Australian Politics Forum - first islamic enclave gone

freediver

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Re: first islamic enclave gone
Reply #225 - Jun 30^th, 2016 at 8:11pm

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But FD, you only brought it up because you were making a song and dance about why I backpeddled - remember?

You appeared to be backpedaling. Hence the question. As a non-hive-minded Muslim, do you think it is important to find out what the AFIC did with all that money? Would you preferred I told you what your opinion is?

Quote:

And no one is saying anything about motive, you just made that up.

Is this not a reference to the motives of AFIC?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 28^th, 2016 at 12:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2016 at 12:14pm:

Do you think it is the police's job to find out what the AFIC did with all that money?

It went into inflated backdated rents and management fees, we've been over this. The only reason you are pushing this is because you are clinging on to the completely baseless terrorist/criminal activity angle. The only issue here is that it was acting for-profit, which is wrong, but thats what for-profit organisations do.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 1:11pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2016 at 5:43pm:

They paid these fees to the AFIC. What did the AFIC do with them?

What does any for-profit organisation do with their profits?

Quote:

Sorry FD, but you are ignorant of the basic facts of the case:

That is talking about the school Gandalf. We are talking about AFIC. Unless of course you think the school allowed itself to be defrauded because it was acting as a for-profit organisation. Is that what you think Gandalf?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: first islamic enclave gone
Reply #226 - Jun 30^th, 2016 at 8:38pm

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 8:11pm:

That is talking about the school Gandalf. We are talking about AFIC.

We are talking about both, and so are they.

The minister referred to "the authority that operates Malek Fahd Islamic School" - which is AFIC, or at least was at the time.

Quote:

"Last year the department issued a formal compliance notice when it found that the school authority was not complying with fundamental governance, financial and accountability requirements of the Australian Education Act 2013," he said.

"After carefully considering the response to the issues raised in the compliance notice, my department had to make the difficult decision to revoke the funding approval.

"The act requires, amongst other obligations, that all school authorities operate not-for-profit, be a 'fit and proper person' and ensure that funding provided is used only for school education."

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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47359 At my desk.	Re: first islamic enclave gone Reply #227 - Jul 1^st, 2016 at 8:11am Quote: We are talking about both, and so are they. When you said AFIC was operating as a for-profit organisation, were you talking about AFIC? In what sense are they a for-profit organisation?
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Mattyfisk

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Re: first islamic enclave gone
Reply #228 - Jul 1^st, 2016 at 9:56am

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2016 at 8:11am:

Quote:

We are talking about both, and so are they.

When you said AFIC was operating as a for-profit organisation, were you talking about AFIC?

In what sense are they a for-profit organisation?

Oh, I can answer that, FD. In the sense that they squirreled away government funds into separate bank accounts rather than spending all the money on education.

Apparently, and I wasn't aware of this, independent schools can ONLY be non-profit organizations as a condition of their funding and accreditation. This school was closed down because it breached this.

Of course, you and I know the money went to fund terrorism, but no one was charged because the Federal Police are PC, spineless apologists.

Ban them.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47359 At my desk.	Re: first islamic enclave gone Reply #229 - Jul 1^st, 2016 at 12:15pm Quote: Oh, I can answer that, FD. In the sense that they squirreled away government funds into separate bank accounts rather than spending all the money on education. Perhaps they were saving for the future when the government withdrew their money for not spending it on education.
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Mattyfisk

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Re: first islamic enclave gone
Reply #230 - Jul 1^st, 2016 at 12:54pm

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2016 at 12:15pm:

Quote:

Oh, I can answer that, FD. In the sense that they squirreled away government funds into separate bank accounts rather than spending all the money on education.

Perhaps they were saving for the future when the government withdrew their money for not spending it on education.

You've changed your tune. What happened to spending the money on fertilizer and preparing their members for paradise?

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: first islamic enclave gone Reply #231 - Jul 1^st, 2016 at 2:41pm FD, do you think in hindsight it was wrong of you to state as fact that the government funds went to terrorists - or do you stand by the claim? 16 pages, and counting.
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freediver

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Re: first islamic enclave gone
Reply #232 - Jul 1^st, 2016 at 8:59pm

I absolutely stand by my original statement regarding the factuality of said claim. Feel free to quote me.

Why do you want me to find a quote where you previously stated whether you think it is important to find out what the AFIC did with all that money rather than simply stating what you think? Will you now not allow yourself an opinion on Islam's peak representative body in Australia?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: first islamic enclave gone
Reply #233 - Jul 5^th, 2016 at 6:22pm

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2016 at 8:59pm:

I absolutely stand by my original statement regarding the factuality of said claim. Feel free to quote me.

No need to quote it again - its in post# 25 of this thread. I believe I've mentioned it one time before - or 10.

So just so we're clear, you still believe its reasonable to state as fact that the education funds went to terrorists without having a shred of evidence to support that claim? Yes or no.

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2016 at 8:59pm:

Why do you want me to find a quote where you previously stated whether you think it is important to find out what the AFIC did with all that money

Because you assured me I said it. I thought the least you could do is provide some evidence for that. Crazy I know.

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2016 at 8:59pm:

rather than simply stating what you think?

I don't think its important for me to find out what money we know was misused had been misused on exactly. Have I not been clear on that? I mean it is only a 16 page thread of me saying exactly that over and over - which was why I was surprised to see you assuring me I said the opposite. One might be forgiven for thinking you are not taking in a single thing I say.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: first islamic enclave gone
Reply #234 - Jul 5^th, 2016 at 6:43pm

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I don't think its important for me to find out what money we know was misused had been misused on exactly. Have I not been clear on that?

Not exactly. Hence your demands that I quote you, and my requests (yes, 16 pages of them) for you to clarify.

Do you think it might make it easier to prevent a recurrence if you knew who was involved and what their motivation was?

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: first islamic enclave gone Reply #235 - Jul 5^th, 2016 at 8:02pm But we know who was involved and what their motivation was - AFIC, to run at a profit. Not sure why this continually needs to be spelled out for you. Can you confirm you stand by the claim that government school funds went to terrorists - without presenting a shred of evidence to support it? Yes or no.
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freediver

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Re: first islamic enclave gone
Reply #236 - Jul 5^th, 2016 at 8:35pm

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But we know who was involved and what their motivation was - AFIC, to run at a profit.

Every member of AFIC? And no-one from outside AFIC, such as the people now on your school board?

How do you know what their motive was? Do you normally assume religious organisations are run to make a profit? And who ends up with the money?

Quote:

Not sure why this continually needs to be spelled out for you.

Because I am actually asking you to take this a bit further than blurting out 'profit' and expecting people to accept that as an adequate explanation rather than an excuse for covering up fraud.

In what sense are AFIC a for-profit organisation?

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: first islamic enclave gone Reply #237 - Jul 5^th, 2016 at 8:41pm The problem was an organisation in charge of managing a school decided to run it for profit using government funds. A problem that can easily be rectified by ensuring that the organisation is no longer allowed to run the school at a profit. Its really that simple.
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Re: first islamic enclave gone
Reply #238 - Jul 5^th, 2016 at 8:45pm

I don't feel like this is a balanced discussion FD - I am giving you all the answers to your questions, repeatedly, while you get to duck and weave every time I ask you my question. Namely, can you confirm you stand by the claim that government school funds went to terrorists - without presenting a shred of evidence to support it? Yes or no. I feel it goes to the heart of this matter of moral authority over accountability and honesty you (ironically) are placing so much importance on.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: first islamic enclave gone
Reply #239 - Jul 5^th, 2016 at 9:18pm

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The problem was an organisation in charge of managing a school decided to run it for profit using government funds.

Run what for profit? AFIC, or the school? You previously insisted AFIC is a for-profit organisation, and also that this is somehow normal and to be expected for religious organisations.

If it is only the school that was run for profit, it still leaves the question of motive unanswered, as AFIC obviously had some other thing going that they considered to be more important than educating Muslim children, which is a curious thing to do, given that these schools don't seem to have spare cash to keep them going if funding dries up.

Quote:

Its really that simple.

You can attempt to simplify it as much as you want, but it basically means you are turning a blind eye to who was doing it and why, then expecting the Australian public to take you seriously when you say it is reasonable to keep handing over millions fo dollars.

Quote:

I don't feel like this is a balanced discussion FD - I am giving you all the answers to your questions, repeatedly

How about this one - in what sense is AFIC a for-profit organisation?

Quote:

I don't feel like this is a balanced discussion FD - I am giving you all the answers to your questions, repeatedly, while you get to duck and weave every time I ask you my question. Namely, can you confirm you stand by the claim that government school funds went to terrorists - without presenting a shred of evidence to support it? Yes or no. I feel it goes to the heart of this matter of moral authority over accountability and honesty you (ironically) are placing so much importance on.

I am not the one stealing from your children Gandalf, and I think your priorities are a little skewed here.

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