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Reading the classics (Read 8893 times)
bogarde73
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Reading the classics
Mar 31st, 2016 at 10:13am
 
Some people may regard the classics as things like Plato or the Odyssey, but I am thinking about 19th century and some 18th century books here.

Australia has its own classics and I have mentioned some in other threads, authors such as Henry Handel Richardson, Miles Franklin, Kylie Tennant. And America has its classics, Mark Twain, Henry James etc. And there are translations of French classics like Balzac & Zola. I like Balzac in particular.

But I still prefer the English classics and one author, apart from Dickens of course, stands out for me and that's Trollope. And from his unbelievable production line I like the Barsetshire series best.
I'm listening to one now, Dr Thorne. I've got the books and read them, but listening is good too.

What I like about the classics is they show you that people essentially don't change much over time. The rules of society might change but really people's behaviour doesn't. There is continuity which has probably been there for hundreds if not thousands of years.
I don't think schools devote enough time to classics. They're difficult and the curriculum is full of bits of everything. And there is the cult of Shakespeare which I think is carried to extremes.
To my mind, kids would derive more understanding from a Dickens or Trollope novel than they would from Shakespeare, which they can't understand anyway.
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #1 - Mar 31st, 2016 at 12:48pm
 
I highly recommend The Earth, by Emile Zola. Other works by him may be dated, but the characterizations in the The Earth are timeless examinations of human frailties. You can bet Hemingway read Zola. The fact that The Earth came out in 1880 something, is astonishing.

But expecting high school kids to get anything out of the Classics is asking an awful lot of them. Listening to a teacher bang on about symbolism can ruin a good story. I never accepted the idea that real writers and artists sit around dream up ways to disquise their meaning, which is what symbolism amounts to, no matter how subtle.
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bogarde73
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #2 - Mar 31st, 2016 at 12:55pm
 
I just don't think the quality of teaching is there. They are looking at the technicalities of literature rather than its soul.
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Frank
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #3 - Mar 31st, 2016 at 7:11pm
 
bogarde73 wrote on Mar 31st, 2016 at 10:13am:
Some people may regard the classics as things like Plato or the Odyssey, but I am thinking about 19th century and some 18th century books here.

Australia has its own classics and I have mentioned some in other threads, authors such as Henry Handel Richardson, Miles Franklin, Kylie Tennant. And America has its classics, Mark Twain, Henry James etc. And there are translations of French classics like Balzac & Zola. I like Balzac in particular.

But I still prefer the English classics and one author, apart from Dickens of course, stands out for me and that's Trollope. And from his unbelievable production line I like the Barsetshire series best.
I'm listening to one now, Dr Thorne. I've got the books and read them, but listening is good too.

What I like about the classics is they show you that people essentially don't change much over time. The rules of society might change but really people's behaviour doesn't. There is continuity which has probably been there for hundreds if not thousands of years.
I don't think schools devote enough time to classics. They're difficult and the curriculum is full of bits of everything. And there is the cult of Shakespeare which I think is carried to extremes.
To my mind, kids would derive more understanding from a Dickens or Trollope novel than they would from Shakespeare, which they can't understand anyway.


The Barchester Chronicles (based on Trollop's The Warden and Barchester Towers) was made into a TV series by the BBC in the 1980s. It's a cracker.

Alan Rickmans as Obediah Slop(e), Sir Humphrey Appleby as the Archdeacon, Donal Pleasance as  the Rev Harding, and the incomparable Geraldine McEwan as Mrs ("the Bishop thinks, and I agreeeeee with him") Proudie.

Love it. Just love it.

True, Trollope reads better than Dickens today. But otherwise I disagree about every other aspect of your post.  Smiley


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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #4 - Mar 31st, 2016 at 8:18pm
 
The only "classic" authors I have read lately have been James Joyce and Lewis Grassic Gibbon.  Slightly later than the other names mentioned earlier.
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #5 - Mar 31st, 2016 at 10:24pm
 
does Lee Child count as a classic?
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #6 - Apr 1st, 2016 at 12:46am
 
John Smith wrote on Mar 31st, 2016 at 10:24pm:
does Lee Child count as a classic?


Somehow I don't think so.
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bogarde73
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #7 - Apr 1st, 2016 at 9:12am
 
Frank wrote on Mar 31st, 2016 at 7:11pm:
bogarde73 wrote on Mar 31st, 2016 at 10:13am:
Some people may regard the classics as things like Plato or the Odyssey, but I am thinking about 19th century and some 18th century books here.

Australia has its own classics and I have mentioned some in other threads, authors such as Henry Handel Richardson, Miles Franklin, Kylie Tennant. And America has its classics, Mark Twain, Henry James etc. And there are translations of French classics like Balzac & Zola. I like Balzac in particular.

But I still prefer the English classics and one author, apart from Dickens of course, stands out for me and that's Trollope. And from his unbelievable production line I like the Barsetshire series best.
I'm listening to one now, Dr Thorne. I've got the books and read them, but listening is good too.

What I like about the classics is they show you that people essentially don't change much over time. The rules of society might change but really people's behaviour doesn't. There is continuity which has probably been there for hundreds if not thousands of years.
I don't think schools devote enough time to classics. They're difficult and the curriculum is full of bits of everything. And there is the cult of Shakespeare which I think is carried to extremes.
To my mind, kids would derive more understanding from a Dickens or Trollope novel than they would from Shakespeare, which they can't understand anyway.


The Barchester Chronicles (based on Trollop's The Warden and Barchester Towers) was made into a TV series by the BBC in the 1980s. It's a cracker.

Alan Rickmans as Obediah Slop(e), Sir Humphrey Appleby as the Archdeacon, Donal Pleasance as  the Rev Harding, and the incomparable Geraldine McEwan as Mrs ("the Bishop thinks, and I agreeeeee with him") Proudie.

Love it. Just love it.

True, Trollope reads better than Dickens today. But otherwise I disagree about every other aspect of your post.  Smiley



What did you disagree with? Most of it was listing authors and why I liked the classics?

I've got that DVD. Slope is excellent, as is the Bishop & his wife. The Warden though seems as if he would be more at home in a horror movie.
I've never understood why they didn't, perhaps they will sometime, make TV series of the other Barsetshire books. They did do all the Pallisers, which is nowhere near as good.
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John Smith
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #8 - Apr 1st, 2016 at 9:29am
 
Wolseley wrote on Apr 1st, 2016 at 12:46am:
John Smith wrote on Mar 31st, 2016 at 10:24pm:
does Lee Child count as a classic?


Somehow I don't think so.


in that case I'm out! Cheesy Cheesy
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bogarde73
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #9 - Apr 1st, 2016 at 9:35am
 
Who the hell is Lee Child?
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #10 - Apr 1st, 2016 at 1:40pm
 
bogarde73 wrote on Apr 1st, 2016 at 9:35am:
Who the hell is Lee Child?


author ... wrote the "Reacher' series .. you probably know best know the movie "Jack Reacher - One Shot'


I was joking when I asked if he's considered a classic
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Frank
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #11 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 12:36pm
 
bogarde73 wrote on Apr 1st, 2016 at 9:12am:
Frank wrote on Mar 31st, 2016 at 7:11pm:
bogarde73 wrote on Mar 31st, 2016 at 10:13am:
Some people may regard the classics as things like Plato or the Odyssey, but I am thinking about 19th century and some 18th century books here.

Australia has its own classics and I have mentioned some in other threads, authors such as Henry Handel Richardson, Miles Franklin, Kylie Tennant. And America has its classics, Mark Twain, Henry James etc. And there are translations of French classics like Balzac & Zola. I like Balzac in particular.

But I still prefer the English classics and one author, apart from Dickens of course, stands out for me and that's Trollope. And from his unbelievable production line I like the Barsetshire series best.
I'm listening to one now, Dr Thorne. I've got the books and read them, but listening is good too.

What I like about the classics is they show you that people essentially don't change much over time. The rules of society might change but really people's behaviour doesn't. There is continuity which has probably been there for hundreds if not thousands of years.
I don't think schools devote enough time to classics. They're difficult and the curriculum is full of bits of everything. And there is the cult of Shakespeare which I think is carried to extremes.
To my mind, kids would derive more understanding from a Dickens or Trollope novel than they would from Shakespeare, which they can't understand anyway.


The Barchester Chronicles (based on Trollop's The Warden and Barchester Towers) was made into a TV series by the BBC in the 1980s. It's a cracker.

Alan Rickmans as Obediah Slop(e), Sir Humphrey Appleby as the Archdeacon, Donal Pleasance as  the Rev Harding, and the incomparable Geraldine McEwan as Mrs ("the Bishop thinks, and I agreeeeee with him") Proudie.

Love it. Just love it.

True, Trollope reads better than Dickens today. But otherwise I disagree about every other aspect of your post.  Smiley



What did you disagree with? Most of it was listing authors and why I liked the classics?




I don't think you can have a cut off for the classics. The 18-19th century classics come out of earlier ones, all the way back to Homer, Gilgamesh, OT.

Shakespeare is much bigger than you seem to give him credit for. The New Criterion's April 2016 issue is dedicated to Shakespeare at 400 years - he died in 2016 ( the same year Cervantes, another giant of literature died).
http://www.newcriterion.com/

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bogarde73
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #12 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 2:17pm
 
No, well you have to understand I'm a hyperbolist by inclination. But I do think Shakespeare has been pushed down the throats of kids too much generation after generation. And it's so time-consuming because it's so difficult to read.
I've read all the history plays (which are the only ones that really interest me) as an adult and I know I could never have appreciated them as a high school kid.
So that's why I say the cult of Shakespeare.

I did say that, as classics, I myself was talking about 18-19th century and I did say other people could say something else.
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bogarde73
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #13 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:12pm
 
I have to admit though I haven't read much pre-18 century.
I've read Tacitus, the Odyssey and maybe a couple of other things but that's it.
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Re: Reading the classics
Reply #14 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:41pm
 
bogarde73 wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 4:12pm:
I have to admit though I haven't read much pre-18 century.


I have read a number of short extracts over the years from Roman works but the only pre 18th century text I can recall reading in its entirety (if you exclude some of Shakespeare's plays) is Eusebius's History of the Church, which was originally written in the late 290s, although the translation I read was a revised version from about 20 years later.
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