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Who is the real historical jesus ? (Read 38184 times)
stryder
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #60 - Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:47pm
 
second example

John 2:1-12English Standard Version (ESV)

The Wedding at Cana
2 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples. 3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #61 - Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:50pm
 
stryder wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:47pm:
second example

John 2:1-12English Standard Version (ESV)

The Wedding at Cana
2 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples. 3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”


Again, it's not an example of hostility.

Where is the aggression?
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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stryder
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #62 - Jul 7th, 2016 at 11:01pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:50pm:
stryder wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:47pm:
second example

John 2:1-12English Standard Version (ESV)

The Wedding at Cana
2 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples. 3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”


Again, it's not an example of hostility.

Where is the aggression?


I think from those example, it does give a sense of some hostility between jesus and his family.

example 3

Matthew 12:46-50New International Version (NIV)

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #63 - Jul 7th, 2016 at 11:07pm
 
stryder wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 11:01pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:50pm:
stryder wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:47pm:
second example

John 2:1-12English Standard Version (ESV)

The Wedding at Cana
2 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples. 3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”


Again, it's not an example of hostility.

Where is the aggression?


I think from those example, it does give a sense of some hostility between jesus and his family.

example 3

Matthew 12:46-50New International Version (NIV)

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”


So in your mind, when a person sets boundaries, they're being hostile and aggressive.

Okkkkkayyyyy. Undecided
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Raven
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #64 - Jul 8th, 2016 at 2:28am
 
Religion's just what we we thought before we understood mental illness

"A bush talked to me"

"Wow what did it say? What did the bush say? Let's live our lives by what the bush said"
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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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stryder
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #65 - Jul 10th, 2016 at 6:30pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 11:07pm:
stryder wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 11:01pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:50pm:
stryder wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:47pm:
second example

John 2:1-12English Standard Version (ESV)

The Wedding at Cana
2 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples. 3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”


Again, it's not an example of hostility.

Where is the aggression?


I think from those example, it does give a sense of some hostility between jesus and his family.

example 3

Matthew 12:46-50New International Version (NIV)

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”


So in your mind, when a person sets boundaries, they're being hostile and aggressive.

Okkkkkayyyyy. Undecided


Matthew 10:35-38New International Version (NIV)

35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
    a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.
“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.


Matthew contains examples of Jesus' general attitude towards family relationships and doesn't sound positive.
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stryder
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #66 - Jul 10th, 2016 at 6:46pm
 
Raven wrote on Jul 8th, 2016 at 2:28am:
Religion's just what we we thought before we understood mental illness

"A bush talked to me"

"Wow what did it say? What did the bush say? Let's live our lives by what the bush said"


To those who ascribe to the Christian faith would undoubtly  accept Jesus' powers of healing, controlling the weather, walking on water, producing fish and loaves out of thin air.

In the 18th century, theologians held the view that the faith jesus was able to inspire in his patients by the power of his presence allowed them in effect to cure themselves.
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Raven
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #67 - Jul 12th, 2016 at 10:36am
 
stryder wrote on Jul 10th, 2016 at 6:30pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 11:07pm:
stryder wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 11:01pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:50pm:
stryder wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:47pm:
second example

John 2:1-12English Standard Version (ESV)

The Wedding at Cana
2 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples. 3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”


Again, it's not an example of hostility.

Where is the aggression?


I think from those example, it does give a sense of some hostility between jesus and his family.

example 3

Matthew 12:46-50New International Version (NIV)

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”


So in your mind, when a person sets boundaries, they're being hostile and aggressive.

Okkkkkayyyyy. Undecided


Matthew 10:35-38New International Version (NIV)

35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
    a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.
“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.


Matthew contains examples of Jesus' general attitude towards family relationships and doesn't sound positive.


The problem is though Matthew was written a good 50 years after the crucifixion so we have no real account of the Nazarene's view of his family.

As a conscientious Jew however he would have held his family in good stead. It's widely accepted that  his brother James was one of the 12 Apostles and his brother Judas (or Jude) is considered to be the author of the Epistle of Jude, though Catholics, who believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary disagree.

Following the death of his step father Joseph the Nazarene would have cared for his mother's wellbeing. He would be unlikely to turn her away.
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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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Raven
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #68 - Jul 12th, 2016 at 10:37am
 
stryder wrote on Jul 10th, 2016 at 6:46pm:
Raven wrote on Jul 8th, 2016 at 2:28am:
Religion's just what we we thought before we understood mental illness

"A bush talked to me"

"Wow what did it say? What did the bush say? Let's live our lives by what the bush said"


To those who ascribe to the Christian faith would undoubtly  accept Jesus' powers of healing, controlling the weather, walking on water, producing fish and loaves out of thin air.

In the 18th century, theologians held the view that the faith jesus was able to inspire in his patients by the power of his presence allowed them in effect to cure themselves.


Yes the placebo effect has worked for countless generations in the human population.
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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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The_Barnacle
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #69 - Jul 16th, 2016 at 1:14pm
 
stryder wrote on Jul 10th, 2016 at 6:46pm:
In the 18th century, theologians held the view that the faith jesus was able to inspire in his patients by the power of his presence allowed them in effect to cure themselves.


It obviously didn't work too well because in the 18th century there was an average life expectancy of 40.
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issuevoter
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #70 - Aug 13th, 2016 at 11:14pm
 
I have been watching a documentary on SBS about the origins of archaeology Among the many relics from the life of Jesus is, supposedly, one of the nails from the Crucifixion. It is a heavy four sided piece like a railroad spike. Its provenance is said to come down from the Emperor Constantine. It creates a bit of a puzzle, as does the whole record of Christ's execution.

All the depictions I have seen show Christ nailed through the hands and feet. It is widely believed that the weight of the body could not be supported in that way. The more common practice was to bind the limbs to the cross or a single stake. Iron was expensive, and I wonder if the Romans would have wasted it on a Jew who thought he was on intimate terms with God.
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Raven
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #71 - Aug 14th, 2016 at 4:04am
 
Modern day depictions of the crucifixion are indeed wrong issuevoter. In all likelihood the Nazarene would have been crucified through the wrists and, possibly, ropes tied around his arms to hold him on the cross.

That said it's also unlikely they would have wasted the effort of erecting a cross on a lowly Jew. It's very possible they would have crucified him to a tree.
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Amadd
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #72 - Nov 4th, 2016 at 11:00pm
 
In this day and age, it should be evident that Jesus never even existed as a person. He was merely an allegorical figure of the sun.

Yes, in the day, the allegorical story of planetary movement was probably the most important and the greatest story ever told. Also very common and widespread in varying forms.
However, science and literature has progressed beyond the need for the passing down of stories.
I think that should be embraced and modern day people should stop giving power to the usurpers of truth.
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issuevoter
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #73 - Nov 4th, 2016 at 11:41pm
 
I would not be prepared to dismiss the existence of a figure in Roman Palestine more or less fitting  the Christian myth. But walking on water and rising from the dead are examples of the snake oil used by early Christians to sell their product.

The Abrahamic religions are a stage of the evolution of the God concept. They are dangerous, and they are resurgent. We have the politically correct governments of secular states bending over backwards to accommodate their false doctrines, in the name of open-mindedness. What a contradiction.
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Amadd
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #74 - Nov 5th, 2016 at 1:51am
 
There is no danger when people just think for themselves...and with empathy.

Of course, early scientific information was spread by stories. There was no other vehicle to take it to the masses when literature was not widespread.

When these allegories of scientific information got bastardised with the rise of literature, then the problem of the power to the churches arose.

How the hell can we let them keep this power in this day and age? Spreading bs, molesting children for their own disgusting desires and reaping in money from the hard working masses:?

It's a joke that we still believe this utter nonsense.
Their real desire is corruption, not truth.

When we all will see the light, it will be a very bright day indeed.  Smiley



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« Last Edit: Nov 5th, 2016 at 10:13am by Amadd »  
 
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