Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Danish doctors moot circumcision ban (Read 1741 times)
Unforgiven
Gold Member
*****
Offline


I have sinned

Posts: 8879
Gender: male
Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:13am
 
The circumcision Titanic is gradually turning around.

There are no religious reasons that should not be overturned.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/denmark-considering-banning-circu...

Quote:
Boys should not be circumcised until they are old enough to choose for themselves, doctors in Denmark have said.

The Danish Medical Association said it had considered suggesting a legal ban on the procedure for children under the age of 18, because it believed circumcision should be “an informed, personal choice” that young men make for themselves.

When parents have their sons circumcised, it robs boys of the ability to make decisions about their own bodies, and choose their cultural and religious beliefs for themselves, the organisation said.

Lise Møller, chair of the Doctors' Association Ethics Board, said it was wrong to deny an individual the right to choose whether or not they wanted to be circumcised.

“To be circumcised should be an informed, personal choice," she said.

"It is most consistent with the individual’s right to self-determination that parents not be allowed to make this decision, but that it is left up to the individual when he has come of age."

The organisation said that because male circumcision is not without risk it should only be performed on children when there is a documented medical need.

The doctors stopped short of calling for an all-out legal ban on the procedure, which is currently allowed but remains relatively rare in Denmark, because it said the move could have too many negative consequences.

“We have discussed it thoroughly, also in our ethics committee," Ms  Møller said. "We came to the conclusion that it is difficult to predict the consequences of a ban – both for the involved boys, who could for example face bullying or unauthorised procedures with complications – and for the cultural and religious groups they belong to."

The Danish Health and Medicines Authority estimates that somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 circumcisions are performed in Denmark each year, primarily on Jewish and Muslim boys.

The majority of those procedures occur outside of the public health system and are done as part of a religious ceremony in the child's home, or in a private clinic.

The Danish Health Ministry announced on Monday that beginning in 2017 all circumcisions, regardless of where they take place, will have to be reported to Denmark's national patient registry.

According to a major 2007 study by the World Health Organization, roughly 30 per cent of the global male population is circumcised.

Past polls have shown that upwards of 87 per cent of Danes support banning the practice on boys under the age of 18, the Local reported.
Back to top
 

“I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours” Bob Dylan
 
IP Logged
 
mothra
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 34380
Gender: female
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #1 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:17am
 
A good thing too. Circumcision is barbaric.
Back to top
 

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #2 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:35am
 
mothra wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:17am:
A good thing too. Circumcision is barbaric.


Why? Barbaric is a strong word. If done properly circumcision should be pain-free with no long-term adverse effects.

Also, however much the naysayers insist it has no benefit, it simply cannot be denied that circumcised boys have an advantage vis hygiene (uncircumcised boys must proactively wash under the skin to keep it clean, circumcised boys do not).
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Unforgiven
Gold Member
*****
Offline


I have sinned

Posts: 8879
Gender: male
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #3 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:41am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:35am:
... uncircumcised boys must proactively wash under the skin to keep it clean, circumcised boys do not...


Circumcised boys don't need to wash it?
Back to top
 

“I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours” Bob Dylan
 
IP Logged
 
mothra
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 34380
Gender: female
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #4 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:42am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:35am:
mothra wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:17am:
A good thing too. Circumcision is barbaric.


Why? Barbaric is a strong word. If done properly circumcision should be pain-free with no long-term adverse effects.

Also, however much the naysayers insist it has no benefit, it simply cannot be denied that circumcised boys have an advantage vis hygiene (uncircumcised boys must proactively wash under the skin to keep it clean, circumcised boys do not).



It's not pain free.
Back to top
 

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #5 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:43am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:41am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:35am:
... uncircumcised boys must proactively wash under the skin to keep it clean, circumcised boys do not...


Circumcised boys don't need to wash it?


They don't need to lift any skin up to wash underneath.

It may seem easy, but little boys have to be taught this, and parents have to make sure they do it. If they don't there is always risk of infection. Circumcised boys don't have to be taught this - which is why it is counter-intuitive to insist men should be over 18 before they're allowed to be circumcised.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #6 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:53am
 
mothra wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:42am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:35am:
mothra wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:17am:
A good thing too. Circumcision is barbaric.


Why? Barbaric is a strong word. If done properly circumcision should be pain-free with no long-term adverse effects.

Also, however much the naysayers insist it has no benefit, it simply cannot be denied that circumcised boys have an advantage vis hygiene (uncircumcised boys must proactively wash under the skin to keep it clean, circumcised boys do not).



It's not pain free.


It is if its done under anaesthetic - and yes, I don't support circumcising newborns that are unable to undergo anaesthetic. Yes its true there is a chance there will be a period of mild discomfort in the 24 hours after the procedure, but hardly enough to warrant calling it "barbaric".

I'm not sure what you're basing your assertions on or whether you've had experience with the procedure, but I have had direct experience with it - where it was done properly with minimal pain and precisely zero short or long term adverse affects.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Mr Hammer
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 25212
Gender: male
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #7 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:55am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:53am:
mothra wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:42am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:35am:
mothra wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:17am:
A good thing too. Circumcision is barbaric.


Why? Barbaric is a strong word. If done properly circumcision should be pain-free with no long-term adverse effects.

Also, however much the naysayers insist it has no benefit, it simply cannot be denied that circumcised boys have an advantage vis hygiene (uncircumcised boys must proactively wash under the skin to keep it clean, circumcised boys do not).



It's not pain free.


It is if its done under anaesthetic - and yes, I don't support circumcising newborns that are unable to undergo anaesthetic. Yes its true there is a chance there will be a period of mild discomfort in the 24 hours after the procedure, but hardly enough to warrant calling it "barbaric".

I'm not sure what you're basing your assertions on or whether you've had experience with the procedure, but I have had direct experience with it - where it was done properly with minimal pain and precisely zero short or long term adverse affects.
what about females??
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #8 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:59am
 
I'm not talking about females homo. Circumcision comes from the word 'circum' which means round or circular. It refers specifically to the male penis, as you cut around the cylindrical penis. The term "female circumcision" is a contradiction in terms and therefore a misnomer. The correct word is female genital mutilation. Circumcision should only refer to the procedure done on males.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Unforgiven
Gold Member
*****
Offline


I have sinned

Posts: 8879
Gender: male
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #9 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:59am
 
Now a word from our sponsors:

http://www.jewishcircumcision.org/spectator.htm

Quote:
Contrary to common belief, circumcision has not always been practiced. Moses failed to circumcise his son (Exodus 4:25), and circumcision was totally neglected during the forty-year period in the wilderness (Joshua 5:5). Some Jews in the Hellenistic period (circa 300 b.c.e.-100 c.e.) chose not to circumcise their sons in an attempt to gain public acceptance.1 During the Reform movement in Germany in the 1840s, some parents did not circumcise their sons. Theodor Herzl was one of the most prominent figures who did not circumcise his son, who was born in 1891.2
Currently, circumcision is not universal among Jews either inside or outside the United States. The Circumcision Resource Center, a nonprofit educational organization, knows of hundreds of Jews in Europe, South America, and in the United States who either have not or would not circumcise a son. Even in Israel some Jews do not circumcise, and there is an organization that publicly opposes circumcision.3 ...

CULTURAL CONSIDERATIONS

Because most Jews are non-traditional and are not aware of the religious meaning of circumcision, most Jewish circumcisions are done for cultural not religious reasons. These cultural reasons often tend to be related to beliefs, attitudes, and feelings about Jewish survival and identity. (Jewish circumcision was never intended as a health measure, and there is no proven health benefit from circumcision.7) For example, an argument for Jewish circumcision is that it ensures the survival of the Jewish people. This contention is especially compelling because of our long history of having to fight to survive. But the biggest threat to survival today is assimilation, and there is no evidence that circumcision prevents or slows it. According to the National Jewish Population Survey, more than half of all Jews who marry choose a non-Jewish spouse.8

Associated with the desire for survival is the idea of identity. Many Jews believe that males must be circumcised to be Jewish. This is not true. As stated in the Encyclopedia Judaica, "Any child born of a Jewish mother is a Jew, whether circumcised or not."9 Alan Altmann, an uncircumcised son of Holocaust survivors, personally addresses the issue of Jewish identity:

Although uncircumcised, I am a very proud Jew, with a very strong sense of Jewish identity, and never hesitate to affirm my Jewish identity to Jew and non-Jew alike, but particularly to myself. I can assure you that having a foreskin has not made me less of a Jew than those without one, and in fact has given me additional reason to think about it.10
Tying Jewish survival and identity to circumcision underestimates Judaism's power and ignores its purpose. It neglects the significance of Jewish ideas and ethical values. Is a man who is circumcised and is a member of a cult or commits immoral acts more of a Jew than an uncircumcised man who is committed to Jewish values and lives an ethical life? Is a circumcised atheist more of a Jew than an uncircumcised believer in one God? Having a body part removed has its effects, but it does not guarantee one will be more religious or more commited to Jewish values...

HARM CAUSED BY CIRCUMCISION

The increasing doubts about Jewish circumcision are based on the understanding that it causes harm. Anatomical, neurochemical, physiological, and behavioral studies confirm what mothers already know: infants feel pain. Drs. Anand and Hickey, in a comprehensive review of recent medical literature on newborn pain, conclude that newborn responses to pain are "similar to but greater than those in adult subjects."11 This study is accepted by virtually all medical authorities and is often cited in the literature whenever there is a discussion of infant pain. As a surgical procedure, circumcision has been described as "among the most painful performed in neonatal medicine."12 Studies of infant responses show that the pain of circumcision is not like that of a mere pin prick. It is severe and overwhelming.

The relationship between infant pain and vocal response needs explanation. The cry may be reduced by the effect of anesthetics given to the mother during labor.13 These anesthetics enter the infant's body and, according to pediatrician T. Berry Brazelton, it can take over a week to leave.14 Other factors can also account for minimal vocal response. Justin Call, infant psychologist and professor-in-chief of child and adolescent psychology at the University of California, reports that "sometimes babies who are being circumcised . . . . lapse into a semi-coma."15 Tonya Brooks, president of the International Association for Childbirth at Home and a midwife, observes, "In four of the nine circumcisions that I have seen, the baby didn't cry. He just seemed to be suddenly in a state of shock!"16 Studies demonstrate that even though an infant may not cry during circumcision, the stress hormone level in the blood still increases dramatically, and medical researchers consider this change to be the most reliable indicator of pain response.17 Therefore, lack of crying does not mean that the infant feels no pain. It could mean that he is withdrawing from unbearable pain...
Back to top
 

“I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours” Bob Dylan
 
IP Logged
 
mothra
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 34380
Gender: female
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #10 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 11:02am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:53am:
mothra wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:42am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:35am:
mothra wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:17am:
A good thing too. Circumcision is barbaric.


Why? Barbaric is a strong word. If done properly circumcision should be pain-free with no long-term adverse effects.

Also, however much the naysayers insist it has no benefit, it simply cannot be denied that circumcised boys have an advantage vis hygiene (uncircumcised boys must proactively wash under the skin to keep it clean, circumcised boys do not).



It's not pain free.


It is if its done under anaesthetic - and yes, I don't support circumcising newborns that are unable to undergo anaesthetic. Yes its true there is a chance there will be a period of mild discomfort in the 24 hours after the procedure, but hardly enough to warrant calling it "barbaric".

I'm not sure what you're basing your assertions on or whether you've had experience with the procedure, but I have had direct experience with it - where it was done properly with minimal pain and precisely zero short or long term adverse affects.



I'm talking about it being done to newborns.

I stand by barbaric.
Back to top
 

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
IP Logged
 
BigOl64
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 14438
Townsville QLD
Gender: male
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #11 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 11:08am
 
mothra wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:17am:
A good thing too. Circumcision is barbaric.



Not really your problem now is it?


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #12 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 11:08am
 
Well perhaps you should have made that distinction mothra - your original statement clearly implied all circumcision.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
mothra
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 34380
Gender: female
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #13 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 11:09am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 11:08am:
Well perhaps you should have made that distinction mothra - your original statement clearly implied all circumcision.



Apologies. I was merely responding to the OP.
Back to top
 

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
IP Logged
 
Dasha
New Member
*
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3
Gender: male
Re: Danish doctors moot circumcision ban
Reply #14 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 1:01pm
 
Uncut penises are generally smelly. I prefer cut thanks.
Back to top
 

Dasha
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print