Australian Politics Forum

Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 39575	Re: RIP Mr Castro Reply #105 - Nov 28^th, 2016 at 9:46pm Secret Wars wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 7:10pm: I suspect a set up for the classic and well worn leftie cop out. Communism never failed because it was never enacted. Not a "cop out", rather it is truth. No nation has ever enacted "Communism" as explained by Marx. All have enacted Stalinism to some degree or other.
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UnSubRocky

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Re: RIP Mr Castro
Reply #106 - Nov 28^th, 2016 at 10:43pm

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2016 at 7:01am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 10:40pm:

Gordon wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 4:03pm:

Lets see how many people here support a dictator who won't even let his people have the internet.

Well, at least some good came about his presidency.

Yeah he died.

What I mean is that having the internet leads to internet addiction. And the internet is so full of crap, that all the regulating of content won't do much for all the crap that gets put on websites. Having no internet has been a good thing for Cubans.

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Mortdooley Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6782 Texas Gulf Coast Gender:	Re: RIP Mr Castro Reply #107 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 12:36am Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and Fidel Castro. Saddam may have been the least evil of the three.
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Marla

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Re: RIP Mr Castro
Reply #108 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 7:28am

The late Comrade Castro, May Allah put peace upon his soul, did not represent a nationalist bourgeois approach to revolution and socialism. Comrade Castro was an essential force to export the socialist revolution to all developing countries in Asia, Africa, and Latin America.

His movement represented the fighting force for the proletariat and the exploited peasants. The capitalist domination has been defeated by a revolutionary uprising and people power; otherwise, capitalists do not give up their power to the working people.

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I am a kid in the nuthouse. I am a kid in the psycho zone. Psycho Therapy I am going to burglarize your home.

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: RIP Mr Castro Reply #109 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 7:33am .
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cods

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Re: RIP Mr Castro
Reply #110 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 7:35am

Mortdooley wrote on Nov 29^th, 2016 at 12:36am:

Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and Fidel Castro. Saddam may have been the least evil of the three.

tell that to the Kurds... Angry

The Halabja chemical attack (Kurdish: Kîmyabarana Helebce کیمیابارانی ھەڵەبجە), also known as the Halabja Massacre or Bloody Friday,[1] was a massacre against the Kurdish people that took place on March 16, 1988, during the closing days of the Iran–Iraq War in the Kurdish city of Halabja in Southern Kurdistan. The attack was part of the Al-Anfal Campaign in northern Iraq, as well as part of the Iraqi attempt to repel the Iranian Operation Zafar 7. It took place 48 hours after the fall of the town to Iranian army and Kurdish guerrillas.

The attack killed between 3,200 and 5,000 people and injured 7,000 to 10,000 more, most of them civilians.[1][2] Thousands more died of complications, diseases, and birth defects in the years after the attack.[3] The incident, which has been officially defined by Supreme Iraqi Criminal Tribunal as a genocidal massacre against the Kurdish people in Iraq,[4] was and still remains the largest chemical weapons attack directed against a civilian-populated area in history.[5]

The Halabja attack has been recognized as a distinct event of the Anfal Genocide conducted against the Kurdish people by the Iraqi regime under Saddam Hussein. The Iraqi High Criminal Court recognized the Halabja massacre as an act of genocide on March 1, 2010, a decision welcomed by the Kurdistan Regional Government. The attack was also condemned as a crime against humanity by the Parliament of Canada

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Belgarion

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Re: RIP Mr Castro
Reply #111 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 7:46am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 9:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 6:42pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 6:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 5:39pm:

Im enjoying watching you applaud communism and communist dictators. It would be difficult to be more discredited if you tried.

I'm not "applauding" anything other than it's successes. I am quite willing to acknowledge it's failures as well, longweekend. I am, unlike most, attempting to be fair. As I keep pointing out, Castro was an excellent revolutionary but a failure as a government leader. He had his advantages and his disadvantages.

You dont seem to be talking too much about its very, very long list of failures including the effective absence of freedom. Why dont you talk about that just for a change. And Cubans only have very limited access to internet and it is in PUBLIC where they can be monitored.

Freedom. Look it up. Cuba doesnt know what it means.

Freedom is relative at the best, Longweekend. Cubans under Castro were freer than they were under Batista. Batista was a failed real-estate agent from Daytona Florida (a career he returned to after he left Havana). He was also a thug and in the pocket of the Mafia (primarily from New York). If you spoke out against Batista you either "disappeared" or were killed in the street. If you weren't one of the ruling oligarchy, you weren't allowed to learn how to read or attend school. If you were female and poor and pretty you invariably ended up as a prostitute. There was no chance to advance yourself or you family. You were too poor to own land and invariably starved. There was little freedom of speech, association and political belief.

Under Castro, schools were free, medical care was free, there was no prostitution, the Mafia owned gambling joints were either closed down or nationalised. You were taught to read and educated. Medical care was free. Cubans in the sugar industry controlled and advanced. Cubans were proud to be Cubans, whether black, white or in between. What freedoms did they lack? They had freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of religion. They had freedom of movement within Cuba and could even leave Cuba if they could afford the exit visa. The only real freedom they lacked was political association - a not insignificant one but one which they are finding again.

Today, Cubans have far more freedom than they did at the start of the Revolution. A fact that most critics of Fidel and the Fidelistas refuse to achnowledge, preferring to paint the regime as the blackest of totalitarian, 1984 like, worse than the DPRK even. What is required is balance and that is sadly lacking from most of the criticism of the Fidelistas. Sure they had their problems but it must be acknowledged they had their successes as well. Are you prepared to do that? Roll Eyes

I agree with most of this, except the claim that there was no prostitution. Rather there was much less prostitution - it's not called the oldest profession for nothing.. Wink

I would like any critics of the Castro regime to explain to me how the Cuban people were better off under the rule of Batista. Not just individuals or special interest groups, but the people as a whole......Anyone?

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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Gordon

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Re: RIP Mr Castro
Reply #112 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 8:47am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 9:44pm:

Gordon wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 6:44pm:

Rife with capitalism? You make it sound like a bad thing. Grin

Unfetted, it's like a disease. Unregulated capitalism leads to suffering of the worst kind for the majority of the population, Gordon.

Quote:

Brian, I dealt with Govt departments and Govt owned 'private' companies and I can tell you, the Govt was an embugerance on every thing it touched. You could say it had the fecal touch.
Anything that was good about this country was done by entrepreneurs who got off their arse an used their ingenuity.

Gee, let me guess, it was Vietnam or China, right? Neither are Communist, except in name, something you appear unwilling to acknowledge. Neither has been Communist in the true sense of the word.

Quote:

Eye roll as much as you like, but I lived in a Commo country for 4 years, have you?

Nope. Never claimed to have. Personally, I prefer Socialism over Communism. I suspect you won't understand the difference so I won't bother attempting to explain it to you. Roll Eyes

You're a smug little prick eh?

When you've lived in a country with a communist apparatus, socialist ideals and a free market engine that supports the first two, come give me your thoughts. Until then, go and roll your eyes like a Valley Girl. Roll Eyes

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IBI

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Gnads

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Re: RIP Mr Castro
Reply #113 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 9:34am

Marla wrote on Nov 29^th, 2016 at 7:28am:

The late Comrade Castro, May Allah put peace upon his soul, did not represent a nationalist bourgeois approach to revolution and socialism. Comrade Castro was an essential force to export the socialist revolution to all developing countries in Asia, Africa, and Latin America.

His movement represented the fighting force for the proletariat and the exploited peasants. The capitalist domination has been defeated by a revolutionary uprising and people power; otherwise, capitalists do not give up their power to the working people.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Brian Ross

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Re: RIP Mr Castro
Reply #114 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 10:58pm

Gordon wrote on Nov 29^th, 2016 at 8:47am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 9:44pm:

Gordon wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 6:44pm:

Rife with capitalism? You make it sound like a bad thing. Grin

Unfetted, it's like a disease. Unregulated capitalism leads to suffering of the worst kind for the majority of the population, Gordon.

Quote:

Brian, I dealt with Govt departments and Govt owned 'private' companies and I can tell you, the Govt was an embugerance on every thing it touched. You could say it had the fecal touch.
Anything that was good about this country was done by entrepreneurs who got off their arse an used their ingenuity.

Gee, let me guess, it was Vietnam or China, right? Neither are Communist, except in name, something you appear unwilling to acknowledge. Neither has been Communist in the true sense of the word.

Quote:

Eye roll as much as you like, but I lived in a Commo country for 4 years, have you?

Nope. Never claimed to have. Personally, I prefer Socialism over Communism. I suspect you won't understand the difference so I won't bother attempting to explain it to you. Roll Eyes

You're a smug little prick eh?

When you've lived in a country with a communist apparatus, socialist ideals and a free market engine that supports the first two, come give me your thoughts. Until then, go and roll your eyes like a Valley Girl. Roll Eyes

You do enjoy using ad hominem insults to make your argument, don't you? You do realise that indicates you've lost the argument? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: RIP Mr Castro
Reply #115 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 10:59pm

Belgarion wrote on Nov 29^th, 2016 at 7:46am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 9:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 6:42pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 6:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 28^th, 2016 at 5:39pm:

Im enjoying watching you applaud communism and communist dictators. It would be difficult to be more discredited if you tried.

I'm not "applauding" anything other than it's successes. I am quite willing to acknowledge it's failures as well, longweekend. I am, unlike most, attempting to be fair. As I keep pointing out, Castro was an excellent revolutionary but a failure as a government leader. He had his advantages and his disadvantages.

You dont seem to be talking too much about its very, very long list of failures including the effective absence of freedom. Why dont you talk about that just for a change. And Cubans only have very limited access to internet and it is in PUBLIC where they can be monitored.

Freedom. Look it up. Cuba doesnt know what it means.

Freedom is relative at the best, Longweekend. Cubans under Castro were freer than they were under Batista. Batista was a failed real-estate agent from Daytona Florida (a career he returned to after he left Havana). He was also a thug and in the pocket of the Mafia (primarily from New York). If you spoke out against Batista you either "disappeared" or were killed in the street. If you weren't one of the ruling oligarchy, you weren't allowed to learn how to read or attend school. If you were female and poor and pretty you invariably ended up as a prostitute. There was no chance to advance yourself or you family. You were too poor to own land and invariably starved. There was little freedom of speech, association and political belief.

Under Castro, schools were free, medical care was free, there was no prostitution, the Mafia owned gambling joints were either closed down or nationalised. You were taught to read and educated. Medical care was free. Cubans in the sugar industry controlled and advanced. Cubans were proud to be Cubans, whether black, white or in between. What freedoms did they lack? They had freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of religion. They had freedom of movement within Cuba and could even leave Cuba if they could afford the exit visa. The only real freedom they lacked was political association - a not insignificant one but one which they are finding again.

Today, Cubans have far more freedom than they did at the start of the Revolution. A fact that most critics of Fidel and the Fidelistas refuse to achnowledge, preferring to paint the regime as the blackest of totalitarian, 1984 like, worse than the DPRK even. What is required is balance and that is sadly lacking from most of the criticism of the Fidelistas. Sure they had their problems but it must be acknowledged they had their successes as well. Are you prepared to do that? Roll Eyes

I agree with most of this, except the claim that there was no prostitution. Rather there was much less prostitution - it's not called the oldest profession for nothing.. Wink

I would like any critics of the Castro regime to explain to me how the Cuban people were better off under the rule of Batista. Not just individuals or special interest groups, but the people as a whole......Anyone?

This may help them:

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: RIP Mr Castro Reply #116 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 11:56pm Frank wrote on Nov 27^th, 2016 at 10:28am: Its time wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 4:01pm: http://www.news.com.au/world/south-america/fideo-castro-dead-at-90-state-televis... Legend dies aged 90 A 'legend' who never once asked his people what they thought of him at the ballot box. Some legend.
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Gordon

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Re: RIP Mr Castro
Reply #117 - Nov 30^th, 2016 at 6:36am

Oh...he cured HIV eh ?? Wink

Up until 1993 Cubans who were HIV positive, which included many men who have sex with men, were put in quarantines that one World Health Organisation official said were nothing more than “pretty prisons”.

According to a Human Rights Watch report, “the government [in 1997] … heightened harassment of homosexuals, raiding several nightclubs known to have gay clientele and allegedly beating and detaining dozens of patrons.”

Reports say those who visited LGBT venues and meeting places were arrested, fined, or threatened with imprisonment and even beaten up by police officers up until the late ’90s.

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IBI

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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20231 Gordon Gender:	Re: RIP Mr Castro Reply #118 - Nov 30^th, 2016 at 6:39am WOW. Anyone supporting anything Castro did after the revolution is on the wrong side of history. https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2016/country-chapters/cuba
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 39575	Re: RIP Mr Castro Reply #119 - Nov 30^th, 2016 at 11:41pm Gordon wrote on Nov 30^th, 2016 at 6:36am: Oh...he cured HIV eh ?? That wasn't what was claimed, fool.
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