Australian Politics Forum - a mindless collective of treacherous Jews

freediver

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a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
May 27^th, 2016 at 6:16pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 23^rd, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on May 23^rd, 2016 at 5:29pm:

FD calls them treacherous because they broke some pact with Muhammed.

Its scheming K - we call them scheming jews.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 23^rd, 2016 at 8:22pm:

freediver wrote on May 23^rd, 2016 at 6:22pm:

I've seen Gandalf use the 'mindless collective' and the treacherous Jews argument

Quite right - you saw me using them without me ever mentioning them. Clever eh?

freediver wrote on May 23^rd, 2016 at 9:30pm:

Every reference to "tribe" made by Gandalf below just happens to be a tribe of Jews.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 5^th, 2013 at 10:27am:

freediver wrote on Dec 5^th, 2013 at 8:26am:

If you think these 800 people acted as some kind of mindless collective

Thats exactly what they were.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 8^th, 2013 at 7:38pm:

Also the treachery of the jews had nothing to do with them refusing to help the muslims.
Simple facts FD.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 5^th, 2013 at 3:11pm:

As I said, there was no real concept of individuality - your personality was literally defined by which tribe you belonged to. And the decisions that govern the tribe are very much decisions that are represented by all the individuals who make up the tribe. Thus there really is no question of collective guilt - no matter how abhorrent we find the term today.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4^th, 2013 at 3:48pm:

Muhammad had been burnt before by granting another traitorous tribe free passage to leave the city - upon which they immediately started plotting against Medina and instigating hostilities.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 4:08pm:

The leaders conspired - yes.

The rest of them had the opportunity to disown their treachery. They declined. So tough titties- off with their heads.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 4:08pm:

What do you think the Banu Qurayza would have done to the muslims if their planned back-stabbing assault on Medina had succeeded?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 6^th, 2013 at 2:05pm:

Like I keep saying, it is reasonable to accuse them of collective guilt, since at any time any individual had the opportunity to disassociate themselves from the decisions made on behalf of the tribe.

Gandalf is one of the good Muslims.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 24^th, 2016 at 10:42am:

The phrase "treacherous jew argument" has obvious racist connotations. FD was obviously well aware of this when he put these words into my mouth.

I went to great lengths to point out their treachery had nothing to do with them being jews. FD deliberately set out to play the race card by using the term "treacherous jew", which he knows perfectly well is a notorious phrase heavily laden with racist overtones. But their treachery is a matter of simple historical fact - they conspired with the people who were attempting to annihilate Medina, in secret, in direct violation of the treaty they signed with Muhammad. But pointing that out is wacist innit.

The best FD can argue is that their treachery was justified, but treachery it was.

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freediver

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #1 - May 27^th, 2016 at 6:16pm

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2016 at 1:25pm:

Quote:

The phrase "treacherous jew argument" has obvious racist connotations. FD was obviously well aware of this when he put these words into my mouth.

Yet it is what you said. Are you saying I have misrepresented what you posted?

Quote:

I went to great lengths to point out their treachery had nothing to do with them being jews.

What about chopping all their heads off. was that something to do with them being Jews?

Quote:

FD deliberately set out to play the race card by using the term "treacherous jew", which he knows perfectly well is a notorious phrase heavily laden with racist overtones.

Kind of makes it hard for you to argue that they were actually treacherous Jews, hey Gandalf? Doesn't stop you trying of course.

Quote:

But their treachery is a matter of simple historical fact - they conspired with the people who were attempting to annihilate Medina, in secret, in direct violation of the treaty they signed with Muhammad. But pointing that out is wacist innit.

You are the one getting hung up on this, not me. I simply pointed out the 'historical fact' that you used the treacherous jews and mindless collective argument to justify slaughtering them. Your insistence that they actually were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews does not make me wrong, even if it does make you look bad. Own it Gandalf. I did not force you to start squirming and backpedaling. I merely provided an accurate description of what you posted.

Simple historical fact - Muhammed got rid of all three large tribes of Jews that posed a political threat to his quest for absolute power in Medina. Despite Muhammed openly threatening and harassing Jews, Muslims go to unusual lengths to blame this all on the Jews. Only some of them display Gandalf's awareness of how backwards it makes them look, but he is still stuck with defending the same story.

Quote:

FD won't even acknowledge the labelling of every single male muslim in the world as a filthy, inbred, retarded psychopath who squats to wee, as racist

Could one argue that it is not racist because it is true? Or does it have to become 'historical fact' first?

Quote:

What she was quoted as saying-“This wasn’t a protest at all, this was just to share joy and peace,” she told BBC at the time, adding that she wanted “to show that things can be different. And that we can live together, not next to each other but with each other.”

Sounds like she's been attending the same spin class as Gandalf.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 7:20am:

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2016 at 8:59pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 24^th, 2016 at 7:38pm:

Just to confirm, you're standing by the claim that the entire male muslim population are inbred and low intellect isn't racist "because it is true"?

What do you reckon is more absurd - to claim its not racist, or that it could actually be true?

Its still not too late to claim the typo defense.

Or you may continue deflecting, its up to you.

OK Gandalf, I was just kidding. It is not true.

Now you tell me you were joking about the mindless collective of treacherous Jews.

Good for you FD. Is it racist? Minus points though for thinking what I said about arabian tribes (all tribes, not just jewish ones) 1400 years ago is even remotely comparable to the outrageously offensive racist slur moses made on the entire muslim population today.

freediver wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 12:10pm:

So it is OK to use racist propaganda to justify the slaughter of Jews, because it happened in the past? And it is not really racist because it is true?

When do you consider that Jews stopped being a mindless collective of traitors?

polite_gandalf wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 1:33pm:

freediver wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 12:10pm:

So it is OK to use racist propaganda to justify the slaughter of Jews,

No that would indeed be racist.

But saying that one particular tribe broke a treaty and calling that 'treachery' is not racist propaganda. Amazing that you could confuse the two scenarios. And this is what you are attempting to claim is no different to calling the entire male muslim population inbred, intellectually retarded psychopaths. Please just reflect on that for a moment.

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freediver

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #2 - May 27^th, 2016 at 6:17pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 1:33pm:

freediver wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 12:10pm:

So it is OK to use racist propaganda to justify the slaughter of Jews,

No that would indeed be racist.

But saying that one particular tribe broke a treaty and calling that 'treachery' is not racist propaganda. Amazing that you could confuse the two scenarios. And this is what you are attempting to claim is no different to calling the entire male muslim population inbred, intellectually retarded psychopaths. Please just reflect on that for a moment.

freediver wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 6:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 1:33pm:

freediver wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 12:10pm:

So it is OK to use racist propaganda to justify the slaughter of Jews,

No that would indeed be racist.

But saying that one particular tribe broke a treaty and calling that 'treachery' is not racist propaganda. Amazing that you could confuse the two scenarios. And this is what you are attempting to claim is no different to calling the entire male muslim population inbred, intellectually retarded psychopaths. Please just reflect on that for a moment.

What about insisting they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews. Would that be racist?

And it wasn't just one tribe was it Gandalf? There were 3 large tribes of Jews that stood in the way of Muhammed's absolute power over Medina. All 3 of them just happened to collectively fall foul of the treaty, despite Muhammed's best efforts at diplomacy.

Were all 3 mindless collectives of treacherous Jews?

BTW, here is an example of the Islamic diplomacy that failed to garner support from the Jewish population for the nascent Islamic State that Gandalf insists they should have supported.

"O Jews, beware lest God bring upon you the vengeance that He brought upon Quraysh and become Muslims. You know that I am a prophet who has been sent - you will find that in your scriptures and God's covenant with you."

The Quraysh were another mindless collective of Jews that Muhammed had already gotten rid of. Gandalf would you expect Jews to support a leader like this?

polite_gandalf wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 7:45pm:

freediver wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 6:32pm:

What about insisting they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews. Would that be racist?

Yes it would FD.

I'm impressed, you've seem to have this racist definition thing down pat - that is when jews are concerned. Still not having much luck on non-jews though. But try and have a go, maybe you'll get the hang of it: for example, would you say that calling the entire male muslim population inbred, retarded and psychotic murderers racist?

polite_gandalf wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 10:50pm:

freediver wrote on May 25^th, 2016 at 9:27pm:

Islam is not a race Gandalf. Can we settle on religious discrimination?

Ah, the good old trusty 'islam is not a race' chestnut.

And yet, you once admitted that Islamophobia could be racism - remember that? Could you give me an example of what racist Islamophobia might look like? I'm fascinated to know if calling the entire male muslim population disgusting inbred, retarded murdering psychopaths doesn't make the grade, what would?

Quote:

Do you think the 800 or so people slaughtered by Muhammed in one day were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews?

No. You really are determined to hang on to the 'treacherous jews' meme aren't you? Now matter how many times I stress that their being jewish had nothing to do with their treachery.

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2016 at 2:01pm:

Quote:

I think it is dumb to say that Muslims are not a race.

If I converted to Islam, would I join a different race?

Quote:

Ah, the good old trusty 'islam is not a race' chestnut.

It's a religion Gandalf. You can't reform a race, can you?

Quote:

And yet, you once admitted that Islamophobia could be racism - remember that?

It could be caused by racism. Your whole argument rests on the absurd leap from there to "they must therefor be the same thing". In fact you have made this argument explicitly - that if you wave your arms in the air and rant about racism and bigotry, they become the same thing.

Quote:

Could you give me an example of what racist Islamophobia might look like? I'm fascinated to know if calling the entire male muslim population disgusting inbred, retarded murdering psychopaths doesn't make the grade, what would?

This is actually sexism. The fact that he specifies all Muslim men means he is not talking about race. If he said the Arab ones were, that would be racist. Let me know if you would like me to repeat myself.

Quote:

No. You really are determined to hang on to the 'treacherous jews' meme aren't you? Now matter how many times I stress that their being jewish had nothing to do with their treachery.

Are you saying it is not racist because it is true?

If I asked you whether Pauline Hanson was a red headed woman, would you say no, on the grounds that he hair colour has nothing to do with her sex?

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freediver

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #3 - May 27^th, 2016 at 6:17pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 26^th, 2016 at 4:26pm:

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2016 at 2:01pm:

The fact that he specifies all Muslim men means he is not talking about race.

Thats good to know, so now we can agree that saying 800 treacherous jewish men deserve to be slaughtered is not racist then. Because its sexist. FD logic.

Your problem is that you seem to be caught between arguing that its outrageously racist on the one hand, and a reasonable and logical thing to say - if coming from my perspective on the other.

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2016 at 2:01pm:

Are you saying it is not racist because it is true?

At the risk of repeating myself - "treacherous jew" is racist. Its about the most racist thing you can think of. Which is why you are so desperate to put the phrase in my mouth.

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2016 at 2:01pm:

If I asked you whether Pauline Hanson was a red headed woman, would you say no, on the grounds that he hair colour has nothing to do with her sex?

Ah yes, thats such a great analogy to "treacherous jews". Good work FD. Smiley

Gandalf, as far as I can tell you are arguing that the Jews slaughtered by Muhammed were in fact a mindless collective of treacherous, traiterous Jews. However, if someone throws your own words back at you, they suddenly acquire "obvious racist connotations". Instead of actually owning your position, you leak these phrases one by one, going to great lengths to make the argument that they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews without using more than one of these descriptors in the same post. You are not only arguing that it is not racist because it is true, you are also trying to argue that because it is true, it is not even what you think.

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Redmond Neck Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 20696 ACT Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #4 - May 27^th, 2016 at 7:43pm Just a matter of interest Freediver! Are you a jew? Not that there is anything wring with that!
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #5 - May 27^th, 2016 at 8:27pm Redmond Neck wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 7:43pm: Just a matter of interest Freediver! Are you a jew? Not that there is anything wring with that! What is your obsession over whether someone is Jewish or not?
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Lionel Edriess Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1932 Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #6 - May 27^th, 2016 at 8:57pm Redmond Neck wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 7:43pm: Just a matter of interest Freediver! Are you a jew? Not that there is anything wrong with that! Indeed!
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 39532	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #7 - May 27^th, 2016 at 9:55pm Lionel Edriess wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 8:57pm: Redmond Neck wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 7:43pm: Just a matter of interest Freediver! Are you a jew? Not that there is anything wrong with that! Indeed! Yet there appears to be something wrong with being a Muslim...
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #8 - May 27^th, 2016 at 10:09pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 9:55pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 8:57pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 7:43pm:

Just a matter of interest Freediver!

Are you a jew?

Not that there is anything wrong with that!

Indeed!

Yet there appears to be something wrong with being a Muslim... Roll Eyes

Might have something to do with the amount of terrorist attacks recently?
Just a thought.

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Brian Ross

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #9 - May 27^th, 2016 at 10:37pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 10:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 9:55pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 8:57pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 7:43pm:

Just a matter of interest Freediver!

Are you a jew?

Not that there is anything wrong with that!

Indeed!

Yet there appears to be something wrong with being a Muslim... Roll Eyes

Might have something to do with the amount of terrorist attacks recently?
Just a thought.

Apears to me to be a case of simple-minded collective guilt be attributed to an entire religious group. Doesn't matter if you're Jewish or Muslim. If it's bad to attribute guilt to all Jews, it must therefore be bad to attribute guilt to all Muslims... Roll Eyes

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Lionel Edriess

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #10 - May 27^th, 2016 at 11:04pm

The number of Muslims killed by Muslims far outweighBrian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 10:37pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 10:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 9:55pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 8:57pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 7:43pm:

Just a matter of interest Freediver!

Are you a jew?

Not that there is anything wrong with that!

Indeed!

Yet there appears to be something wrong with being a Muslim... Roll Eyes

Might have something to do with the amount of terrorist attacks recently?
Just a thought.

Apears to me to be a case of simple-minded collective guilt be attributed to an entire religious group. Doesn't matter if you're Jewish or Muslim. If it's bad to attribute guilt to all Jews, it must therefore be bad to attribute guilt to all Muslims... Roll Eyes

That's a fair comment.

One then has to ask what all the collective guilt is about.

If we consider the actions of both parties, and then break down those actions on a percentage basis, it would appear that Islam (not Muslims) is ahead on points in the atrocity stakes.

While it is true that there exists extremist Jews, by comparison it would appear that there are far more Islamic extremists, wouldn't you say? And that the actions of extremist Islamics (not Muslims), are far more horrific.

The number of Muslims killed by fellow Muslims far outweigh those killed by Jews.

By their actions so shall they be judged.

Jews 100, Islam 100,000.

Last I heard, Islamists were equal opportunity killers, unlike the Jews.

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Brian Ross

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #11 - May 27^th, 2016 at 11:22pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 11:04pm:

The number of Muslims killed by Muslims far outweighBrian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 10:37pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 10:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 9:55pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 8:57pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 7:43pm:

Just a matter of interest Freediver!

Are you a jew?

Not that there is anything wrong with that!

Indeed!

Yet there appears to be something wrong with being a Muslim... Roll Eyes

Might have something to do with the amount of terrorist attacks recently?
Just a thought.

Apears to me to be a case of simple-minded collective guilt be attributed to an entire religious group. Doesn't matter if you're Jewish or Muslim. If it's bad to attribute guilt to all Jews, it must therefore be bad to attribute guilt to all Muslims... Roll Eyes

That's a fair comment.

One then has to ask what all the collective guilt is about.

If we consider the actions of both parties, and then break down those actions on a percentage basis, it would appear that Islam (not Muslims) is ahead on points in the atrocity stakes.

While it is true that there exists extremist Jews, by comparison it would appear that there are far more Islamic extremists, wouldn't you say? And that the actions of extremist Islamics (not Muslims), are far more horrific.

The number of Muslims killed by fellow Muslims far outweigh those killed by Jews.

By their actions so shall they be judged.

Jews 100, Islam 100,000.

Last I heard, Islamists were equal opportunity killers, unlike the Jews.

I am sure the victims of Jewish Terrorism in Europe will be glad to hear that, Lionel.

A crime is a crime and the perpetrators alone are responsible for their crime. Doesn't matter if they are Jews or Muslims who pull the trigger, they are still individually criminal. That is how our justice system works, the last time I checked it. So, if it is bad that Jews get blamed for murdering Christian babies to bake their Passover bread, it's bad that Muslims get blamed for Terrorist attacks in Iraq... Roll Eyes

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Lionel Edriess Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1932 Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #12 - May 27^th, 2016 at 11:33pm Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 11:22pm: ... So, if it is bad that Jews get blamed for murdering Christian babies to bake their Passover bread, .... Now you're being ridiculous! Welcome back, Brian!
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Brian Ross

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #13 - May 27^th, 2016 at 11:45pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 11:33pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 11:22pm:

... So, if it is bad that Jews get blamed for murdering Christian babies to bake their Passover bread, ....

Now you're being ridiculous!

It's a Medieval myth that was created to justify anti-Semitism, Lionel. It was still being perpetuated in the late 20th century in the US. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Welcome back, Brian!

Cheesy

Until I get bored again.

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Lionel Edriess

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #14 - May 28^th, 2016 at 1:31am

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 11:45pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 11:33pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 11:22pm:

... So, if it is bad that Jews get blamed for murdering Christian babies to bake their Passover bread, ....

Now you're being ridiculous!

It's a Medieval myth that was created to justify anti-Semitism, Lionel. It was still being perpetuated in the late 20th century in the US. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Welcome back, Brian!

Cheesy

Until I get bored again.

Bored?

And here's me thinking you were looking for a little excitement.

My bad!

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