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be heard on 18c and freedom of speech (Read 23844 times)
freediver
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #90 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 8:17am
 
Quote:
How many times must I do that for you freediver?   I have agreed with that.


You have hinted at it once so far, then avoided it. So you actually agree that he was jailed for "refusing to cease denying" the holocaust, but describe as a "blatant lie of the most scurrilous kind" my description that he was jailed for denying the holocaust, then produce evidence that supports my interpretation without making the distinction you do.

Is that why you spent so long avoiding going into any detail Aussie?
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #91 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 8:38am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 4th, 2016 at 8:17am:
Quote:
How many times must I do that for you freediver?   I have agreed with that.


You have hinted at it once so far, then avoided it. So you actually agree that he was jailed for "refusing to cease denying" the holocaust, but describe as a "blatant lie of the most scurrilous kind" my description that he was jailed for denying the holocaust, then produce evidence that supports my interpretation without making the distinction you do.

Is that why you spent so long avoiding going into any detail Aussie?


There you go yet again with deceptive language.  He was jailed for Contempt of Court.  His contempt was defiance of a Court Order.  The Court Order was that he cease distributing holocaust denial material.  He then distributed that material.  Ergo, he was not jailed for denying the holocaust.

How hard is that to understand?
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freediver
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #92 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 8:47am
 
Why is it deceptive Aussie? Evidence that you produced made the same conclusion.
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Aussie
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #93 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 3:41pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 4th, 2016 at 8:47am:
Why is it deceptive Aussie? Evidence that you produced made the same conclusion.


...
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #94 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 1:01pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 8:38pm:
Thanks for the question Aussie. Please quote me saying it the first time round, then I will tell you whether I "still" assert it.

Or, you could just keep things simple by sticking to what i actually say. Have you found the quote button yet?


I've found it FD.

Here's what you actually say:

Quote:
I could only sue you for defamation if I could demonstrate you cost me money


Do you stand by it?
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Frank wrote on Apr 10th, 2017 at 7:57pm:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #95 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 5:57pm
 
Sure. Has anyone suggested an alternative means of arriving at damages?

Gandalf, do you agree that Toben was jailed for denying the holocaust, or do you take the learned Aussie's view that he was jailed for not refraining from denying the holocaust (and anything else is a blatant lie of the most scurrilous kind)
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #96 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 6:11pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 6th, 2016 at 5:57pm:
Sure. Has anyone suggested an alternative means of arriving at damages?

Gandalf, do you agree that Toben was jailed for denying the holocaust, or do you take the learned Aussie's view that he was jailed for Contempt of Court by defying a Court Order not refraining from denying the holocaust (and anything else is a blatant lie of the most scurrilous kind)


I've corrected the question so that I am not verballed, and to make it accurate in terms of what I said, and not what FD wishes I had said.
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freediver
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #97 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 7:10pm
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 6th, 2016 at 6:11pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 6th, 2016 at 5:57pm:
Sure. Has anyone suggested an alternative means of arriving at damages?

Gandalf, do you agree that Toben was jailed for denying the holocaust, or do you take the learned Aussie's view that he was jailed for Contempt of Court by defying a Court Order not refraining from denying the holocaust (and anything else is a blatant lie of the most scurrilous kind)


I've corrected the question so that I am not verballed, and to make it accurate in terms of what I said, and not what FD wishes I had said.


Your own words Aussie:

Aussie wrote on Dec 2nd, 2016 at 7:51pm:
Finally...after how many pages, you get it correct:

Quote:
So he was not jailed for denying the holocaust. He was jailed for not ceasing to deny the holocaust?


....as he was ordered to do by the Court.


Your own words again Aussie:

Aussie wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 8:58pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 8:50pm:
Can you clarify that when you accused me of lying about whether the man was jailed for denying the holocaust (without explanation) you merely meant that he was jailed for refusing to cease denying the holocaust?


How many times must I do that for you freediver?   I have agreed with that.


The evidence you introduced Aussie:

Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 12:58pm:
Pausing there, it follows from the above that there is no room for dispute that Dr Toben has spent time in prison in Australia for criminal contempt constituted by the publication of material found to have racially vilified the Jewish people and which conveyed imputations including that there was serious doubt that the Holocaust occurred.


After agreeing with all this, do you still insist it is a "blatant lie of the most scurrilous kind" to suggest he was jailed for denying the holocaust?
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #98 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 7:15pm
 
Quote:
After agreeing with all this, do you still insist it is a "blatant lie of the most scurrilous kind" to suggest he was jailed for denying the holocaust?


Yes.
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And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs..yuk.  ~ GordyL.
Nicole Page 2016 exhorts that we kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
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Raven
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #99 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 7:19pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 6th, 2016 at 5:57pm:
Sure. Has anyone suggested an alternative means of arriving at damages?


Please provide the relevant legislation from any jurisdiction in Australia that shows a financial loss must be incurred in order to bring a suit of defamation against someone
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freediver
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #100 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 8:26pm
 
Are you trying to say that you know I am wrong but you don't know what the right answer is?
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #101 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 10:12pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 6th, 2016 at 8:26pm:
Are you trying to say that you know I am wrong but you don't know what the right answer is?


Yes Raven does know the answer, he'll show you his if you show him yours.
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gandalf
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #102 - Dec 7th, 2016 at 6:49am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 6th, 2016 at 5:57pm:
Sure. Has anyone suggested an alternative means of arriving at damages?


Yes - Raven has explained it to you several times.

Could you explain to me how Joe Hockey demonstrated financial loss in his win in the 'treasurer for sale' headline? I mean thats the only way he could have won right?

Quote:
Gandalf, do you agree that Toben was jailed for denying the holocaust...?


Yes FD - I was the one who explained that to you remember? I'm glad you understand this now since in our previous discussion you were far less sure:

freediver wrote on Oct 8th, 2014 at 1:11pm:
While I acknowledge that Toben was punished, it is unclear to me exactly what for.





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Frank wrote on Apr 10th, 2017 at 7:57pm:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #103 - Dec 7th, 2016 at 12:15pm
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 6th, 2016 at 7:15pm:
Quote:
After agreeing with all this, do you still insist it is a "blatant lie of the most scurrilous kind" to suggest he was jailed for denying the holocaust?


Yes.


Do you always find it this easy to promote two contradictory positions at the same time? Is this why you kept promising to run away from this discussion and not return?

Quote:
Yes - Raven has explained it to you several times.


So far none of Raven's 'explanations' contradict my own view, or provide any detail at all. Saying you can get compensated for loss of reputation does not contradict saying you can get compensated for the lost income associated with loss of reputation.

No alternatives have been put forward. You, Raven and Aussie have come up with nothing more than "you are wrong, but we can't say what the right answer is".

Quote:
Could you explain to me how Joe Hockey demonstrated financial loss in his win in the 'treasurer for sale' headline?


No.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #104 - Dec 7th, 2016 at 12:46pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 7th, 2016 at 12:15pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 6th, 2016 at 7:15pm:
Quote:
After agreeing with all this, do you still insist it is a "blatant lie of the most scurrilous kind" to suggest he was jailed for denying the holocaust?


Yes.


Do you always find it this easy to promote two contradictory positions at the same time? Is this why you kept promising to run away from this discussion and not return?

Quote:
Yes - Raven has explained it to you several times.


So far none of Raven's 'explanations' contradict my own view, or provide any detail at all. Saying you can get compensated for loss of reputation does not contradict saying you can get compensated for the lost income associated with loss of reputation.

No alternatives have been put forward. You, Raven and Aussie have come up with nothing more than "you are wrong, but we can't say what the right answer is".

Quote:
Could you explain to me how Joe Hockey demonstrated financial loss in his win in the 'treasurer for sale' headline?


No.


Incorrect.  All you have to do is read my Posts with both eyes open.
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And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs..yuk.  ~ GordyL.
Nicole Page 2016 exhorts that we kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
Post # 14 here ~  http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=14
 
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