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Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves (Read 4886 times)
Bam
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #30 - Sep 24th, 2016 at 6:32pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 24th, 2016 at 1:35pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 24th, 2016 at 1:29pm:
Quote:
the previous system of basically first 6 elected gets 6 year terms seems quite fair to me

It is not the worst possible option. Were it not for the recount method, I would go so far as to say it is the fairest method available.

No, you support the rule options that YOU like. I see nothing at all wrong with the first 6 elected getting 6 year terms. It seems quite fair and reasonable.

I'm not surprised you support a method that splits the Coalition senators 16-12 when a mathematically fairer division splits them 15-13. You've got a strong history of supporting anything that advantages your beloved Liberals and denouncing anything that doesn't. You're very predictable in this way.

The recount method is the fairest method. It will produce a more even split of Senators, whereas the order of election method has a clear advantage for the major parties with larger amounts of support because their larger blocs will tend to elect Senators early in the count. It is unlikely that the recount method would allocate more major party Senators to long terms. That's why both major parties support it - self interest.
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #31 - Sep 24th, 2016 at 6:42pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 24th, 2016 at 1:35pm:
You have but ONE problem. YOU think it is a massive issue, but absolutely no one else in the entire country agrees. In a DD half the senators will end up with 3 year terms. They all stood for election knowing that.

NO ONE CARES - except you.


Grin Not even Hinch and Rhiannon? Roll Eyes

You post the most outrageous crap. That is the reason why nobody takes your posts seriously.
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #32 - Sep 24th, 2016 at 6:59pm
 
Quote:
The recount method is the fairest method.


So much fairer that the Liberal Party has supported it in the Senate on 3 occasions in the past. Longy do you support the Liberal party's support for the recount method?

Quote:
You post the most outrageous crap. That is the reason why nobody takes your posts seriously.


To be fair Longy didn't think of that himself. Aussie did. Now Aussie is one step ahead of me and has named three people who care. This is going to be long and tedious, but we have only done it once before.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: Ryan and O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #33 - Sep 24th, 2016 at 7:04pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 24th, 2016 at 12:45pm:
Quote:
I do not have any particular voting fidelity in the Senate and I will vote tactically. I have already decided to give Hinch my first preference at the next Senate election as a protest. Other Victorians should do the same.

Good for you. Is that in response to this theft of Senate seats, or did you already like him?

A bit of both.
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #34 - Sep 24th, 2016 at 7:21pm
 
I can not think of another example of an election where the people vote and then the major contestants in the vote get to do the math to work out and then choose the vote counting method will sway the vote to their best advantage.

In this case they have effectively changed the election in terms of the length of term to a first past the post election. In other words an election type that isn't supported in Australia or allowable in the same election.

This is cheating by any measure.
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #35 - Sep 24th, 2016 at 7:39pm
 
Longy supports first past the post voting. He is not sure why.
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #36 - Sep 25th, 2016 at 6:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 24th, 2016 at 7:39pm:
Longy supports first past the post voting. He is not sure why.


You really can be stupid FD. And now you tend to do it without even bothering to try. You well know my opinion on voting methods, so misrepresenting them rally makes you look like a fool.

This entire 'problem' is yours and yours alone. no one else cares.
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From one poster: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nanosecond, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family their parents
 
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #37 - Sep 25th, 2016 at 6:38pm
 
Of course Longy. You are never reluctant to give us the details are you?
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #38 - Sep 25th, 2016 at 6:59pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 25th, 2016 at 6:18pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 24th, 2016 at 7:39pm:
Longy supports first past the post voting. He is not sure why.


You really can be stupid FD. And now you tend to do it without even bothering to try. You well know my opinion on voting methods, so misrepresenting them rally makes you look like a fool.

This entire 'problem' is yours and yours alone. no one else cares.


Would you be so kind as to not speak for me please?

You well know my opinion on voting methods


Irrespective of what you have said in the past the determination was done on a first past the post basis and you seem to be supporting it, yes it is at odds with what you have professed to be your position in the past.
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #39 - Sep 26th, 2016 at 8:53pm
 
What has he professed in the past?
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #40 - Sep 30th, 2016 at 6:46am
 
A more detailed explanation on why what Senator Cormann was a lie:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/electoral-reform/broken-promises-stolen-senate-seats.ht...
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #41 - Sep 30th, 2016 at 1:43pm
 
How Long and Short Senate Terms are Allocated After a Double Dissolution (Antony Green's Election blog, 25/4/16; excerpt quoted)
Quote:
The question I've been asked more than any other in recent weeks is how the Senators elected at a double dissolution election are allocated to either long or short terms.

I wrote a post on the subject two years ago, but given the topic's relevance with a looming double dissolution, I thought I should re-post it with some minor changes.

The short answer is that the Constitution leaves the decision to the elected senators. A method based on order of election has always been used after past double dissolutions, but a second re-count method would produce a fairer outcome.

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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #42 - Oct 18th, 2016 at 4:32pm
 
Thanks Bam, it certainly would, which is why both major parties support it unambiguously whenever they don't have a direct vested interest.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #43 - Jul 31st, 2017 at 12:35am
 
Interesting. Derryn Hinch in the count back mechanism falls just over 44,000 votes of actually getting a quota. He actually gets elected because he is the Last one standing. Convince me, why exactly is it fairer to give him the full six year term as opposed to someone that did reach the quota?
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I am yet to see a trickle down lift anyone up
 
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Re: Scott Ryan and Deborah O'Neill - senate thieves
Reply #44 - Jul 31st, 2017 at 12:44am
 
Then it is clear that the dumped illegible Greenie "Senators" who sneaked past the guard should pay back their salaries to the taxpayers.
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