Australian Politics Forum - a mindless collective of treacherous Jews

Aussie

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #285 - Jun 18^th, 2016 at 2:59pm

freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 2:49pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 2:41pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 2:37pm:

Where did Gandalf describe it as a trial?

Where did Gandalf describe it as a finding of guilt?

Where did Gandalf describe it as a mob?

Back on that page where Post # 258 is. You can see there, even you mentioned there being a Trial. Gandalf's full comment was this:

Quote:

It was part of the negotiations while they were under siege. Muhammad offered to judge them under jewish law, and the Quraysh agreed - but insisted that only on the condition that the judgement was administered by their allies - the Bani Aws. Muhammad agreed. So in fact it was a Quraysh demand, which Muhammad agreed to for the sake of a speedy resolution. You of course would know this, because its cited in the same article you just linked. Funny how you didn't mention this little detail.

What is the point of all this, freediver?

Gandalf did not use the word trial, because there was no trial.

Gandalf did not refer to a finding of guilt, because there was none.

Gandalf did not describe it as a mob, because Muhammed was in direct control of the whole thing.

The only thing that was decided was the punishment, and who had to physically do the head lopping. Muhammed did not hand them over to the mob, Pilate style. The 'mob' actually pleaded with Muhammed not to slaughter them all. Muhammed refused their request.

So you say. Link.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47446 At my desk.	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #286 - Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:22pm Ah, you want me to link to Gandalf not saying things now? You must have been a great lawyer.
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Aussie

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #287 - Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:26pm

freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:22pm:

Ah, you want me to link to Gandalf not saying things now? You must have been a great lawyer.

You must be sinking to new lows if you have to have a piss weak crack at my former profession. I want a link which backs this up:

Quote:

The 'mob' actually pleaded with Muhammed not to slaughter them all. Muhammed refused their request.

That is something you said, not Gandalf.

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freediver

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #288 - Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:34pm

From the same wikipedia article

In all accounts, the appointed arbitrator was Sa'd ibn Mua'dh, a leading man among the Aws. During the Battle of the Trench, he had been one of Muhammad's emissaries to the Qurayza (see above)[52] and now was dying from a wound he had received later in the battle.[47][48][49][54] When Sa'd arrived, his fellow Aws pleaded for leniency towards the Qurayza and on his request pledged that they would abide by his decision.[10] He then decreed the sentence according to the Torah (Deuteronomy 20:10-14),[10][59] declaring "the men should be killed, the property divided, and the women and children taken as captives". Muhammad approved of the ruling, calling it similar to God's judgment.[47][48][49][54] Chirāgh ʼAlī[who?] argues that this statement may have referred to "king" or "ruler" rather than God.[60]

Sa'd dismissed the pleas of the Aws, according to Watt because being close to death and concerned with his afterlife, he put what he considered "his duty to God and the Muslim community" before tribal allegiance.[8] Tariq Ramadan argues that Muhammad deviated from his earlier, more lenient treatment of prisoners as this was seen "as sign of weakness if not madness",[53] Peterson concurs that the Muslims wanted to deter future treachery by setting an example with severe punishment.[10] Lings reports that Sa'ad feared that if expelled, the Qurayza would join the Nadir in the fight against the Muslims.[14]

Does that sound like Muhammed relinguishing the Jews to the mob, Pilate-style?

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #289 - Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:37pm Yes.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47446 At my desk.	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #290 - Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:39pm The 'mob' that was pleading for leniency?
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #291 - Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:41pm freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:39pm: The 'mob' that was pleading for leniency? I said it sounds like Muhammed relinguishing the Jews to the mob, Pilate-style?
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Mattyfisk Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 92349 Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #292 - Jun 18^th, 2016 at 4:32pm Aussie wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:26pm: That is something you said, not Gandalf. Ah.
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Mattyfisk Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 92349 Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #293 - Jun 18^th, 2016 at 4:35pm freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:22pm: Ah, you want me to link to Gandalf not saying things now? Oh, FD. This is the sum total of your activity here. It is a jolly world, no?
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freediver

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #294 - Jun 18^th, 2016 at 4:53pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:41pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:39pm:

The 'mob' that was pleading for leniency?

I said it sounds like Muhammed relinguishing the Jews to the mob, Pilate-style?

freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:34pm:

Does that sound like Muhammed relinguishing the Jews to the mob, Pilate-style?

Aussie wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 3:37pm:

Yes.

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 92349 Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #295 - Jun 18^th, 2016 at 5:49pm A question if I may, FD. We'll clear all this up. Is your definition of spreading wacist propaganda when suspects respond to your questions? A simple yes or no will suffice.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #296 - Jun 19^th, 2016 at 10:34am

Aussie wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 2:26pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 2:22pm:

It's on the previous page Aussie. You even responded directly to it - post #258.

This is what he said:

Quote:

.....and the Quraysh agreed - but insisted that only on the condition that the judgement was administered by their allies - the Bani Aws. Muhammad agreed. So in fact it was a Quraysh demand, which Muhammad agreed to for the sake of a speedy resolution

Which is not this:

Quote:

According to Gandalf, all 800 of them deserved to die in the interests of a swift resolution and the establishment of Muhammed's Islamic State.

Good grief Aussie - are you accusing FD of putting words in my mouth?

How could that possibly be??

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #297 - Jun 20^th, 2016 at 9:51am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 19^th, 2016 at 10:34am:

Aussie wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 2:26pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2016 at 2:22pm:

It's on the previous page Aussie. You even responded directly to it - post #258.

This is what he said:

Quote:

.....and the Quraysh agreed - but insisted that only on the condition that the judgement was administered by their allies - the Bani Aws. Muhammad agreed. So in fact it was a Quraysh demand, which Muhammad agreed to for the sake of a speedy resolution

Which is not this:

Quote:

According to Gandalf, all 800 of them deserved to die in the interests of a swift resolution and the establishment of Muhammed's Islamic State.

Good grief Aussie - are you accusing FD of putting words in my mouth?

How could that possibly be??

If this is proven true, G, FD is guilty of spreading wacist propaganda.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #298 - Jun 20^th, 2016 at 10:45am Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 9:51am: If this is proven true, G, FD is guilty of spreading wacist propaganda. Hmmm, now you mention it, who came up with the terms 'treacherous jews', 'cunning jews' and 'mindless collective'?
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Mattyfisk

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #299 - Jun 20^th, 2016 at 10:50am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 10:45am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 9:51am:

If this is proven true, G, FD is guilty of spreading wacist propaganda.

Hmmm, now you mention it, who came up with the terms 'treacherous jews', 'cunning jews' and 'mindless collective'?

I keep asking FD that, but he won't say.

Do you have any ideas, G?

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