Australian Politics Forum - The Trouble with Atheists

Amadd

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Re: The Trouble with Atheists
Reply #150 - Jan 28^th, 2017 at 1:56am

Setanta wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 1:51am:

Amadd wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 1:47am:

Amadd wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 1:27am:

Setanta wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 1:00am:

Amadd wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 12:56am:

Setanta wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 12:51am:

Amadd wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 12:48am:

OK mate. Whatever you say.
My point is only that I am an atheist and I don't fear any buggerhole god.

Is that OK with you buddy? Good, now we can all get some sleep.

Not a problem with me. I agree with your sentiment but not your method.

Don't care.

I have no expectations of you bar you live up to your own claims... Logic.

What claims are they? And will you discuss them with me logically?

I told you my claim that I think anybody's god is a piece of poo and I shall never fear such an insult to logic.

Strike me down now you pathetic insult god to humanity. I will never fear, because knowledge is power.

This is atheism.

I know. I know that fear is the crux of all religion and all other political usurpation of power.

Of course, power is what it's all about. There is no empathy and there is no heartfelt anything from those who wish to control.
So forget about your pathetic non-entity god, because all power is lost there. Nobody fears, nobody gives a poo.

No matter how many times I say it, I'm still a god botherer. You must be the only gay atheist in the village world.

Haha. Don't waste my data.

You need to define to me what you want me to fear and why you want me to fear it. This is the atheist way.

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« Last Edit: Jan 28^th, 2017 at 2:16am by Amadd »

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Setanta Gold Member Offline \/ Peace man! Posts: 15914 Northern NSW Gender:	Re: The Trouble with Atheists Reply #151 - Jan 28^th, 2017 at 2:34am Amadd wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 1:56am: You need to define to me what you want me to fear and why you want me to fear it. This is the atheist way. Why? I don't want anyone to have a fear of anything supernatural. That is the atheist way I would think, n'est ce pas? In fact "methinks the lady doth protest too much".
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issuevoter

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Re: The Trouble with Atheists
Reply #152 - Jan 28^th, 2017 at 7:36am

Well, as I said in the beginning of this thread, Atheists allow themselves to be described by, or declare, what they are not. That doesn't make a lot of sense. You would be better declare what you actually believe, while holding God-Freaks to account for what they believe.

I don't see it as defining anything, I just want to know what they are talking about. My ditsy old grandmother took me to church once. Even at 7, I could not share the idea of an old man in the sky, but it is worse than that. And the more God Freaks you talk to, the more pathetic the Gods become. They are all defined by the believer's limitations.

Unfortunately, even the most intelligent and eloquent God Freak will ultimately fall back on the concept of secret knowledge that is only revealed by believing it first. That used to work on ignorant populations like that which spawned the Bible, Koran, etc, etc.

That concept was used to build hierarchies of power. Reality is reality, there is no sudden flash of enlightenment, or spiritual nonsense about becoming one with a cosmic force, and anyone who tries to tell you different is a charlatan.

Its not just Abrahamics; the Buddhists, Hindus, and indigenous witch-doctors are all selling their brand of secret knowledge.

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Amadd

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Re: The Trouble with Atheists
Reply #153 - Jan 30^th, 2017 at 12:32am

Agreed, but atheists are labelled into one category as if it were some type of sect, by the religious believers.

This is merely another attack method in order to impart some type of fear upon those who do not fear their ridiculous beliefs.

I don't fear entering a house which has a legend of being haunted either. Does that make me an atheist and a member of a certain sect just because I don't believe in ghosts?

Nope, of course not. I just don't believe in the gobbledeegoo, so I don't fear it.

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Yadda

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Re: The Trouble with Atheists
Reply #154 - Jan 30^th, 2017 at 1:15am

issuevoter wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 7:36am:

I don't see it as defining anything, I just want to know what they are talking about. My ditsy old grandmother took me to church once. Even at 7, I could not share the idea of an old man in the sky, but it is worse than that. And the more God Freaks you talk to, the more pathetic the Gods become. They are all defined by the believer's limitations.

Unfortunately, even the most intelligent and eloquent God Freak will ultimately fall back on the concept of secret knowledge that is only revealed by believing it first. That used to work on ignorant populations like that which spawned the Bible, Koran, etc, etc.

Is there a God 'in the sky' ?

I offer this as 'proof of concept'......

The existence of the Jewish people as a surviving recognisable remnant of HIS people.

[the rest of the children of Jacob are still 'in the world'. but they have lost their sense of who they are/were. and, think of such people [the 'lost'] as spirit beings, imprisoned upon this earth, for a time.]

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1434160480/9#9
Quote:

God foretold [during the time of Moses!], that the nation [the people] of Israel will be found to be, unworthy [i.e. unholy], and that because the nation of Israel abandoned him, God would scatter Israel among the nations...
....
....

And though Israel are punished, for abandoning God, and for braking their covenant with their God...

Israel is not, will not, be cast off, by their God.

Jeremiah 31:37
Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

It was all foretold, that those who are Israel, are forgiven, and would be gathered again to their own land.

Of course, you are required to believe this, to believe this. Wink

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Q.
Is God unfair, or is he just clever [to discard the worthless] ?

Remember, that in Jesus parable, the tares and the wheat grew together.

Dictionary;
predestine = =
1 (of God) destine (someone) for a particular fate or purpose.
2 determine (an outcome) in advance by divine will or fate.

Shocked

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« Last Edit: Jan 30^th, 2017 at 1:27am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Raven

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Re: The Trouble with Atheists
Reply #155 - Jan 30^th, 2017 at 1:59am

Yadda wrote on Jan 30^th, 2017 at 1:15am:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 28^th, 2017 at 7:36am:

I don't see it as defining anything, I just want to know what they are talking about. My ditsy old grandmother took me to church once. Even at 7, I could not share the idea of an old man in the sky, but it is worse than that. And the more God Freaks you talk to, the more pathetic the Gods become. They are all defined by the believer's limitations.

Unfortunately, even the most intelligent and eloquent God Freak will ultimately fall back on the concept of secret knowledge that is only revealed by believing it first. That used to work on ignorant populations like that which spawned the Bible, Koran, etc, etc.

Is there a God 'in the sky' ?

I offer this as 'proof of concept'......

The existence of the Jewish people as a surviving recognisable remnant of HIS people.

So because the Jewish religion still exists that is proof there is a god?

People still believe in dragons and unicorns, do they exist? (Though to be fair dragons and unicorns are in the bible)

"The bible is proof god exists"

"But how can you be sure?"

"Because the bible tells us so"

Here is another proof of concept: God exists because Islam survives, hence Islam is the true religion of god.

Quote:

There have been thousands of god's, but only yours actually exists. The others are silly made up nonsense. But not yours. Yours is real.

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: The Trouble with Atheists Reply #156 - Jan 30^th, 2017 at 6:28am I am not asking for proof. I am not asking for a definition. I am asking what god freaks mean by god.
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Yadda

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Re: The Trouble with Atheists
Reply #157 - Jan 31^st, 2017 at 8:21am

issuevoter wrote on Jan 30^th, 2017 at 6:28am:

I am not asking for proof. I am not asking for a definition.

I am asking what god freaks mean by god.

'God' is an entity, in the same way as a government is an entity [relative to an individual].

We humans do not really understand our circumstances.

We busily make suppositions about our circumstances.

But atm, we don't have access to the knowledge which would allow us to know much more, than what we experience and what we see around us.

We feel the wind on our face, we feel the wetness of the rain when it rains upon us, at night we look up and we see the stars in the sky.

But we do not really understand 'our place' in this experience.

We do not understand who and what we are.

God knows who and what we are.

We do not.

We just busily make suppositions about who and what we are.

We are created beings, and the point of this [our] existence/experience is to reveal to ourselves, who and what we are.

And, the world around us, is an intentional distraction.

It is the choices which we make everyday, which begin to reveal, to ourselves, who and what we are.

.

Matthew 13:47
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

Jesus warned us. !!!!

Jesus didn't tell us, that 'God' was going to forgive everyone.

Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 7:14
.....strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Isaiah 48:17
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

THE DISTRACTING INFLUENCE WHICH THE WORLD HAS UPON ALL OF US, IS PUT THERE,
IS PUT THERE BEFORE OUR EYES, INTENTIONALLY.

THE WORLD, WHICH WE ALL EXPERIENCE, IS A TYPE OF 'SIEVE'.

That is why we are here, on this journey, 'lost in the world', ....to see what type of choices we will make.

"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;"

Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Like myself, you are free to believe, whatever you choose to believe.

And what you believe, will be a guide to your path in this life.

So go your own way.

Walk your own path in this life.

Have a nice life.

Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1485193466/16#16
Quote:

Men invariably, choose their own path in this life.

All men.

Some men choose to discriminate, between what is good, and what is evil.

Other men, refuse to do so......

.

I'm just a fool.

Quote:

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
...
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Come out of what ?

Babylon, a 'whore' ?

'Babylon' represents INFIDELITY, loving 'the world'.

It is a state of mind, ....which permits and allows the perverse and the unjust to flourish, and a state of mind which rails against accountability [righteous judgement against wrongdoing].

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« Last Edit: Jan 31^st, 2017 at 8:27am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 20956 A cat with a view	Re: The Trouble with Atheists Reply #158 - Jan 31^st, 2017 at 8:23am Quote: Day after day alone on the hill, The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still, But nobody wants to know him, They can see that he's just a fool, Beatles- Fool on the Hill (Beatles greatest hits album 67-70) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0AcHR_0PzU
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Amadd

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Mo

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Re: The Trouble with Atheists
Reply #159 - Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 1:16am

Yadda wrote on Jan 31^st, 2017 at 8:23am:

Quote:

Day after day alone on the hill,
The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still,
But nobody wants to know him,
They can see that he's just a fool,

Beatles- Fool on the Hill (Beatles greatest hits album 67-70)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0AcHR_0PzU

Quote:

“Christianity will go,” Lennon said. “It will vanish and shrink. I needn’t argue about that. I’m right and I’ll be proved right. We’re more popular than Jesus now. I don’t know which will go first, rock ‘n’ roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It’s them twisting it that ruins it for me.”

Quote:

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too.

Ahh, it's all about context isn't it?

Quote:

We just busily make suppositions about who and what we are.

And would you just be making suppositions that some other entity knows who and what we are, and also controls, and listens to prayers..etc.?

I know and I realise that a lot of people need to know that there is some larger purpose to our meagre existence (in the scheme of things), but all that we have in our reality is what is put forth in front of us to make the best of for the evolution of our species.

Maybe this corruption of truth is what we are stuck with for the time being, but many more by the day are leaning towards honest and practical thinking as a more viable solution.

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« Last Edit: Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 1:42am by Amadd »

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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: The Trouble with Atheists Reply #160 - Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 7:36am I do like the way Ricky Gervais said it on Stephen Colbert yesterday. You don't believe in 2999 gods, I just dont believe in one one more.
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issuevoter

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Re: The Trouble with Atheists
Reply #161 - Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 8:20am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 7:36am:

I do like the way Ricky Gervais said it on Stephen Colbert yesterday.

You don't believe in 2999 gods, I just dont believe in one one more.

That is an interesting perspective, but what is it that Ricky does not believe? He should have asked Colbert to explain himself, instead of letting him get away with an assumption of understanding.

Sorry, not this little black duck.

Occasionally, a God Freak will attempt to explain themselves. I have never heard any other than a childish need for a father figure.

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: The Trouble with Atheists
Reply #162 - Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 8:40am

issuevoter wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 8:20am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 7:36am:

I do like the way Ricky Gervais said it on Stephen Colbert yesterday.

You don't believe in 2999 gods, I just dont believe in one one more.

That is an interesting perspective, but what is it that Ricky does not believe? He should have asked Colbert to explain himself, instead of letting him get away with an assumption of understanding.

Sorry, not this little black duck.

Occasionally, a God Freak will attempt to explain themselves. I have never heard any other than a childish need for a father figure.

Well it was more in the context of a tweet Gervais had received from a creationist about being raped in hell.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Setanta

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Re: The Trouble with Atheists
Reply #163 - Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 8:13pm

issuevoter wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 8:20am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 7:36am:

I do like the way Ricky Gervais said it on Stephen Colbert yesterday.

You don't believe in 2999 gods, I just dont believe in one one more.

That is an interesting perspective, but what is it that Ricky does not believe? He should have asked Colbert to explain himself, instead of letting him get away with an assumption of understanding.

Sorry, not this little black duck.

Occasionally, a God Freak will attempt to explain themselves. I have never heard any other than a childish need for a father figure.

I would say Rick does not believe what people have explained their god to be. I've said the same here, no god that I have been informed about by men deserves believing in. It's not his mine or your fault if their definitions seem to be narrow minded man made justifications of what they themselves want. They are the gods I cannot believe in and as such I'm happy with the tag atheist. If a truly wonderous being comes forth to claim the title, I may reconsider, until then, all gods put before me are wanting.

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: The Trouble with Atheists Reply #164 - Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 9:39pm I finally caught that particular episode of the Late Show, which I have to record. I thought Ricky was extremely quick on his feet. I usually think of things to say several days later.
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