I was raised a heathen.

I send my son to a private Anglican school. Not for the religion, but because it provides a solid education.

Personally, I am an agnostic. And I have no problem with spiritual people - those that march to the beat of their own drum that is, and don't follow a religion.

I have an American friend who was raised a Mormon. He still believes in God, but he doesn't do religion. He doesn't bash religion either - he says there are lots of people living clean lives in Utah as a result of their faith. Fair point.

But I just can't swallow religion. Ridiculous things written in ridiculous old books by ridiculous old men. I don't think God has endorsed Donald Trump, and I sure as poo don't think some sky pixie is looking after me. But if there is a real God, he would have let my atheist grandfather into heaven. Of that I am sure.

In your view, is religion a force for good or evil? I urr on the side of evil.

If there is a God, I suspect She's mighty pissed off at what's been done in her name.

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:41am:


Religion does not mean God, it means way of life. For example: I am religious about my Bloody Mary on Sunday morning.

It all depends on how one approaches it.

For some religion is a crucial part in their lives, they look to God to help them get by.

For others it is a security blanket that they use to try and hide their fears and insecurities.

Some use it as a mask to hide behind and

Some use it to excuse abhorrent behavior.

I am a believer, but I also believe that God does not truly want us to devote our lives to an intangible, but to live well, just and honestly, treat people fairly and with love.

It is said, All things in moderation this includes religion.
Sure believe, and be honest in your belief, but do not be obsessive.

Above all, we must remember that ALL holy books be it the Bible, Koran or Tora were all written by MEN.

Men who are imperfect and prone to misunderstanding, and above all, caught in a time and place where things differ greatly from today.

These books have some truth in them (God influence) but are also open to interpretation.
We should live our lives as our morals dictate, that little voice in our heads (Gods) that reminds us. "That's not right."

If we follow this simple rule, the world would be a better, nicer place.

Peace to all and Merry Xmas

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 7:56am:


It is your right to believe or not as you wish.

Religion, as long as it causes no one any harm, is a good thing for many many people.

If you had read and understood the teachings, which I will not bother explaining, (pearls before swine).
and no Im not calling you a swine.
But mankind was given free will, as a result we suffer the consequences of this free will.
Pain, suffering etc.

Merry Christmas

Valkie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 8:02am:


(Thanks for the after-thought!) .. and of course not. It never entered my mind that you were calling me a swine who didn't know his pearls from his plastic fakes.

Valkie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 8:02am:


I wish you hadn't said that. Needless the say the 'Free Will' mantra is god's 'Get out of Jail Free' card for 4.5 billion years of Hell on Earth. 


Valkie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 8:02am:



Thank you, Valkie, and a sincere "Merry Christmas" to you too. 

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:41am:


Education for the masses came from the Church
Social welfare was begun and still heavily supported by the Church
Our system of law and democracy is found on the Bible
Slavery was ended by the church (over the opposition of many)
Child prostitution was ended by the church (over the opposition of many)
Freedom is a Christian principle.

Take a look around all the rich and free countries around the world. They have one thing in common - a Christian heritage.

And the reason you sent your kid to an Anglican private school is because.... where are the secular private schools?

Yadda wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 8:26am:





Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1304541795/123#123
Quote:



We choose.

No one can explain what they mean by God, so they fall back on such bogus concepts as Faith. Trying to sell your particular religion, is a sure sign that you need verification from others, and are looking for safety in numbers. Both of which you try to sell for the good of the unconverted.

The number of people who fall for this stuff, is a perfect example of why there is no hope for humanity. Add to that the population explosion, over exploitation of resources, and environmental degradation and you will need more than prayer to save your sorry ass.

Valkie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 7:41am:


Valkie, a reasonable post. I do wonder however whether Jesus would have condoned your reference to women as "sluts"?

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:30am:


It is still about controlling the masses.

Longy's church managed to sucker $500,000 in donations from the laity from which they could skim a goodly amount off the top for their own institutional sustainability whilst at the same time receiving annual 'grants' from the government to the tune of millions.

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:38am:


Oh yes.

I think we're finally singing from the same Hymn book, John. 

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 8:03am:


I marched myself on tours through several public schools. Then I took a look at two private schools. By comparison, the public schools were like zoos. I take it from your question that this is due to the chapel my son attends on a fort nightly basis?

You may be right, but that's not my view. My view is as follows:

Private schools are run more like businesses. Teachers are paid more in private schools, so you get a better cut of teacher.  Private schools need to maintain enrolments. Parents don't fork out big bucks to schools that don't perform. This means that teachers who don't cut the mustard will be sacked - something that simply doesn't happen in government schools. And because private schools need to entice parents to pay, things like NAPLAN tests are taken seriously. So are Year 12 results.

So, because user pays, a lot of government fat, burecracy, and ineptitude is scuttled. Private schools are employed by parents to do a job - educate.

I fork out $14,000 per year. I expect my pound of flesh. The school works for me. That's the deal.

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:45am:


Brilliant.

My niece had 8 years in a public school before moving to teach in a non-religious private school.

Chalk and cheese.

Not the vaguest similarity between the two.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:58am:


yes, your kids are also more likely to get molested at private schools, especially those run by a church

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:05am:


I think you might be right there.

To quote an old friend

A good man will always try to do good and an evil man will always aspire to evil.

But to make a good man do evil things, all that takes religion.

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:56am:

So you send him to a religious school because of his relationship with father then covertly teach him to reject the principle upon which the school is founded ?

Don't you think that's dishonest (not to mention hypocritical) ?

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 11:19am:

You mentioned his father (in reference to religion). That possibly implied (by way of Freudian slip) that religion may have been part your decision to send him there.

I'm more than OK with free thinking... I don't hold religious beliefs myself but I would say that I'm culturally of Irish/European Catholic descent and - by inheritance - sensibility.

But I would say that to send someone to an institution whose philosophy and beliefs I could not tolerate would, for me, be an act of hypocrisy... As hypocritical as sending them to an Islamic school.

There are two religions that have caused more problems, more hatred, more death and more torment than anything since the dawn of time.

The worship of MONEY

The worship of POWER

and the worst is when both combine, as in politics where money and power are worshiped and lusted after all day and every day.

There is no perfect church, no perfect religion, but mankind is not an animal.
We have self awareness and as such recognize that we are more than just a collection of chemicals and materials.

I have no problem with people who do not believe and have never and will never try to convert them.
Its their choice and I have no right to interfere, this is whee many religions come unstuck.
The prohibit this and prohibit that and they always say that theirs is the best and only god.
Its been like this since the dawn of mans self awareness.

But, some of us believe, and some never will, that's the truth and only matter.

I will not be dissuaded from my belief, you will not become a believer.

We should just respect each other as individuals and leave it at that.

UNLESS
I try to force you, punish you or cause you harm simply because you don't believe or don't believe in my God.

Then its a totally different matter, this is when the religion is no longer acceptable.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 12:04pm:


I like that. Very good. Equality of outcomes. Every child goes home with a prize. There are no winners or losers, only participants. No need for tears-before-bedtime.

In my day only the brightest got into university, but today the universities are stiff with students - some of whom don't even speak English. It's a farce. A lot of them leave university to take up driving a taxi. 

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:10am:


it doesn't ignore anything, rather it simply deals with the reality of it. Something you seem to struggle with

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 12:32pm:



where do you get this crap from?  You realise that your dreams aren't real, right?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:00pm:


No one said those in power are bad ... some are, some aren't , but that's irrelevant anyway. Those in power (within the church) only have power because they have found a way through the use of religion to manipulate people .

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:03pm:
What about in Islam?

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:48am:


Correct Smithy. Many non religious people send their children to private run and or religious schools ...

not for the better education ... because they don't get any better education

but because they think this puts their kids on the ladder of social climbing wannabes .....

funny thing is there are just as many drop outs or students doing drugs, being sexually active, bullying etc etc

and in fact I'd say some of the biggest ratbag boys & promiscuous females went to private Catholic Schools.

As far as the quality of teachers & the pay they receive .... they don't get paid anymore ....

that's totally agin the private business mantra.

Their motto is pay less work more hours.

Raven wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:38am:



There is [among many men and women who 'believe'], a common misconception about our creator, the God of the Bible.

And that misconception is that God, our creator, intends to forgive every man and woman,
...'coz we are only human'.

THAT, is not his purpose.

His purpose for mankind has been plainly stated,      ....again, and again, and again.


Matthew 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.


Matthew 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.


Matthew 7:19
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.




.




Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.


Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.


Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.





.





Raven wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:38am:


No Raven.

Just an inherent        HATRED      for truth.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 12:04pm:




Comment.....

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1458861531/0#0
Quote:

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:03pm:



"....have found a way through the use of religion to manipulate people."

Or through the use of 'philosophy' and political argument.        ......i.e. deceivers, using words, to deceive others.

aquascoot wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 3:57pm:



Good post aquascoot.

I've found my "purpose in life".         

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:35am:



When you resort to simply making up crap, what do you think you look like? COmplete tosser? loser? liar? simpleton?

It takes a special kind of retard to criticise people who raise a half million dollars for World Vision, Kids with Cancer and Cambodian kids.

And let me guess... your total outlay for the poor and hurting is... $0?

hypocrite.

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:45am:


My point is that while you rail against religion, the best schools in the land are run by the Church and the worst by the secular government. You might even ask why and then maybe you will answer your own questions. And why didnt you choose a SECULAR private school?  We both know the reason for that.

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:59pm:

Moreover, it seems grossly unfair in its arrogance towards those educators, to presume that the quality of the education they provide is not maintained and enhanced as a direct result of their faith.

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:58pm:


In principle I'm ok with Islamic schools, but then I read stuff like this and take the same opinion as you.

Educated at Islamic schools, Bee says she was taught not to mix with other Australian children.

“It was very religious. It did not feel like I lived in Australia at all," she remembers.

"Every child there was also Arab or from a Muslim background. The day started with praying, it ended with praying. We had Islamic classes as well. It was very religious based, I guess. Even the teachers spoke Arabic to us. They wore the scarf. It just really didn't feel like it was in Australia at all."
http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/escaping-child-marriage-in-western-s...

The fact that a significant majority of those that qualify for university entry are privately educated hasnt clued you in.


I cant be arsed finding it but there is a study somewhere that shows once in UNI the private school leavers do not do as well as the publicly educated students.

Probably because they are like hothouse flowers put out in the cold

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:00pm:


This could simply mean nothing more than that the children of parents who can afford to pay the fees demanded, are mostly professionals who passed on a better set of genes to their kids - and has nothing to do with the quality of education they received at a private school.

I myself went to a very expensive private school but ended up nothing more than a factory worker.

Go figure.

miketrees wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:07pm:




Good one.

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:41am:


I think religion is force for good, ten commandments is a good morality check for the whole world.

I am not religious but I believe in God, the only times I go to church are Christmas and Easter, I try to uphold love your neighbour as yourself but as we all know sometimes it is a hard thing to do.

Both my kids went to a catholic school and they turned out all right, I have no complaints, generally they can tell what is right and what is wrong.

Without religion and all the donots, I think we would live in a jungle, in other words who can eat who.

The way things are going religion is on the skids, in a hundred years religion will be practiced by a minority in the west anyway.

Gordon wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:04pm:


With all that face planting towards Mecca, I suppose they don't get time for irrelevant subjects like maths and Science. And that heathen tongue - English.

Again

Religion is harmless until it starts to punish its followers and others for not believing in that religions god and practices.

Then it becomes a problem to be sorted out.

Aussie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:18pm:


Why don't you go harass a mod? It's been what? Two days now?

miketrees wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:07pm:


I've read that somewhere before too Mike.

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:54pm:


Two days since what?  Your continued abuse?

Quote:


Indeed it is a debate Board.....one with Rules which I am constrained by and abide with.  The instant I get a 'green card' to freely abuse people like you do,  I'll just do exactly that....abuse you back, and I have far better ammo than you will ever have 'Nicole Page 2016.'

Aussie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 6:51pm:


Go whinge to the mods like the fake lawyer, cab driving pedant you are little man.

Yadda wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:28pm:


if that helps you to explain away anyone who disagrees with your world view, then you go for it old boy. I'm sure it'll help you to sleep better.

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:00pm:


you simply haven't looked for any dopey.

An analysis by Monash University education academic David Zyngier has revealed that many state schools with a high Index of Community Socio-Educational Advantage (ICSEA) ranking – including Princess Hill Secondary and University High School – on average perform as well as private schools with a similar ranking.

This group of middle-class public schools clocked up an average VCE study score of 34 out of 50 in 2015, compared with 33 in similar private schools.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/private-versus-public-schools-which-has-the-ac...


Not according to the research.

Professor Connelly and his team found that sending children to Catholic or other independent primary schools has "no significant effect" on any of these outcomes.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/private-v-public-schooling-20150416-1mm8bn.html

freediver wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 7:21pm:


It's a force for good, for sure.

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 7:34pm:


And yet there was Aussie, chanting the mantra, while his mind was other things.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:13pm:


x 10

Studies of university outcomes
A number of studies have also analysed the university outcomes of students from public and
private schools. The most recent of these found that attendance at private schools does not
provide any advantage in terms of academic performance at university [Li & Dockery 2014].
It found that students from public schools performed just as well as students from Catholic
and Independent schools in their first year of study at the university. It stated that the findings
indicate that higher SES schools artificially inflate their students’ university entry scores (for
example, by intensive coaching for external exams) and thus improve their access to
university. However, they do not perform as well when they have to work more
independently at university.

Education Research Brief
A Review of Academic Studies of Public
and Private School Outcomes in
Australia
Trevor Cobbold
April 2015
SAVE OUR SCHOOLS
http://www.saveourschools.com.au


This may have been the article I was thinking of.

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:41am:


I wonder, do you believe this as far as Muslims are concerned?  Should they be given the same leeway as Christians?  Should Hindus?  What about Buddhists?   "Nicole", I suspect you wouldn't give Muslims as much freedom as you do Christians, despite the majority of Muslims being peaceful.   

If Muslims could make the Sydney trains run on time I would say open the gates to more of them.

But Hell will freeze over before that happens.