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Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin (Read 3138 times)
Unforgiven
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Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Aug 25th, 2016 at 5:29pm
 
Caught between a rock and a hard place. Jobs or cheap trains?

Victoria does not have an exemplary record for completing projects within budget and schedule.

Quite the opposite when unions use blackmail to stall projects near the end in order to secure big bonuses for workers.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/fear-victorian-train-jobs-will-go-to-c...

Quote:
Fear Victorian train jobs will go to China unless local content requirement increases

New trains for Melbourne could be made in China
WORKERS fear jobs will be sent to China unless Victoria increases a requirement for local content in a new $2 billion train-building contract.

Australian Workers’ Union state secretary Ben Davis warned Victoria was at risk of assembling a “glorified Lego set” under the Labor Government’s 50 per cent local build requirement for the project.

He said the government needed to increase its local build requirement for the project to 90 per cent, ensuring the 800 jobs stayed in Victoria.

“My view is the best way to maximise local content is to pick the bid that has the highest local content,” he said.

“If they are serious about it and serious about jobs, they have to make every effort to maximise local content.

“The 50 per cent local content means the shell could be imported from overseas and the fitout could happen here — essentially, a glorified Lego set,” Mr Davis said.

Three bidders are vying to build 65 high-capacity trains.

The Bombardier consortium, which has a Japanese backer, makes trains in Dandenong; the Evolution Rail consortium, which is backed by a China state-owned company, would do some work overseas; and Eureka Rail, which includes links to Japan, would do some of the work locally. A Bombardier spokeswoman was unable to common.

“We can confirm that all of our vehicles for Victoria are locally designed, engineered, manufactured and delivered from our manufacturing facility in Dandenong,” she said.

“It’s not in our DNA to just assemble trains.”

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten in the drivers seat of tram while visiting Bombardier rail transport manufacturers in Melbourne during June. Picture Kym Smith
Michael Sharp, on behalf of Downer EDI, in the Evolution Rail consortium, said: “Evolution Rail will comply with the local content requirement of at least 50 per cent, which will result in a significant number of jobs in Victoria.”

The Eureka Rail consortium did not return calls.

Concerns over the tender follow the NSW Government’s decision last week to award a $2.3 billion contract, to build a new intercity train fleet, to a consortium that will build the trains in South Korea.

South East Melbourne Manufacturers Alliance executive officer Adrian Boden said all the manufacturing could be done overseas while still meeting the 50 per cent local content requirement.

“The target could be reached through assembly of cheaply purchased components from overseas and expensive local assembly,” he said.

The State Government this week reaffirmed at least half of the build would be in Victoria.

The first of the seven-car trains are due to run on the Cranbourne-Pakenham line in 2018, once nine level-crossings are removed as part of the $1.6 billion sky-rail project.

The $2 billion project also includes the Pakenham train depot expansion and the introduction of high-capacity signalling.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #1 - Aug 25th, 2016 at 6:30pm
 
It's a vexed question which requires the Wisdom of Solomon, but for years now the public consensus has been one of buying cheap - and to hell if it's all Made in China and our manufacturing industries are going down the gurgler because of cheap labour markets.

It's why I don't agree with deregulation or Free Markets - because these are always to the advantage of the rice-bowl countries that have no unions to fight for decent wages.

Every time we buy cheap, it's a vote for economic self-destruction and eventual mass unemployment.

Part-time and Casual workers are now a huge part of the workforce, with these victims of government economic policy meaning that a sizable portion of the Australian workforce is condemned to be in Struggle Street for the foreseeable future.

Tariff barriers should be up so as to allow Australian workers to be on an equal footing with overseas slave-wage economies.

This is one for a referendum.   



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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #2 - Aug 25th, 2016 at 8:50pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 25th, 2016 at 6:30pm:
Tariff barriers should be up so as to allow Australian workers to be on an equal footing with overseas slave-wage economies.


UK?
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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #3 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 8:45am
 
If we pay $100 million for trains from China, that is $100 million we will never see again.
Its $100 million that will never circulate in the Australian economy.
Its $100 million that is gone.
The quality of the build is at best Suspect, trust me I have been involved in Chinese production for several years, it aint real good.

If we pay $200 million for trains built in Australia.
The workers who are employed to build the trains pay tax and spend the money in the Australian economy.
The materials purchased and the subcontractors pay tax and spend in the Australian economy.
The quality of work is far superior and it will cost far less to get them on the rails and working.
Repairs will be far simpler and more accessible.
And
All the workers who are employed to build the trains will not be on the dole.

Basically, the $200 million will stay in the Australian economy.

Now our political leaders cannot be so short sighted that they cannot see this.
So why do they do it?
Is it simply greed and stupidity, they obviously have this in spades.
Or is it for some other insidious reason, such as bribes or kickbacks?

It would be very interesting to know why our leaders are selling out Australia,
It could possibly be construed as TREASON
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Gnads
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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #4 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 9:11am
 
Bombardier tell lies.

Bombardier & ITOCHU(Japanese) Consortium

are building Brisbanes new Suburban trains in India.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-government-sign-44-bill...

For a leftard you sure do a lot of Union bashing .....

there's nothing wrong with a campaign to have these trains built in Australia .... it would mean many more jobs

and less costs for all the modifications that will be required because of shoddy workmanship/quality control on these

Indian & Chinese manufactured trains.

It cost the NSW govt(consequently the tax payer) millions to iron out the problems with it's Chinese made suburban trains.
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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #5 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 9:20am
 
they should be built here .... even if it costs a little more. So should the ships, the subs, tanks, govt. cars etc . Why are governments so determined to kill of manufacturing in this country?
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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #6 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 9:41am
 
now what could possibly go wrong with outsourcing to the cheapest country


Defence Industry Minister Christopher Pyne ordered the warning be given to DCNS — which won the $50 billion bid to build 12 submarines in April — after 20,000 pages of plans for their project in India were leaked.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-26/defence-urges-submarine-designs-be-kept-sa...


Our enemies know what are submarines are like before we know ... brilliant stuff.
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Gnads
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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #7 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 9:47am
 
Leaked from India?

For a price no doubt.

These idiots are costing us a fortune in the name of saving us money.

Pennywise -pound stupid.

Just like the lemon F35 Joint Strike Fighters. Billions & billions will be wasted.

They are so far .. a bottomless pit of expenditure.
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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #8 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 10:02am
 
Total manufacture in Australia won't happen. That would require unproven design and components which would affect reliability and serviceability.

Australia doesn't have the technical and commercial knowledge to manufacture these trains economically.

You just have to read the story of the Australian built Collins class submarines to see the technical and economic risks.
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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #9 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 10:03am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 26th, 2016 at 10:02am:
Total manufacture in Australia won't happen. That would require unproven design and components which would affect reliability and serviceability.

Australia doesn't have the technical and commercial knowledge to manufacture these trains economically.

You just have to read the story of the Australian built Collins class submarines to see the technical and economic risks.


many blessings

keep voting for your predicament !!!!

you empower this paradigm every time you vote for your politicians...

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

either way be at peace

namaste

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Unforgiven
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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #10 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 10:04am
 
it_is_the_light wrote on Aug 26th, 2016 at 10:03am:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 26th, 2016 at 10:02am:
Total manufacture in Australia won't happen. That would require unproven design and components which would affect reliability and serviceability.

Australia doesn't have the technical and commercial knowledge to manufacture these trains economically.

You just have to read the story of the Australian built Collins class submarines to see the technical and economic risks.


many blessings

keep voting for your predicament !!!!

you empower this paradigm every time you vote for your politicians...

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

either way be at peace

namaste

- : ) =


Is Mr. Light a bot?
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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #11 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 10:50am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 26th, 2016 at 10:02am:
Total manufacture in Australia won't happen. That would require unproven design and components which would affect reliability and serviceability.

Australia doesn't have the technical and commercial knowledge to manufacture these trains economically.

You just have to read the story of the Australian built Collins class submarines to see the technical and economic risks.


Blue prints sent through the internet solves that problem at the speed of light  - 299,792,458 miles per second (if memory serves me correctly  Cool ).
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Unforgiven
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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #12 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 10:54am
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 26th, 2016 at 10:50am:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 26th, 2016 at 10:02am:
Total manufacture in Australia won't happen. That would require unproven design and components which would affect reliability and serviceability.

Australia doesn't have the technical and commercial knowledge to manufacture these trains economically.

You just have to read the story of the Australian built Collins class submarines to see the technical and economic risks.


Blue prints sent through the internet solves that problem at the speed of light  - 299,792,458 miles per second (if memory serves me correctly  Cool ).


There is no longer such a thing as blue prints. They phased out in the 1960s.

White lines and characters on a blue background doesn't cut the mustard.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #13 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 12:23pm
 
There are no cheap trains bought offshore for the simple reason that all the potential tax revenue derived from work here vanishes.  That means the total amount is just spent and there is no way of recouping it, other than to charge higher prices for tickets to the end users, thus placing further strain on demand for wage rises and continuing the death spiral upward of costs/income forever, whereas when you pay local labour, they pay income tax, they spend money and pay taxes, and the government(s) gets it back.

Let's just look at Ballsup Baird's comment that trains built here would cost 30% more than South Korea.  The workers will all pay 30% income tax, and what they spend their money on will incur GST - and vast amounts of that will return to NSW from the Feds.

Stoopid is as stoopid does, as they say down in Green Bow, ALABAMA!

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« Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2016 at 12:30pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

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Re: Victoria: cheap trains or jobs; two sides of coin
Reply #14 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 12:27pm
 
John Smith wrote on Aug 26th, 2016 at 9:20am:
they should be built here .... even if it costs a little more. So should the ships, the subs, tanks, govt. cars etc . Why are governments so determined to kill of manufacturing in this country?


a little more...

you delusional dimwit...  Grin
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