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cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c (Read 1493 times)
freediver
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cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Oct 19th, 2016 at 1:37pm
 
...

Can anyone find the original thread on this?

Bill Leak complaint ‘prejudged’ by Race Discrimination Commissioner

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/bill-leak-complaint-prejudged-by-race-discrimination-commissioner/news-story/f34bfd7bcd3216df054fef4c05ff8a1a

Race Discrimination Commissioner Tim Soutphommasane has denied prejudging a racial vilification complaint against The Australian’s cartoonist Bill Leak, rejecting suggestions that public debate is being “shut down” by the Racial Discrimination Act.

Dr Soutphommasane in August said a “significant number” of people would agree the cartoon was a racial stereotype of Aboriginal Australians and he urged anyone who was offended by it to lodge a complaint under the controversial section 18C.

“Our society shouldn’t endorse racial stereotyping of Aboriginal Australians or any other racial or ethnic group,” he told Fairfax Media at the time.

Interrogating the commissioner at a Senate estimates hearing in Canberra, Liberal senator David Fawcett suggested Leak’s depiction of an Aboriginal policeman “clearly sober, in authority, taking a very reasonable action” was in fact a “very positive portrayal”.

Dr Soutphommasane answered: “Cartoons will be subject to all matter of public debate. It’s a healthy part of our democracy that we have that debate.”

Dr Soutphommasane said his rebuke of the cartoon reflected a widespread public view, including that of the Indigenous Affairs Minister Nigel Scullion.

“There’s no prejudgment that I make. I have a role as defined by the Racial Discrimination Act to promote public understanding and acceptance of the act and compliance with the Act.

“One: I have no role in handling complaints that are received the Australian Human Rights Commission and, two, the commission makes no legal determinations about matters that are brought before it in the form of complaints, so there is no judgment that the commission or I make.”

Senator Fawcett then questioned whether it was appropriate to threaten racial discrimination complaints to “shut down” people who stimulate important social debates.

Dr Soutphommasane answered: “I don’t accept your characterisation of anyone being shut down.”

Senator Fawcett argued many Australians would take issue with the commissioner’s view.

The hearing continues before the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee.

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Baronvonrort
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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #1 - Oct 19th, 2016 at 2:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 19th, 2016 at 1:37pm:
Can anyone find the original thread on this?



Search with google it's superior to the search function in this forum.
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #2 - Oct 19th, 2016 at 2:11pm
 
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1470347236;start=253;action=threadpagetext;reversetopic=0
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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #3 - Oct 19th, 2016 at 2:30pm
 
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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #4 - Oct 19th, 2016 at 8:53pm
 
I'm not sure why the conservative media and the conservative faction of the LNP have such an obsession with 18C.

The fact is that section 18D protects freedom of speech

Quote:
Section 18D of the Racial Discrimination Act contains exemptions which protect freedom of speech. These ensure that artistic works, scientific debate and fair comment on matters of public interest are exempt from section 18C, providing they are said or done reasonably and in good faith.
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/race-discrimination/projects/glance-raci...


So despite the campaign by the Murdoch media there really is no reason to change section 18c
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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.
 
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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #5 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 3:25pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Oct 19th, 2016 at 8:53pm:
I'm not sure why the conservative media and the conservative faction of the LNP have such an obsession with 18C.

The fact is that section 18D protects freedom of speech

Quote:
Section 18D of the Racial Discrimination Act contains exemptions which protect freedom of speech. These ensure that artistic works, scientific debate and fair comment on matters of public interest are exempt from section 18C, providing they are said or done reasonably and in good faith.
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/race-discrimination/projects/glance-raci...


So despite the campaign by the Murdoch media there really is no reason to change section 18c


I'm not sure a trully free society should be restricting public discourse only to speech that is 'reasonable' and done in "good faith". All 18D is saying is that you may be able to offend people - but subject to some rather arbitrary and subjective restrictions. Its easy to understand why opponents to 18C would object to this - they want carte-blanche to offend people.
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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #6 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 5:51pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 3:25pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on Oct 19th, 2016 at 8:53pm:
I'm not sure why the conservative media and the conservative faction of the LNP have such an obsession with 18C.

The fact is that section 18D protects freedom of speech

Quote:
Section 18D of the Racial Discrimination Act contains exemptions which protect freedom of speech. These ensure that artistic works, scientific debate and fair comment on matters of public interest are exempt from section 18C, providing they are said or done reasonably and in good faith.
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/race-discrimination/projects/glance-raci...


So despite the campaign by the Murdoch media there really is no reason to change section 18c


I'm not sure a trully free society should be restricting public discourse only to speech that is 'reasonable' and done in "good faith". All 18D is saying is that you may be able to offend people - but subject to some rather arbitrary and subjective restrictions. Its easy to understand why opponents to 18C would object to this - they want carte-blanche to offend people.



It is not for the law to be concerned about people being offended or the degree they are offended.

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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #7 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 6:25pm
 
Frank wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 5:51pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 3:25pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on Oct 19th, 2016 at 8:53pm:
I'm not sure why the conservative media and the conservative faction of the LNP have such an obsession with 18C.

The fact is that section 18D protects freedom of speech

Quote:
Section 18D of the Racial Discrimination Act contains exemptions which protect freedom of speech. These ensure that artistic works, scientific debate and fair comment on matters of public interest are exempt from section 18C, providing they are said or done reasonably and in good faith.
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/race-discrimination/projects/glance-raci...


So despite the campaign by the Murdoch media there really is no reason to change section 18c


I'm not sure a trully free society should be restricting public discourse only to speech that is 'reasonable' and done in "good faith". All 18D is saying is that you may be able to offend people - but subject to some rather arbitrary and subjective restrictions. Its easy to understand why opponents to 18C would object to this - they want carte-blanche to offend people.



It is not for the law to be concerned about people being offended or the degree they are offended.



So, there shouldn't be any defamation or libel laws in your opinion, Frank?   Roll Eyes
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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #8 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 10:14pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 6:25pm:
So, there shouldn't be any defamation or libel laws in your opinion, Frank?   Roll Eyes



You always speak in bad faith and are thick as they come, but even you should know the difference between being offended and being defamed.

Or if you don't - being a thicko of bad faith - you could always look it up.

If you knew how to look things up.

Offend

Defame

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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #9 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 10:50pm
 
Frank wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 10:14pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 6:25pm:
So, there shouldn't be any defamation or libel laws in your opinion, Frank?   Roll Eyes



You always speak in bad faith and are thick as they come, but even you should know the difference between being offended and being defamed.

Or if you don't - being a thicko of bad faith - you could always look it up.

If you knew how to look things up.

Offend

Defame


What a shame that you have to resort to dictionary definitions, and of course your usual ad hominem argument method to try and obscure that the reason why people feel they have been "defamed" or "libelled" is because they are offended by what has been published/said about them...   Roll Eyes

Oh, and you might like to look up what "the truth" has to do with defamation in such legal cases...   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #10 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 11:08pm
 
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence. It just means the Government can't stop you from saying it.

Defending a position by citing free speech is kind of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express.
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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #11 - Oct 21st, 2016 at 9:25am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 10:50pm:
Frank wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 10:14pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 6:25pm:
So, there shouldn't be any defamation or libel laws in your opinion, Frank?   Roll Eyes



You always speak in bad faith and are thick as they come, but even you should know the difference between being offended and being defamed.

Or if you don't - being a thicko of bad faith - you could always look it up.

If you knew how to look things up.

Offend

Defame


What a shame that you have to resort to dictionary definitions, and of course your usual ad hominem argument method to try and obscure that the reason why people feel they have been "defamed" or "libelled" is because they are offended by what has been published/said about them...   Roll Eyes

Oh, and you might like to look up what "the truth" has to do with defamation in such legal cases...   Roll Eyes



So you still can't tell the difference between offend and defame.

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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #12 - Oct 21st, 2016 at 9:42am
 
Poor Bill Leak is clearly confused about his opposition to 18C:

Quote:
BILL LEAK: ... I mean, yes, I think 18C is an abomination.


Then in the very next breath...

Quote:
Look, I can only assume that a lot of people genuinely believe that freedom of speech means the legal right to hurl abuse.

In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. Freedom of speech is not only necessary for the maintenance of a civil and free society, freedom of speech is what created our civil and free society.

It is all about the exchange of ideas, it is about letting people express their views in the marketplace of ideas, and have them contested and have them argued about, so that you arrive at the truth, you arrive at a good outcome.


http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2016/s4560511.htm

LOL excuse me Bill? freedom of speech doesn't mean the legal right to hurl abuse??

Of course I commend him for his contention about what freedom of speech should be about - but he is simply wrong to think that true freedom can discriminate 'hurling abuse' from a constructive 'exchange of ideas'. You can't have one without the other - from a legal point of view.

If Bill doesn't believe freedom of speech includes the "legal right to hurl abuse" then he can't credibly oppose 18C - let alone call it an "abomination".
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #13 - Oct 21st, 2016 at 12:33pm
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs

Isnt it sad when people are offended...
Who gives a bugger....
Be offended....I dont care....

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Re: cartoonist Bill Leak vs 18c
Reply #14 - Oct 21st, 2016 at 12:49pm
 
Isnt it sad that we are having a discussion about what we can and cannot say.
Isnt it sad that there is legislation being administered over the Australian people which restricts what we can and cannot say.
Freedom of speech is gradually being taken from us and no-one does a thing about it.
In years to come everything posted on a forum of this nature
will be censored...just in case it may offend someone...
Christ...let me live on a desert island somewhere.....
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