising the misuse or abuse of freedom of speech

You are not going to claim that what Bold did was ok are you ?
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #26 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 2:26pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 10:45am:
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 9:37am:
An Australian man was put in jail for denying the holocaust because of 18c. He was not protected by 18d.


Do you have a link for that?

The only similar case I could find was Gerald Fredrick Töben who was jailed in 2009 for contempt of court

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Fredrick_T%C3%B6ben



Seems to me that the critics of 18c like to tell lies about past court cases that had absolutely nothing to do with section 18c of the Racial Discrimination Act.   I wonder why?  Do you think lying?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Answer the question, [you know who].   How many Muslims do you know personally?

I don't know Brian. I only know the religious views of a fraction of the people I know.
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freediver
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #27 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 6:51pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 12:50pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 9:33am:
What about protecting people from perceived insult? Should we have the right not to be offended, and do you see that as an attack on freedom of speech?

How do all the other attacks on freedom of speech make this somehow not an attack on freedom of speech? Do we cease attacking freedom of speech when we attack it on several fronts?


18c is more about penalising the misuse or abuse of freedom of speech

You are not going to claim that what Bold did was ok are you ?


It has nothing to do with whether you agree with it or the moral value you place on what is said.

The only real test of a person's support for freedom of speech is their willingness to stick to their principles when they don't like what is being said. 'Misuse' of freedom of speech is another word for not actually supporting freedom of speech.

Quote:
Seems to me that the critics of 18c like to tell lies about past court cases that had absolutely nothing to do with section 18c of the Racial Discrimination Act.   I wonder why?  Do you think lying?


Are you suggesting Toben's jailing had nothing to do with 18c? Every time I think these arguments can't get any more stupid, you prove me wrong.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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John Smith
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #28 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 7:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 6:51pm:
Are you suggesting Toben's jailing had nothing to do with 18c?



it had to do with being in contempt of court.

Why don't you petition to have contempt of court laws changed or revoked?
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REPORTER: The condition of the budget will not be an excuse for breaking promises?

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Gnads
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Re: 18 c lies and more lies.
Reply #29 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 7:28pm
 
Here's why 18C should get the heave ho

another case of vexatious complaint that was in affect

a lie. Perceived insult/racial discrimination.

I hope she does go bankrupt.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/qut-case-cindy-prior-must-pay-studen...

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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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