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John Howard threatened State? (Read 1349 times)
Armchair_Politician
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Re: John Howard threatened State?
Reply #15 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 8:49am
 
This ought to be common sense. It is legal for the Commonwealth government to legislate in order to over-rule State government laws. That's why the ACT's same-sex marriage laws failed. State governments do not have the power to legislate over the Commonwealth. They can, however, legislate over Councils. This isn't rocket science.
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longweekend58
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Re: John Howard threatened State?
Reply #16 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 8:57am
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 8:49am:
This ought to be common sense. It is legal for the Commonwealth government to legislate in order to over-rule State government laws. That's why the ACT's same-sex marriage laws failed. State governments do not have the power to legislate over the Commonwealth. They can, however, legislate over Councils. This isn't rocket science.



not a lot of bright people on here tho...
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Aussie
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Re: John Howard threatened State?
Reply #17 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 10:02am
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 8:49am:
This ought to be common sense. It is legal for the Commonwealth government to legislate in order to over-rule State government laws. That's why the ACT's same-sex marriage laws failed. State governments do not have the power to legislate over the Commonwealth. They can, however, legislate over Councils. This isn't rocket science.


What you say in principle is wrong.  The Commonwelath Government can only legislate in areas where it has been given 'power' under the Constitution.  In all other areas, States may do as they please.

You refer to marriage, and yeas, the Commonwealth can legislate in that area (because it has been given appropriate power by the Constitution) and any conflicting State legislation about it is over-ridden.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: John Howard threatened State?
Reply #18 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 10:05am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 8:57am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 8:49am:
This ought to be common sense. It is legal for the Commonwealth government to legislate in order to over-rule State government laws. That's why the ACT's same-sex marriage laws failed. State governments do not have the power to legislate over the Commonwealth. They can, however, legislate over Councils. This isn't rocket science.



not a lot of bright people on here tho...


You got that right, brother.... some people bring light wherever they go.. some bring light whenever they go away for a while...

Good to see your same old meaningless lambast is still in full play....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: John Howard threatened State?
Reply #19 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 10:14am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 8:20am:
Based on your other confused, confusing and contradictory writing I acan only image what this 'dissertation' is like. You are seek to create this 'Rule of Law' notion as if it is something you define rather than it being itself the body of law as it exists and the notion of obiedence to same.

Like so many other conspiracy nutters, you create this 'law' that serves your purpose despite it either not existing or not being what you think it is. You should try reading the Flat Earthers understand of the Law of Perspective. I grant you are brighter than they are (who isnt!) but the concept is the same.


Ah, yes - the old 'body of law as it exists' - therefore there are NO unlawful or wrongful 'laws' around, the current set we have is perfection itself, and nothing needs to be changed...

Perhaps you could tell that to those currently intent on changing so many things..... but then, since your addiction to the 'body of law as it exists' is more closely akin to a religious fervour..... I doubt you can see the difference.

You are, as usual, incorrect - The Law Itself is based on what is essentially a constitution for law-making - which is Magna Carta - which stipulates that minimum standards cannot be breached (now where does that sound familiar here and now today?) in the designing and implementation of legislation and of law as used daily.  For example, where a piece of legislation is inherently unfair, i.e fails the test of Natural Justice, then it is an illegal piece of legislation.

You need to be fully aware that the oath of office of police officers may be to 'uphold the law as written' - meaning that if any piece of inherently unfair legislation is not properly challenged - a process that is extremely expensive here in Oz - it will hold sway regardless of its legality and thus police are still obliged to uphold it.  On the other hand, it is entirely within the province of judges and even that lowest of the low in the criminal classes here in Australia, the magistrates, to overturn or refuse the right of any illegal or unfair etc piece of legislation to hold sway, since their oath of office is to 'do right by all manner of persons equally according to Law" (not law or legislation).

You have countless times been given the clear example of at least two salient law-abiding national bodies who have acted outside the Rule of Law, yet have done so by the process of installing legislation and regulation to suit themselves, which sets of rules have been rejected by Humanity at large and then suppressed by Humanity at large.  Please try to keep up in class.

That failure of the judiciary to strike down at first glance wrongful, inherently unfair or outright illegal legislation/regulation is one of the cornerstones of the current disaster that is Australia in waiting, with its loss of everything of value to suit some upstart twerps who imagine themselves better than the rest and thus .......  above the law.... and who use the process of making legislation/regulation as nothing more than a means of self-advancement and/or of oppression of any who may potentially oppose that self-advancement.

This is a huge area... I doubt you have the ability or the knowledge to understand it, since your addiction to the current 'body of law as it exists' is, as stated, of a religious nature not unlike that of IS and other rabid adherents to religious based ideologies.

If you are confused by the English language, dear Longie - perhaps you should consider another career apart from online discussion of complex and meaningful issues for modern and future society.  These are very REAL issues pertaining to yesterday, today and tomorrow... not some unfounded 'conspiracy theory', and your inability to understand and follow them in no way diminishes their importance to us all.
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« Last Edit: Jul 25th, 2016 at 10:25am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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longweekend58
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Re: John Howard threatened State?
Reply #20 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 11:13am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 10:14am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 8:20am:
Based on your other confused, confusing and contradictory writing I acan only image what this 'dissertation' is like. You are seek to create this 'Rule of Law' notion as if it is something you define rather than it being itself the body of law as it exists and the notion of obiedence to same.

Like so many other conspiracy nutters, you create this 'law' that serves your purpose despite it either not existing or not being what you think it is. You should try reading the Flat Earthers understand of the Law of Perspective. I grant you are brighter than they are (who isnt!) but the concept is the same.


Ah, yes - the old 'body of law as it exists' - therefore there are NO unlawful or wrongful 'laws' around, the current set we have is perfection itself, and nothing needs to be changed...

Perhaps you could tell that to those currently intent on changing so many things..... but then, since your addiction to the 'body of law as it exists' is more closely akin to a religious fervour..... I doubt you can see the difference.

You are, as usual, incorrect - The Law Itself is based on what is essentially a constitution for law-making - which is Magna Carta - which stipulates that minimum standards cannot be breached (now where does that sound familiar here and now today?) in the designing and implementation of legislation and of law as used daily.  For example, where a piece of legislation is inherently unfair, i.e fails the test of Natural Justice, then it is an illegal piece of legislation.

You need to be fully aware that the oath of office of police officers may be to 'uphold the law as written' - meaning that if any piece of inherently unfair legislation is not properly challenged - a process that is extremely expensive here in Oz - it will hold sway regardless of its legality and thus police are still obliged to uphold it.  On the other hand, it is entirely within the province of judges and even that lowest of the low in the criminal classes here in Australia, the magistrates, to overturn or refuse the right of any illegal or unfair etc piece of legislation to hold sway, since their oath of office is to 'do right by all manner of persons equally according to Law" (not law or legislation).

You have countless times been given the clear example of at least two salient law-abiding national bodies who have acted outside the Rule of Law, yet have done so by the process of installing legislation and regulation to suit themselves, which sets of rules have been rejected by Humanity at large and then suppressed by Humanity at large.  Please try to keep up in class.

That failure of the judiciary to strike down at first glance wrongful, inherently unfair or outright illegal legislation/regulation is one of the cornerstones of the current disaster that is Australia in waiting, with its loss of everything of value to suit some upstart twerps who imagine themselves better than the rest and thus .......  above the law.... and who use the process of making legislation/regulation as nothing more than a means of self-advancement and/or of oppression of any who may potentially oppose that self-advancement.

This is a huge area... I doubt you have the ability or the knowledge to understand it, since your addiction to the current 'body of law as it exists' is, as stated, of a religious nature not unlike that of IS and other rabid adherents to religious based ideologies.

If you are confused by the English language, dear Longie - perhaps you should consider another career apart from online discussion of complex and meaningful issues for modern and future society.  These are very REAL issues pertaining to yesterday, today and tomorrow... not some unfounded 'conspiracy theory', and your inability to understand and follow them in no way diminishes their importance to us all.



You have some seriously big issues in your understanding of life and how it works. Your understanding of law in particularly is very wrong and very biased. and all of this is because of your AVO which is beginning to make more sense as you go alone. You want law defined as YOU think it should so that 'smacking the missus' is okay... for you.  The court chose to disagree. So do I.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: John Howard threatened State?
Reply #21 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 11:17am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 11:13am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 10:14am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 8:20am:
Based on your other confused, confusing and contradictory writing I acan only image what this 'dissertation' is like. You are seek to create this 'Rule of Law' notion as if it is something you define rather than it being itself the body of law as it exists and the notion of obiedence to same.

Like so many other conspiracy nutters, you create this 'law' that serves your purpose despite it either not existing or not being what you think it is. You should try reading the Flat Earthers understand of the Law of Perspective. I grant you are brighter than they are (who isnt!) but the concept is the same.


Ah, yes - the old 'body of law as it exists' - therefore there are NO unlawful or wrongful 'laws' around, the current set we have is perfection itself, and nothing needs to be changed...

Perhaps you could tell that to those currently intent on changing so many things..... but then, since your addiction to the 'body of law as it exists' is more closely akin to a religious fervour..... I doubt you can see the difference.

You are, as usual, incorrect - The Law Itself is based on what is essentially a constitution for law-making - which is Magna Carta - which stipulates that minimum standards cannot be breached (now where does that sound familiar here and now today?) in the designing and implementation of legislation and of law as used daily.  For example, where a piece of legislation is inherently unfair, i.e fails the test of Natural Justice, then it is an illegal piece of legislation.

You need to be fully aware that the oath of office of police officers may be to 'uphold the law as written' - meaning that if any piece of inherently unfair legislation is not properly challenged - a process that is extremely expensive here in Oz - it will hold sway regardless of its legality and thus police are still obliged to uphold it.  On the other hand, it is entirely within the province of judges and even that lowest of the low in the criminal classes here in Australia, the magistrates, to overturn or refuse the right of any illegal or unfair etc piece of legislation to hold sway, since their oath of office is to 'do right by all manner of persons equally according to Law" (not law or legislation).

You have countless times been given the clear example of at least two salient law-abiding national bodies who have acted outside the Rule of Law, yet have done so by the process of installing legislation and regulation to suit themselves, which sets of rules have been rejected by Humanity at large and then suppressed by Humanity at large.  Please try to keep up in class.

That failure of the judiciary to strike down at first glance wrongful, inherently unfair or outright illegal legislation/regulation is one of the cornerstones of the current disaster that is Australia in waiting, with its loss of everything of value to suit some upstart twerps who imagine themselves better than the rest and thus .......  above the law.... and who use the process of making legislation/regulation as nothing more than a means of self-advancement and/or of oppression of any who may potentially oppose that self-advancement.

This is a huge area... I doubt you have the ability or the knowledge to understand it, since your addiction to the current 'body of law as it exists' is, as stated, of a religious nature not unlike that of IS and other rabid adherents to religious based ideologies.

If you are confused by the English language, dear Longie - perhaps you should consider another career apart from online discussion of complex and meaningful issues for modern and future society.  These are very REAL issues pertaining to yesterday, today and tomorrow... not some unfounded 'conspiracy theory', and your inability to understand and follow them in no way diminishes their importance to us all.



You have some seriously big issues in your understanding of life and how it works. Your understanding of law in particularly is very wrong and very biased. and all of this is because of your AVO which is beginning to make more sense as you go alone. You want law defined as YOU think it should so that 'smacking the missus' is okay... for you.  The court chose to disagree. So do I.



Please explain?

Your general statements are much too difficult to place in any context at all as regards this discussion...

It's been explained to you that an 'AVO' in no way carries with it any implication of 'smacking the missus' - perhaps that is what your kind do ...... you seem to understand that mechanism full well....

An AVO is itself an intrusion of violence by the State and in no way adheres to the Rule of Law.

I have things to do - I'll get back to dissecting you later....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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longweekend58
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Australian Politics

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Re: John Howard threatened State?
Reply #22 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 1:48pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 11:17am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 11:13am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 10:14am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 8:20am:
Based on your other confused, confusing and contradictory writing I acan only image what this 'dissertation' is like. You are seek to create this 'Rule of Law' notion as if it is something you define rather than it being itself the body of law as it exists and the notion of obiedence to same.

Like so many other conspiracy nutters, you create this 'law' that serves your purpose despite it either not existing or not being what you think it is. You should try reading the Flat Earthers understand of the Law of Perspective. I grant you are brighter than they are (who isnt!) but the concept is the same.


Ah, yes - the old 'body of law as it exists' - therefore there are NO unlawful or wrongful 'laws' around, the current set we have is perfection itself, and nothing needs to be changed...

Perhaps you could tell that to those currently intent on changing so many things..... but then, since your addiction to the 'body of law as it exists' is more closely akin to a religious fervour..... I doubt you can see the difference.

You are, as usual, incorrect - The Law Itself is based on what is essentially a constitution for law-making - which is Magna Carta - which stipulates that minimum standards cannot be breached (now where does that sound familiar here and now today?) in the designing and implementation of legislation and of law as used daily.  For example, where a piece of legislation is inherently unfair, i.e fails the test of Natural Justice, then it is an illegal piece of legislation.

You need to be fully aware that the oath of office of police officers may be to 'uphold the law as written' - meaning that if any piece of inherently unfair legislation is not properly challenged - a process that is extremely expensive here in Oz - it will hold sway regardless of its legality and thus police are still obliged to uphold it.  On the other hand, it is entirely within the province of judges and even that lowest of the low in the criminal classes here in Australia, the magistrates, to overturn or refuse the right of any illegal or unfair etc piece of legislation to hold sway, since their oath of office is to 'do right by all manner of persons equally according to Law" (not law or legislation).

You have countless times been given the clear example of at least two salient law-abiding national bodies who have acted outside the Rule of Law, yet have done so by the process of installing legislation and regulation to suit themselves, which sets of rules have been rejected by Humanity at large and then suppressed by Humanity at large.  Please try to keep up in class.

That failure of the judiciary to strike down at first glance wrongful, inherently unfair or outright illegal legislation/regulation is one of the cornerstones of the current disaster that is Australia in waiting, with its loss of everything of value to suit some upstart twerps who imagine themselves better than the rest and thus .......  above the law.... and who use the process of making legislation/regulation as nothing more than a means of self-advancement and/or of oppression of any who may potentially oppose that self-advancement.

This is a huge area... I doubt you have the ability or the knowledge to understand it, since your addiction to the current 'body of law as it exists' is, as stated, of a religious nature not unlike that of IS and other rabid adherents to religious based ideologies.

If you are confused by the English language, dear Longie - perhaps you should consider another career apart from online discussion of complex and meaningful issues for modern and future society.  These are very REAL issues pertaining to yesterday, today and tomorrow... not some unfounded 'conspiracy theory', and your inability to understand and follow them in no way diminishes their importance to us all.



You have some seriously big issues in your understanding of life and how it works. Your understanding of law in particularly is very wrong and very biased. and all of this is because of your AVO which is beginning to make more sense as you go alone. You want law defined as YOU think it should so that 'smacking the missus' is okay... for you.  The court chose to disagree. So do I.



Please explain?

Your general statements are much too difficult to place in any context at all as regards this discussion...

It's been explained to you that an 'AVO' in no way carries with it any implication of 'smacking the missus' - perhaps that is what your kind do ...... you seem to understand that mechanism full well....

An AVO is itself an intrusion of violence by the State and in no way adheres to the Rule of Law.

I have things to do - I'll get back to dissecting you later....



V stands for VIOLENCE.  got the picture yet?

you scream at the system hoping it wil mold itself to your demented version of what you think things should be like. it is an exercise in futility.

you have no understanding of law, which is why you ended up fronting court.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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