Australian Politics Forum

Mattyfisk

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 92261
Gender: male

Re: chapter 9
Reply #195 - Aug 4^th, 2017 at 10:21pm

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2017 at 9:17pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 4^th, 2017 at 1:47pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2017 at 11:33pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 1^st, 2017 at 3:35pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 1^st, 2017 at 11:49am:

Who cares how many stoves they have? It's none of your business. What matters is they aren't raping and pillaging their way across the middle east, just like Muhammad did.

Sorry, FD, are you saying God's chosen people did not rape and pillage their way across the Middle East?

Have you actually read the texts we're discussing here? I doubt Moses has. If he did, he forgot it pretty quick.

But I'm curious. Why are Muslim sub-retardation levels, squatting to piss and bowing down to pray our business? You've been obsessing over these things since 2007.

An answer to this would be great, FD. After all, your argument is that Muslims are inherently evil because of their holy text, but we're still trying to uncover why the Jews aren't evil with a much worse holy text. For some reason, you keep switching back to the old "but Jews aren't raping and pillaging their way across the Middle East" argument, even though their ancient legal text specifically orders them to.

Please explain?

From the opening post:

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 10:08am:

5. Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then

kill the Mushrikun

(see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Check out the similarities between your above passage and this one from Deuteronomy, FD:

Quote:

When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

Can you tell me the difference?

This is a question.

They look quite different to me Karnal. Even the worst bits of the old testament don't come close to Islam. It does not even make sense for the Jews to engage in imperialism the way Islam commands Muslims to. They'd be extinct in a few centuries if they did.

You support slavery, eh?

We understand. Freeeeedom, innit.

Back to top

IP Logged

Mattyfisk

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 92261
Gender: male

Re: chapter 9
Reply #196 - Aug 5^th, 2017 at 2:12pm

Sorry, FD, I'll ask you a more specific question.

Why does it not make sense for the Jews to engage in imperialism when they were ordered to do so by their prophet Moses?

How are these two military commands different?

A) Kill the enemy where you find them, but if they repent and make peace, let them go free.

B) Kill entire populations and destroy their cities, but if they submit and let you in, seize their goods and place them all in slavery.

A clue: it has to do with Freeeeedom.

We look forward to your answer.

Back to top

IP Logged

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: chapter 9
Reply #197 - Aug 5^th, 2017 at 4:40pm

Quote:

Why does it not make sense for the Jews to engage in imperialism when they were ordered to do so by their prophet Moses?

How the crap flows to excuse islamic terrorism.

The Hebrews were ordered to take the promised land only. (there is a clear cut boundary to the amount of land the Jews were given.

Moses never entered the promised land, it was long after Moses had died that the Hebrews were lead by Joshua to capture the promised land.

Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the LORD it came to pass, that the LORD spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying,

Joshua 1:2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.

Joshua 1:3 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses.

Joshua 1:4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast.

The promised land had a defined limit going back to the book of Genesis

Genesis 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Genesis15:19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,

Genesis15:20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,

Genesis15:21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Now when are the lies that muslims and their apologists keep sprouting to excuse islamic terrorism going to stop?

Back to top

IP Logged

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: chapter 9 Reply #198 - Aug 5^th, 2017 at 5:00pm Most likely never. Karnal craps on about Deuteronomy and it speaks of the past, even D20 which he seems fixated on speaks of the past. Like I keep telling him and other apologists the "Hebrew Bible" is a history. It speaks of times gone by and laws and rules to be obeyed in those times.... not today.
Back to top	IP Logged

Mattyfisk

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 92261
Gender: male

Re: chapter 9
Reply #199 - Aug 5^th, 2017 at 6:30pm

moses wrote on Aug 5^th, 2017 at 4:40pm:

Quote:

Why does it not make sense for the Jews to engage in imperialism when they were ordered to do so by their prophet Moses?

How the crap flows to excuse islamic terrorism.

The Hebrews were ordered to take the promised land only. (there is a clear cut boundary to the amount of land the Jews were given.

Given by Whom, Moses?

Back to top

IP Logged

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: chapter 9 Reply #200 - Aug 5^th, 2017 at 6:58pm So karnal, in the name of proper context, are those 7 tribes mentioned still existing today? Tomorrow? Hmmmm Nope... HISTORY. SHOTDOWN AGAIN...
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47356
At my desk.

Re: chapter 9
Reply #201 - Aug 6^th, 2017 at 8:58am

Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 5^th, 2017 at 2:12pm:

Sorry, FD, I'll ask you a more specific question.

Why does it not make sense for the Jews to engage in imperialism when they were ordered to do so by their prophet Moses?

How are these two military commands different?

A) Kill the enemy where you find them, but if they repent and make peace, let them go free.

B) Kill entire populations and destroy their cities, but if they submit and let you in, seize their goods and place them all in slavery.

A clue: it has to do with Freeeeedom.

We look forward to your answer.

I was not aware they were commanded to. Here is a link to a previous time I have answered this question. Feel free to bump the thread.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1497611982/2#2

Was A) meant to be thise verse?

5. Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Did you just twist convert or die into peace and freedom in a desperate effort to defend Islam?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 6^th, 2017 at 9:05am by freediver »

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

IP Logged

Mattyfisk

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 92261
Gender: male

Re: chapter 9
Reply #202 - Aug 6^th, 2017 at 12:33pm

freediver wrote on Aug 6^th, 2017 at 8:58am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 5^th, 2017 at 2:12pm:

Sorry, FD, I'll ask you a more specific question.

Why does it not make sense for the Jews to engage in imperialism when they were ordered to do so by their prophet Moses?

How are these two military commands different?

A) Kill the enemy where you find them, but if they repent and make peace, let them go free.

B) Kill entire populations and destroy their cities, but if they submit and let you in, seize their goods and place them all in slavery.

A clue: it has to do with Freeeeedom.

We look forward to your answer.

I was not aware they were commanded to. Here is a link to a previous time I have answered this question. Feel free to bump the thread.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1497611982/2#2

Was A) meant to be thise verse?

5. Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Did you just twist convert or die into peace and freedom in a desperate effort to defend Islam?

Strange. You haven't answered.

May I ask you another question?

Back to top

IP Logged

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: chapter 9 Reply #203 - Aug 6^th, 2017 at 12:42pm So karnal, in the name of proper context, are those 7 tribes mentioned still existing today? Tomorrow? Hmmmm Nope... HISTORY. SHOTDOWN AGAIN...
Back to top	IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: chapter 9 Reply #204 - Aug 17^th, 2017 at 4:06pm Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: chapter 9 Reply #205 - Aug 17^th, 2017 at 3:59pm please reply to me in the thread I posted in FD. I've asked this enough times.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47356
At my desk.

Re: chapter 9
Reply #206 - Aug 17^th, 2017 at 4:02pm

I have asked you the same question about this chapter enough times, in a variety of threads. Now that you have decided to answer, I think this is the logical place to continue. Or are you going to revert to your usual evasiveness? Do you think it is easier to mislead people about the context contained within the rest of chapter 9 in a thread where I have not quoted the whole chapter in the opening posts?

Back to top

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47356
At my desk.

Re: chapter 9
Reply #207 - Aug 17^th, 2017 at 4:46pm

Did you move my post Gandalf?

Why are you so reluctant to discuss chapter 9 in a thread called chapter 9 and in which the entire chapter 9 is quoted in the opening posts? Are you worried that the content of chapter 9 might reflect badly on your spin?

Why did you not complain when I brought this topic up there, and several other threads, by quoting from elsewhere, in an effort to get a straight answer from you, but now insist it must not be discussed here? Why the unusual combination of obsessive micromanagement of threads and poor choices of where to move people's posts to?

Back to top

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: chapter 9
Reply #208 - Aug 17^th, 2017 at 4:55pm

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Now that you have decided to answer, I think this is the logical place to continue.

Well what I "think" is that you appointed me moderator of the Islam sub-forum, with the authority to make and enforce my own rules. I have requested too many times that you desist from this annoying habit of spreading conversations around multiple threads. There is a very good reason for it - I often revisit old threads, and have been regularly frustrated by one conversation branching off into many threads because you decide to post replies in threads other than where they were posted in. Which makes it nigh impossible to keep track of. You do it all the time, and I kindly request that, as the Islam moderator, you desist. I can't make you stop, its your forum after all. But if you do insist on continuing I ask that you remove me as moderator and you can then make whatever rules you like here.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47356
At my desk.

Re: chapter 9
Reply #209 - Aug 17^th, 2017 at 5:04pm

That does not make sense. The other thread is not where the discussion began. It only ended up there because you felt compelled to give a straight answer after Karnal started going on about how wonderful you are at giving straight answers. You made no complaint at all when discussion of chapter 9 made it into that thread and several others, in an effort to get an answer from you. Surely if that was your real issue, you would want discussion of chapter 9 in a thread dedicated to discussion of chapter 9? Not fractured into multiple threads every time you turned evasive and then continued in whichever thread you decide to give the next straight answer in.

In any case, I gave plenty of links to where the previous posts came from. Not sure how that could be so frustrating. At this rate I will have to attempt to continue my attempts at getting a straight answer from you about chapter 9 in this thread, without quoting or linking to the one answer you gave in the other thread.

Is that allowed, or am I not allowed to discuss chapter 9 at all in this thread now?

Back to top

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

IP Logged