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Sir Eoin O Fada Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1339 New England, NSW Gender:	Self defence Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:09pm Why is it a crime in Australia to possess any thing for the purpose of self defence?
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Bobby.

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Re: Self defence
Reply #1 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:16pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:09pm:

Why is it an crime in Australia to possess any thing for the purpose of self defence?

Because of the Bible:

Luke 6:29 KJV

[27] But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

[28] Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

[29] And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other;
and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.

[30] Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

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Yadda

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Re: Self defence
Reply #2 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 1:13pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:09pm:

Why is it an crime in Australia to possess any thing for the purpose of self defence?

Because as an Australian citizen, circa 2016, you and i are not a free man/woman, you and i, do not have the right and freedoms of a free man/woman.

Because in the type of democratic governments [so called], that modern world 'democratic' governments have morphed into/become, .....those governing authorities have decided reserve for themselves [alone] and for their subject servants [alone], the prerogative to use any form of violence, to harm others.

In a modern [so called] democratic state today, it is not lawful for any citizen to have the effective means to direct effective violence against another person.

Even Especially! because such recourse to violence could be employed against a tyrannical regime, OR, against the government and its agents/servants.

Democracy = = [ideally] the government of the people, by the people [i.e. 'the people' always retain the ultimate the authority of form and constitute a governing body].

Modern style of 'Democracy' = = the government of the people, by elected officials [where the effective faux rights of 'citizens' have been neutered, by government regulation or laws].

The government, its executive, and its servants are those who have been given/gifted all effective authority of our society.

Quote:

"Right is only in question between equals, and while the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."

- Thucydides (460-400 B.C.) Greek Historian

The government is strong.

You are weak.

Suck it up.

Google;
no free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms

Google;
a free men retain the right to remove, abolish a tyranny

Google;
free men retain the right to overthrow, abolish a tyranny

Quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

- Declaration of Independence (1776).
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

The Right to Alter or Abolish the Government:
God Makes Nations, Men Make Governments
by Gerald R. Thompson
http://lonang.com/commentaries/foundation/right-to-alter-or-abolish-government/

GOVERNMENT IS THE MERE AGENT OF THE PEOPLE
http://lonang.com/commentaries/foundation/f46b/

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Bobby.

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Re: Self defence
Reply #3 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 1:58pm

If you could prove to the police that you were receiving death threats then
you should be allowed to carry a firearm & receive training in it's use.

Unfortunately if someone is after you then you're a sitting duck.

The law won't help you - proof:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Terrence_and_Christine_Hodson

Quote:

Murders of Terrence and Christine Hodson
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Terrence and Christine Hodson were murdered on May 16, 2004.

In 2004 the murders of Terrence and Christine Hodson were linked to the Melbourne Gangland murders.[1][2] Terrence Hodson had recently agreed to be a police informant, following an arrest for a robbery where his colleagues were suspected to have been two off-duty police officers. The Age reported that a secret document describing him as an informant was circulated around the Melbourne underworld shortly before the murders.

The pair were murdered on May 16, 2004, in what The Age described as "'horrific' gangland murders".[1][2] Christine Hodson is believed to have had no involvement in crime.

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Sir Eoin O Fada Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1339 New England, NSW Gender:	Re: Self defence Reply #4 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 1:58pm Self defence is a right recognized by all Australian Governments it's only the means that are restricted. Is it unlawful to possess any thing for the purpose of self defence against non-human animals?
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95276 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Self defence Reply #5 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:34pm In the case of Terrence and Christine Hodson they shouldn't have become informants without being given the means to defend themselves. They were just stupid criminals although the woman - Christine - was innocent & just a gangsters mole.
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Panther

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Re: Self defence
Reply #6 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 4:55pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 1:13pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:09pm:

Why is it an crime in Australia to possess any thing for the purpose of self defence?

Because as an Australian citizen, circa 2016, you and i are not a free man/woman, you and i, do not have the right and freedoms of a free man/woman.

Because in the type of democratic governments [so called], that modern world 'democratic' governments have morphed into/become, .....those governing authorities have decided reserve for themselves [alone] and for their subject servants [alone], the prerogative to use any form of violence, to harm others.

In a modern [so called] democratic state today, it is not lawful for any citizen to have the effective means to direct effective violence against another person.

Even Especially! because such recourse to violence could be employed against a tyrannical regime, OR, against the government and its agents/servants.

Democracy = = [ideally] the government of the people, by the people [i.e. 'the people' always retain the ultimate the authority of form and constitute a governing body].

Modern style of 'Democracy' = = the government of the people, by elected officials [where the effective faux rights of 'citizens' have been neutered, by government regulation or laws].

The government, its executive, and its servants are those who have been given/gifted all effective authority of our society.

Quote:

"Right is only in question between equals, and while the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."

- Thucydides (460-400 B.C.) Greek Historian

The government is strong.

You are weak.

Suck it up.

Google;
no free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms

Google;
a free men retain the right to remove, abolish a tyranny

Google;
free men retain the right to overthrow, abolish a tyranny

Quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

- Declaration of Independence (1776).
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

The Right to Alter or Abolish the Government:
God Makes Nations, Men Make Governments
by Gerald R. Thompson
http://lonang.com/commentaries/foundation/right-to-alter-or-abolish-government/

GOVERNMENT IS THE MERE AGENT OF THE PEOPLE
http://lonang.com/commentaries/foundation/f46b/

Is it then time to cast off the old, & bring in the new?

Without the means to self-defense, much less to offer up a decent offense, how are we to do this???

The American Revolutionists had the means at least, they had firearms, & refused to turn them over to the low life slimy poms, who knew that those firearms were the only things between the King's total control & Bloody Revolution......or better said, a Free People!!

We have nothing, just a few old thunder-sticks. Only the government has real guns to keep us in our place, so we just have the equivalent of sticks & stones, which may break some of their bones, but their guns will friggin' kill us very, very dead!

Hell, I'll take my chances with government at a ballot box, all I want to do is be able to defend me & my family from those the government & police can't defend me from.....which are almost all the criminals on the street, who can defend themselves against me because they don't obey the law!!!

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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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Bobby.

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Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Self defence
Reply #7 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 4:58pm

Panther wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 4:55pm:

Is it then time to cast off the old, & bring in the new?

Without the means to self-defense, much less to offer up a decent offense, how are we to do this.

The American Revolutionists had the means at least, they had firearms, & refused to turn them over to the low life slimy poms, who knew that those firearms were the only things between the King's total control & Bloody Revolution......or better said, a Free People!!

We have nothing, just a few old thunder-sticks. Only the government has real guns to keep us in our place, so we just have the equivalent of sticks & stones, which may break some of their bones, but their guns will friggin' kill us very, very dead!

But the Yanks have guns & their cities are war zones.
33,000 people are killed by guns every year in the USA -
11 times more than the 911 attacks.

We don't want to be like them.

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Sir Eoin O Fada Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1339 New England, NSW Gender:	Re: Self defence Reply #8 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:17pm Is it unlawful to possess any thing for the purpose of self defence against non-human animals?
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Panther

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the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11106
Gender: male

Re: Self defence
Reply #9 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:20pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 4:58pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 4:55pm:

Is it then time to cast off the old, & bring in the new?

Without the means to self-defense, much less to offer up a decent offense, how are we to do this.

The American Revolutionists had the means at least, they had firearms, & refused to turn them over to the low life slimy poms, who knew that those firearms were the only things between the King's total control & Bloody Revolution......or better said, a Free People!!

We have nothing, just a few old thunder-sticks. Only the government has real guns to keep us in our place, so we just have the equivalent of sticks & stones, which may break some of their bones, but their guns will friggin' kill us very, very dead!

But the Yanks have guns & their cities are war zones.
33,000 people are killed by guns every year in the USA -
11 times more than the 911 attacks.

We don't want to be like them.

We are less than 10% of their population, so say our numbers were about 2,500 a year from all causes including suicide, & criminal upon criminal. Hey, Australians are more level headed & caring of their fellow beings than Americans right? So our numbers should be way lower that that, right? How many Australians are killed by firearms, knives, blunt objects, etc.... for all reasons today?

With all due respect, not knowing the facts first hand, you are wrong.......but I won't even try to "enlighten" you.....we just want a fair go.

........but I will say, just for one thing, over 60+% of all firearm homicides in the US are self-inflicted ....... an act of suicide.....death by their own hand. A crime yes, but not by one human being upon a non-deserving other human being.

Firearms are used in self-defense, to defend life without injury to anyone, somewhere about 2 million times a year in America.....which way exceeds the lives taken using firearms by all means by many, many times. Without firearms for defense, how many of those lives would be needlessly lost rather than saved......how many of those lives are acceptable to you?

All we here in Australia deserve is a fair go.....not complete subjugation to government, who can't & won't defend us.

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« Last Edit: Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:45pm by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 10958 Australia Gender:	Re: Self defence Reply #10 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:50pm Learn something it keeps you fit too.
Back to top	1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax 2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos IP Logged

Panther

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My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11106
Gender: male

Re: Self defence
Reply #11 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 6:12pm

Ajax wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:50pm:

Learn something it keeps you fit too.

Nice, but...... What about 90% of our population that can't find it within themselves to pummel another Ice Charged up human being into leaving them alone, much less into submission? It also put's the victim into harms way....hand to hand, but with a gun in hand the once helpless victim probably causes the same stalker, mugger, robber, coward puncher to run with their tails tucked between their legs....no shots even fired!

I can see Grecco Roman, Judo, etc.... good for 5 to 10% of the population though.

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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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Sir Eoin O Fada Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1339 New England, NSW Gender:	Re: Self defence Reply #12 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 6:38pm I'm afraid that some legal opinion sees possessing a knowledge of martial arts as the possession of a 'thing' and thus illegal if learnt with the intention of self defence. Is it unlawful to possess any thing for the purpose of self defence against non-human animals?
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Yadda

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Re: Self defence
Reply #13 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 7:25pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:17pm:

Is it unlawful to possess any thing for the purpose of self defence against non-human animals?

Eugene,

You have asked that Q. at least three times....

And i can tell you that it is NOT lawful to 'destroy' a brown snake [e.g. Dugite] with a firearm.

Why so ?

Because, even though if the brown snake [e.g. Dugite] bites you, you can die, the brown snake [e.g. Dugite] is a protected native animal.

If you have a poisonous snake on your property, out of town, you are supposed to call a snake wrangler. [....me ?, ....if i find a poisonous snake outside my back door, i just kill it! .....addendum; very carefully]

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95276 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Self defence Reply #14 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:00pm Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:17pm: Is it unlawful to possess any thing for the purpose of self defence against non-human animals? We don't have any wild lions here in Australia so what are you talking about?
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