Australian Politics Forum - Same Sex Marriage

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Same Sex Marriage
Reply #525 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:22am

Mr Hammer wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 8:27am:

Emma wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 8:19am:

I'm not saying Churches must marry gay couples.. there is nothing wrong with marriage celebrants and all the other methods of legal marriage. I don't see a problem for churches at all. What you suggest is exactly what that looney far right MP Christensen was saying earlier this morning.. can't you see the fallacy of the argument? Gay couples are IMO NOT religious.. to seek marriage from an unwilling church flies in the face of their search for legality, and to say they would do so seems to me a 'worst case' scenario that makes no sense whatsoever.
Your lack of confidence in government is understandable however, as the current government seems to be firmly on course to allow the far right Members to dictate governance of our nation. A truly abhorrent thought. Brother Abbott still influences the thoughts and fears of the nation. Angry

So you've never heard of a gay Catholic? One sure way to remove the sting of hearing abot the Sodomites and the Gamorrites is to criminalise it. Of course, thats just the opinion of one of those swine.

Would you prefer hanging, beheading, or public high building exit without parachute?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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John Smith

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Re: Same Sex Marriage
Reply #526 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:25am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

I think their concern is over being compelled to perform gay marriages even when it goes against their conscience.

All the proposals I've seen have said that the changes to the legislation will not force religions to perform ceremonies if it goes against their beliefs. This is about legal recognition, not religious recognition.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Gnads

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Re: Same Sex Marriage
Reply #527 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:32am

tickleandrose wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:08am:

re Longweekend58

Quote:

Firstly, marriage has ALWAYS been essentially a religious institution and even now is still predominantly so. It is only in relatively recent times that it has even encompassed civil unions. It remains still for most a sacred trust.

In Australia, our law recognizes marriage from either a civil marriage or a religious marriage. Religious institutions can be very restrictive in terms of marriage, if we just go by its definition. For example, interfaith and inter-racial marriages. In a secular state like Australia, if a Muslim wants to marry a Christian, or a Jewess wants to marry a pagan, then, its legal under the definitions of civil marriage. To this end, same sex marriage its just extension of that.

Quote:

The second point is that 'it doesnt affect me' is perhaps the worst argument you can make. You can use that argument to support virtually any abomination from genocide, child marriages and detention without trial. You really need to make a substantive argument rather than that one.

The things that you have listed: genocide, child marriages are against the law. However, same sex relationship between two consenting adults are perfectly legal. So your second point does not stand. Furthermore, my argument goes beyond just ‘it does not effect me’, its about been treated equally regardless of sexual orientation - one of the basic foundations of human right.

Quote:

he third point is that you seem to ignore people's right to simply believe something is WRONG. You dont have to agree or even understand it, but to ignore it is quite wrong in its own right. Most opposition to gay marriage is based on morality and religious belief. These are not issues to simply ignore and treat as immaterial.

As I mentioned before, there are many things - good or bad that religion believe. To that extension, alot of religious people find marriage outside of their religion is immorall, and wrong. Does that mean we should exclude those unions as well? Alot of people believe children in detention is wrong, detention without a trial is wrong, But yet, they still happen

Quote:

Legalising gay marriage actually gives gays absolutely nothing other than a title they currently do not have. In may ways it looks and sounds like a rant to have something they dont have for no other reason than that they dont have it. Essentially, a toddler rant.

It easy for you to say this is a toddler’s rant since your own marriage is recognized and accepted. Same sex couples wants the same under the law. Its like having your voting right. Just one of you own is not going to make any difference, but its the principle that counts.

Why? ... just for the sake of principle.

I want what you've got. Roll Eyes

What's wrong with civil unions ..
don't they hold the same weight under the law?

Getting hitched in a registry office or living in a lengthy de facto relationship do.

Many hetrosexual couples today are choosing not to get married .... but when it comes to separation, division of assets & children ... it carries the same weight as marriage laws.

All gays will get is a chance to be a new customer base for the legal fraternity when they decide to end a relationship.

Whilst homosexual unions & partnerships or marriage may be more accepted ....

it will never be normal.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 28030 Gender:	Re: Same Sex Marriage Reply #528 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:34am bump
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John Smith

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Re: Same Sex Marriage
Reply #529 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:38am

Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:32am:

don't they hold the same weight under the law?

Getting hitched in a registry office or living in a lengthy de facto relationship do.

Many hetrosexual couples today are choosing not to get married .... but when it comes to separation, division of assets & children ... it carries the same weight as marriage laws.

All gays will get is a chance to be a new customer base for the legal fraternity when they decide to end a relationship.

Whilst homosexual unions & partnerships or marriage may be more accepted ....

it will never be normal.

they can't get married, and lengthy relationships between men aren't recognised as 'relationships', they're treated more as business partnerships. I know a guy who just split with his gay partner after 27 yrs. .. his partner isn't entitled to any of his super or vice versa. Their relationship is treated the same as if they were brothers or two friends, rather than a couple, sharing a house.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 28030 Gender:	Re: Same Sex Marriage Reply #530 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:40am So why wouldn't a legalized civil union suffice?
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72209 Gender:	Re: Same Sex Marriage Reply #531 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:41am Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:40am: So why wouldn't a legalized civil union suffice? why should they be treated differently?
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tickleandrose

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Re: Same Sex Marriage
Reply #532 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:44am

re Gnads:

Quote:

Why? ... just for the sake of principle.

I want what you've got. Roll Eyes

What's wrong with civil unions ..
don't they hold the same weight under the law?

Getting hitched in a registry office or living in a lengthy de facto relationship do.

Many hetrosexual couples today are choosing not to get married .... but when it comes to separation, division of assets & children ... it carries the same weight as marriage laws.

All gays will get is a chance to be a new customer base for the legal fraternity when they decide to end a relationship.

Whilst homosexual unions & partnerships or marriage may be more accepted ....

it will never be normal.

If its already carry the same weight under the law with civil unions, then why not grant them civil marriage under the law? The important issue here is choice. Heterosexual couples have the option of getting married or not. But if not, they are still protected under the law. However, same sex couple does not have the option of getting married, and thats an in-equality under the law. And this should be updated and fixed.

Never say homosexual union or partnerships can never be accepted, or never be normal. In the old days, its abnormal for inter-racial or people from different faith to get married. But now, its the norm, and accepted by the larger community. It may not happen this generation, but never is a long time.

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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 28030 Gender:	Re: Same Sex Marriage Reply #533 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:15pm John Smith wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:41am: Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:40am: So why wouldn't a legalized civil union suffice? why should they be treated differently? It's obvious why.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72209 Gender:	Re: Same Sex Marriage Reply #534 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:16pm Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:15pm: John Smith wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:41am: Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:40am: So why wouldn't a legalized civil union suffice? why should they be treated differently? It's obvious why. no it's not. You're allowed to marry who you like, why can't they?
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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34507 Gender:	Re: Same Sex Marriage Reply #535 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:18pm Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:15pm: John Smith wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:41am: Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:40am: So why wouldn't a legalized civil union suffice? why should they be treated differently? It's obvious why. Why? Because of your prejudice?
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Gnads

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Re: Same Sex Marriage
Reply #536 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:22pm

tickleandrose wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:44am:

re Gnads:

Quote:

Why? ... just for the sake of principle.

I want what you've got. Roll Eyes

What's wrong with civil unions ..
don't they hold the same weight under the law?

Getting hitched in a registry office or living in a lengthy de facto relationship do.

Many hetrosexual couples today are choosing not to get married .... but when it comes to separation, division of assets & children ... it carries the same weight as marriage laws.

All gays will get is a chance to be a new customer base for the legal fraternity when they decide to end a relationship.

Whilst homosexual unions & partnerships or marriage may be more accepted ....

it will never be normal.

If its already carry the same weight under the law with civil unions, then why not grant them civil marriage under the law? The important issue here is choice. Heterosexual couples have the option of getting married or not. But if not, they are still protected under the law. However, same sex couple does not have the option of getting married, and thats an in-equality under the law. And this should be updated and fixed.

Never say homosexual union or partnerships can never be accepted, or never be normal. In the old days, its abnormal for inter-racial or people from different faith to get married. But now, its the norm, and accepted by the larger community. It may not happen this generation, but never is a long time.

I didn't ... but they will never be normal.

If you think they will perhaps you might like to offer/talk Keysar Trad into the option of taking on a husband instead of another wife? .....

that way we will be assured that he won't be producing anymore children(than the 9 he has) & relying on the tax payer to support them. Grin

After all I'm sure the religion of peace will be too happy to accommodate the equality wishes/expectations of the homosexual community under Sharia Law. Grin

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: Same Sex Marriage
Reply #537 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:24pm

mothra wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:18pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:41am:

Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:40am:

So why wouldn't a legalized civil union suffice?

why should they be treated differently?

It's obvious why.

Why? Because of your prejudice?

No because it's BS

and there are far more pressing/important issues confronting this country & it's citizens than gay rights.

It's just a convenient diversion.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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mothra

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Re: Same Sex Marriage
Reply #538 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:30pm

Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:24pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:18pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:41am:

Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 10:40am:

So why wouldn't a legalized civil union suffice?

why should they be treated differently?

It's obvious why.

Why? Because of your prejudice?

No because it's BS

and there are far more pressing/important issues confronting this country & it's citizens than gay rights.

It's just a convenient diversion.

If it's no big deal, then just let them marry and be done with it.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72209 Gender:	Re: Same Sex Marriage Reply #539 - Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:40pm Gnads wrote on Sep 29^th, 2016 at 1:24pm: and there are far more pressing/important issues confronting this country & it's citizens than gay rights. agree, so why don't you let gays do what they like to each other so we can all move onto more important things.
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Poll
Question: Should same-sex marriage be legal in Australia
* This poll has now closed *
YES 29 (39.2%) NO 45 (60.8%) Total votes: 74 « Last Modified by: Emma on: Sep 28^th, 2016 at 10:16pm »