Australian Politics Forum - A new Constitution for Australia?

Vic Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8208 Melbourne Victoria Gender:	Re: A new Constitution for Australia? Reply #15 - Aug 29^th, 2016 at 2:44pm Auggie wrote on Aug 29^th, 2016 at 2:39pm: issuevoter wrote on Aug 29^th, 2016 at 7:28am: The inertia to be overcome would be gargantuan. What on earth are you talking about? This is sort of politically based Aug. I can move it to the politicians suck board if you like - you will get more coverage in there
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issuevoter

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Re: A new Constitution for Australia?
Reply #16 - Aug 29^th, 2016 at 4:27pm

Constitutional amendments are difficult enough. A new Constitution is a huge national project with so many groups to be consulted and appeased. The only people who can do it are Parliamentarians, and they can't even agree on a budget. The republic debate founders on the legalities of Constitutional change and it has a lot of support. The stumbling blocks add up to inertia.

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Auggie

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Re: A new Constitution for Australia?
Reply #17 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 7:06pm

Vic wrote on Aug 29^th, 2016 at 2:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 29^th, 2016 at 2:39pm:

issuevoter wrote on Aug 29^th, 2016 at 7:28am:

The inertia to be overcome would be gargantuan.

What on earth are you talking about?

This is sort of politically based Aug. I can move it to the politicians suck board if you like - you will get more coverage in there

Ok, sure. Why not.

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Auggie

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Re: A new Constitution for Australia?
Reply #18 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 7:16pm

issuevoter wrote on Aug 29^th, 2016 at 4:27pm:

Constitutional amendments are difficult enough. A new Constitution is a huge national project with so many groups to be consulted and appeased. The only people who can do it are Parliamentarians, and they can't even agree on a budget. The republic debate founders on the legalities of Constitutional change and it has a lot of support. The stumbling blocks add up to inertia.

I recognize the challenges in project. I also don't buy the fact that it's impossible or unimportant. The Framers of the current Constitution didn't consult women or indigenous people; and given that suffrage was restricted (even among men), the Constitution didn't even have the support of the majority of the population.

I think it's high time we had a new Constitution. Of course, politicians are weary of a new Constitution: anything that constrains their power is bad; and this is what the new Constitution would aim to do. I think the public would lifetime term limits; and I think they'd even support a presidential system of government.

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The Progressive President

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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: A new Constitution for Australia? Reply #19 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 7:24pm Socialist Labor and the Greenies would want to introduce the Banning of Free Speech.
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: A new Constitution for Australia? Reply #20 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 7:59pm juliar wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 7:24pm: Socialist Labor and the Greenies would want to introduce the Banning of Free Speech. There's a particular way to do political and constitutional reform, and what you've suggested isn't it. The Constitutional reforms are purely political and procedural in nature.
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Its time

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Re: A new Constitution for Australia?
Reply #21 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:02pm

Unforgiven wrote on Aug 28^th, 2016 at 8:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 28^th, 2016 at 7:39pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2016 at 4:34pm:

For e.g. I think there should be term limits for members of Parliament; no senator or member should serve more than 12 years in his or her lifetime.

I think 8 years is more than sufficient, total. They can't do 8 yrs local govt, 8 yrs state and then 8 yrs federal.

How about 2 terms. Four years in parliament and four in jail.

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Auggie

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Re: A new Constitution for Australia?
Reply #22 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:03pm

Its time wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Aug 28^th, 2016 at 8:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 28^th, 2016 at 7:39pm:

[quote author=augcaesarustus link=1471847689/0#0 date=1471847689]
For e.g. I think there should be term limits for members of Parliament; no senator or member should serve more than 12 years in his or her lifetime.

I think 8 years is more than sufficient, total. They can't do 8 yrs local govt, 8 yrs state and then 8 yrs federal.

How about 2 terms. Four years in parliament and four in jail.

That's just ridiculous. I'm trying to have a serious discussion here. If you don't have anything to positive to say, then don't.

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Aussie

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Re: A new Constitution for Australia?
Reply #23 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:07pm

Auggie wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:03pm:

Its time wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Aug 28^th, 2016 at 8:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 28^th, 2016 at 7:39pm:

[quote author=augcaesarustus link=1471847689/0#0 date=1471847689]
For e.g. I think there should be term limits for members of Parliament; no senator or member should serve more than 12 years in his or her lifetime.

I think 8 years is more than sufficient, total. They can't do 8 yrs local govt, 8 yrs state and then 8 yrs federal.

How about 2 terms. Four years in parliament and four in jail.

That's just ridiculous. I'm trying to have a serious discussion here. If you don't have anything to positive to say, then don't.

I'll tell you what is ridiculous. Your proposal. Full of shallow thought bubbles, moot points, and has zero regard for practicalities. Research how many changes (single items) have succeeded in a Referendum and then imagine how completely impossible it would be to make a 100% change.

Back in the real World would be a great idea.

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Auggie

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Re: A new Constitution for Australia?
Reply #24 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:13pm

Aussie wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:07pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:03pm:

Its time wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Aug 28^th, 2016 at 8:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 28^th, 2016 at 7:39pm:

[quote author=augcaesarustus link=1471847689/0#0 date=1471847689]
For e.g. I think there should be term limits for members of Parliament; no senator or member should serve more than 12 years in his or her lifetime.

I think 8 years is more than sufficient, total. They can't do 8 yrs local govt, 8 yrs state and then 8 yrs federal.

How about 2 terms. Four years in parliament and four in jail.

That's just ridiculous. I'm trying to have a serious discussion here. If you don't have anything to positive to say, then don't.

I'll tell you what is ridiculous. Your proposal. Full of shallow thought bubbles, moot points, and has zero regard for practicalities. Research how many changes (single items) have succeeded in a Referendum and then imagine how completely impossible it would be to make a 100% change.

Back in the real World would be a great idea.

This is exactly what the establishment wants: they want these sorts of debates shut down with comments like 'it's ridiculous; it's impossible...'

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The Progressive President

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: A new Constitution for Australia? Reply #25 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:18pm The 'establishment' wants it because they are largely happy with it. If there was a genuine mood for wholesale holusbolus change, your position would not look so bizarre and absurdly idealistic. It's the sort of thing that High School students are given an Assignment on. Dream on and write about your Utopia.
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Auggie

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Re: A new Constitution for Australia?
Reply #26 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:22pm

Aussie wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:18pm:

The 'establishment' wants it because they are largely happy with it. If there was a genuine mood for wholesale holusbolus change, your position would not look so bizarre and absurdly idealistic.

It's the sort of thing that High School students are given an Assignment on. Dream on and write about your Utopia.

Ok, if you're so clever and pragmatic, then you bust this High School 'Assignment' by presenting your argument. What proposal have I said that is a 'utopia' or 'fantasy'?

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Aussie

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Re: A new Constitution for Australia?
Reply #27 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:26pm

Auggie wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:22pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:18pm:

The 'establishment' wants it because they are largely happy with it. If there was a genuine mood for wholesale holusbolus change, your position would not look so bizarre and absurdly idealistic.

It's the sort of thing that High School students are given an Assignment on. Dream on and write about your Utopia.

Ok, if you're so clever and pragmatic, then you bust this High School 'Assignment' by presenting your argument. What proposal have I said that is a 'utopia' or 'fantasy'?

Where did I claim to be either clever or pragmatic? I'm not interested in doing your homework, Caesar Augustus.

Fantasy is believing that your can destroy one document and in a referendum an entirely new one would get up. Pigs will fly.

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Auggie

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Re: A new Constitution for Australia?
Reply #28 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:32pm

Aussie wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:22pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:18pm:

The 'establishment' wants it because they are largely happy with it. If there was a genuine mood for wholesale holusbolus change, your position would not look so bizarre and absurdly idealistic.

It's the sort of thing that High School students are given an Assignment on. Dream on and write about your Utopia.

Ok, if you're so clever and pragmatic, then you bust this High School 'Assignment' by presenting your argument. What proposal have I said that is a 'utopia' or 'fantasy'?

Where did I claim to be either clever or pragmatic? I'm not interested in doing your homework, Caesar Augustus.

Fantasy is believing that your can destroy one document and in a referendum an entirely new one would get up. Pig's will fly.

You claimed a high ground on pragmatism when you criticized me for not being pragmatic.

I would like to state for the record that Aussie has failed to refute my argument and proposals. He is criticizing the ideas of this topic without even understanding what it is about. He is making baseless arguments based on emotion, without any logic or reasoning behind his comments. Therefore, I urge you, reader, to ignore Aussie's comments and disregard them as the ramblings of an ill-informed member of this Forum. He has lost the argument.

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Aussie

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Re: A new Constitution for Australia?
Reply #29 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:37pm

Not much else going on in the Forum at the moment, so I'll play a bit....just for you Caesar Augustus.

Quote:

I think one of the things we don't often talk about in Australian politics is political reform.

Really. It goes on all the time. How come you are unaware of that?

Quote:

Politicians expect us to follow rules, so it's only fair that they follow rules as well. The only way to do this is via the Constitution. Don't forget that the Constitution is a legal document, and is the supreme law of the land; if it says that something is not allowed, then it's not allowed and no law passed by the Parliament can conflict with it.

You're joshing me, right?

Quote:

For e.g. I think there should be term limits for members of Parliament; no senator or member should serve more than 12 years in his or her lifetime. This would help with constant rotation, and prevent the 'career-politician' that we hate so much.

So, you want 12 year maximums because we hate 'career politicians' so much. Really? Where is there any support for that premise to your proposal? Your 'we' does not include me.

Quote:

I also wonder what you guys think about adopting an American-style separation of powers system for Australia? I'm happy to go into details if anyone is interested.

Go on, please do. Tell us what the US system is and compare and contrast that with our system of exactly the same concept.

Quote:

You claimed a high ground on pragmatism when you criticized me for not being pragmatic.

Show me where I used the word 'pragmatic.' Show me where I accused you of anything. I made comments on your proposal. I'm sure you understand the difference, yeas?

Quote:

I would like to state for the record that Aussie has failed to refute my argument and proposals.

You have presented neither. You have posted shallow thought bubbles is all.

Quote:

He is criticizing the ideas of this topic without even understanding what it is about.

Incorrect. You want to rip up the current Constitution and have a new one in place tomorrow. That will never happen.

Quote:

He is making baseless arguments based on emotion, without any logic or reasoning behind his comments.

Bloody hell, I am taken back to Grade 10 Debating garbage. Really, lift your game. Using jingoism takes you nowhere.

Quote:

Therefore, I urge you, reader, to ignore Aussie's comments and disregard them as the ramblings of an ill-informed member of this Forum. He has lost the argument.

Marking your own homework is hardly a good look.

Wink

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« Last Edit: Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:44pm by Aussie »

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