Australian Politics Forum - What did AFIC do with all that money???

freediver

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What did AFIC do with all that money???
Jul 11^th, 2016 at 8:42pm

The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils (AFIC) has been involved in two multi million dollar scandals recently.

They were largely responsible for the school funding rorts, which saw millions of dollars of federal government funds taken from Malek Fahd school. The case is still being resolved, but it looks likely that the school will be closed down due to the federal government withdrawing funds on a permanent basis. The scandal affected many other schools. The government has demanded they break all ties with AFIC. In at least one case, AFIC responded by disbanding the committee responsible for the school and reforming the same committee under a different name. They also maintained an official AFIC representative on the school board, who they insist the school is free to ignore. This case is also before the courts.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1466047258/281#281

AFIC was also involved in the halal scams, which saw some Australian abattoirs being forced to pay $27000 per month for halal certification. The reason they could get away with charging so much is that foreign governments banded together to control the halal certification market, by setting up regional monopolies within Australia with the express purpose of overcharging to the point of extortion. One justification provided for this was that the money goes to educating children, which is ironic given that the school funding scams were exposed around the same time.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1468052946/61#61

This begs the obvious question - what did AFIC do with all the money? What does AFIC think is so much more important than educating Muslim children in Islamic schools? To anyone who is not a supporter of institutionalised fraud, the need to ask this question would fall into the 'bleeding obvious' category. For Muslims of course, even asking the question is overstepping some kind of sacred boundary. In fact, it took me 16 pages to get a straight answer on whether the question should even be asked. Gandalf's favourite deflection to this is to misunderstand the question and pretend you are asking him if the schools gave the money to AFIC, rather than what AFIC did with the money.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 9:26pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 9:13pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 9:11pm:

Should Muslims be asking what AFIC did with all the money Gandalf?

I think everyone should be asking WTF the AFIC did with this money

I agree Baron - which is what we did. Turns out they used the money to run the school at a profit through 'administrative' and 'management' fees.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 11^th, 2016 at 1:37pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 5^th, 2016 at 6:22pm:

I don't think its important for me to find out what money we know was misused had been misused on exactly. Have I not been clear on that?

Crystal clear Gandalf.

In relation to what education funds gets used for:

FD's claim:
Muslims like Gandalf who insist ... that Muslims should not be asking them what they spend the money on.

what gandalf actually said:

I don't think its important for me to find out what money we know was misused had been misused on exactly.

But is it important to find out how the money was spent and whether it constitutes a "misuse" of education funds? Yes.

Crystal clear - but apparently too subtle a distinction for FD.

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freediver

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Re: What did AFIC do with all that money???
Reply #1 - Jul 11^th, 2016 at 8:43pm

Gandalf did however offer an excuse for AFIC's behaviour - apparently they are a "for profit" organisation. Unfortunately since then he has also repeatedly denied saying this, then pretended to misunderstand the question when asked for clarification.

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 8:37pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 8:30pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 8:13pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 7:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 6:00pm:

Muslims like Gandalf who insist it is expected for them to behave unethically because they are for-profit organisations, and that Muslims should not be asking them what they spend the money on.

Even after all these years, the sheer audacity of FD to just make crap after crap up - can still take my breath away.

Which bit am I making up Gandalf?

everything in that quote.

Here is the most recent example of you trying to pretend you never argued they are a for-profit organisation:

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 10:03am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 9:48am:

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 7:17am:

You said that AFIC itself was a for-profit organisation

I don't think so.

That's funny. You thought so before. Have you changed your mind, or merely decided it is no longer relevant?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 1:11pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2016 at 5:43pm:

They paid these fees to the AFIC. What did the AFIC do with them?

What does any for-profit organisation do with their profits?

You also tried to deny saying this in the other thread. I have had to quote it for you several times already.

Quote:

The only relevant issue here is that they were deemed to be operating 'for-profit' in relation to their management of Malek Fahd's school funds. Thats not from me, thats from the government, so take it up with them if you have a problem with that description.

Tell me Gandalf, what is more relevant to the discussion of halal funding - what AFIC does with it's "profits", or what a school did with theirs?

Perhaps you like to shift the goalposts now?

Curiously, Gandalf has started objecting to my suggestion that he quote me directly, even when I copy and paste some specific quotes of mine that he can use to show me saying what he keeps demanding I say:

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 7:24am:

Oh good. I'm glad we caught this one before moving on to the next one.

Quote:

It was not unequivocal FD, you cryptically said "I stand by what I said... feel free to quote me"

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 9^th, 2016 at 10:28am:

freediver wrote on Jul 9^th, 2016 at 8:01am:

Gandalf, did I state it as fact and clearly stand by that statement?

You stated it as fact, but you certainly haven't clearly stood by the statement. Not even now. Amazing, I give you the clearest of opportunities to state unequivocally what you actually "stand by", and you can't even do that.

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2016 at 8:59pm:

I absolutely stand by my original statement regarding the factuality of said claim. Feel free to quote me.

freediver wrote on Jul 6^th, 2016 at 12:56pm:

I posted on the previous page that I absolutely stand by it. When I state something as fact, I mean what I say and I stand by it, so feel free to quote me. I don't use hyperbole lightly Gandalf.

Happy now Gandalf?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 3:05pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2016 at 1:50pm:

If you are so keen to move on, why not simply concede this one? Are you saving it to come back to again?

You seem a bit touchy about this FD. I simply don't understand what the qualifier "feel free to quote me" means.

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 92292 Gender:	Re: What did AFIC do with all that money??? Reply #2 - Jul 11^th, 2016 at 8:57pm Oh, we all know the answer to this, FD. Some of us are too scared to say. They behead you for disclosing this sort of thing. They're quite fanatical about it. You're brave - you posted that Muhammed cartoon. Why don't you say what AFIC did with their school money?
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Dustwun

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Re: What did AFIC do with all that money???
Reply #3 - Jul 11^th, 2016 at 9:07pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 11^th, 2016 at 8:57pm:

Oh, we all know the answer to this, FD. Some of us are too scared to say. They behead you for disclosing this sort of thing. They're quite fanatical about it.

You're brave - you posted that Muhammed cartoon. Why don't you say what AFIC did with their school money?

My extensive research shows the head chopping starts when you blow raspberries at Mo. You'll probably justify get yours hands chopped off.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: What did AFIC do with all that money???
Reply #4 - Jul 11^th, 2016 at 9:11pm

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2016 at 8:42pm:

AFIC was also involved in the halal scams, which saw some Australian abattoirs being forced to pay $27000 per month for halal certification. The reason they could get away with charging so much is that foreign governments banded together to control the halal certification market, by setting up regional monopolies within Australia with the express purpose of overcharging to the point of extortion. One justification provided for this was that the money goes to educating children, which is ironic given that the school funding scams were exposed around the same time.

governments (plural) eh?

FD could you give me the list of "foreign governments" that participated in this "regional monopoly"? Thanks.

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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: What did AFIC do with all that money???
Reply #5 - Jul 11^th, 2016 at 9:23pm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-07/halal-certifiers-offer-payment-for-indonesian-market-access/6753126

One of Australia's largest red meat processors, JBS Australia Pty Ltd, paid $2.4 million for halal certification in 2014.

In 2013, AFIC attempted to give the MUI $20,000 as a donation towards the construction of a new office, but after sending a cheque to MUI the payment was refused.

"We wanted to make sure that I, as the president of the federation at the time, wanted nothing to do whatsoever with making a bribe to individuals."

AFIC spokesman Amjad Mehboob has denied it was an attempt to gain more access to Indonesia's halal certified market.

"One might think that it ... it may have some links with halal, it may have been ... it was not put that way ... people can make something out of it," he said.

"When I talk about [the Islamic Coordinating Council of Victoria] ICCV in particular, that money's spent in Australia for Australians," ICCV deputy chairman Ekrem Ozyurek said.

But Four Corners has confirmed the ICCV's profits from halal certification in Australia are also travelling to Indonesia to help build a sprawling $5 million development controlled by a senior MUI official.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: What did AFIC do with all that money???
Reply #6 - Jul 11^th, 2016 at 11:03pm

Dustwun wrote on Jul 11^th, 2016 at 9:07pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 11^th, 2016 at 8:57pm:

Oh, we all know the answer to this, FD. Some of us are too scared to say. They behead you for disclosing this sort of thing. They're quite fanatical about it.

You're brave - you posted that Muhammed cartoon. Why don't you say what AFIC did with their school money?

My extensive research shows the head chopping starts when you blow raspberries at Mo. You'll probably justify get yours hands chopped off.

No no, I’m a spineless apologist. The Muselman has taken away my Freeeeeedom, along will all other decent white people everywhere. Hand-wringing, shifty, evasive, yeah-but-no-but, arse-covering, cowering apologists.

FD’s brave. He can say it. He stands for Freeeeedom.

What did AFIC spend our money on, FD?

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« Last Edit: Jul 11^th, 2016 at 11:10pm by Mattyfisk »

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Mattyfisk

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Re: What did AFIC do with all that money???
Reply #7 - Jul 11^th, 2016 at 11:07pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 11^th, 2016 at 9:11pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2016 at 8:42pm:

AFIC was also involved in the halal scams, which saw some Australian abattoirs being forced to pay $27000 per month for halal certification. The reason they could get away with charging so much is that foreign governments banded together to control the halal certification market, by setting up regional monopolies within Australia with the express purpose of overcharging to the point of extortion. One justification provided for this was that the money goes to educating children, which is ironic given that the school funding scams were exposed around the same time.

governments (plural) eh?

FD could you give me the list of "foreign governments" that participated in this "regional monopoly"? Thanks.

You stop diverting. If you’re happy to see your poor children deprived of an education, so be it.

FD’s about to educate us all on you people.

FD?

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