Australian Politics Forum - The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase

crocodile

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #120 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 2:50pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 10:30pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 7:29pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 6:25pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 3:36pm:

Unfortunately it's worse than that. Many are under the mistaken belief that PAYE employees pay tax on gross earnings. That is untrue. There are a host of allowable deductions available to those that have expenses incurred in the course of earning an income.

PAYE's have a tax free threshold, corporations do not. Despite many threads on the subject many can't accept that a tax on retained earnings is a tax on future labour productivity and therefore a tax on real wages growth. I'm dumbfounded.

Another topic is talking about rogue polls but around here a rogue crocodile may be more relevant.

Rogue - One who is playfully mischievous; a scamp.
I've had worse but the content is true.

So we tax them on their net income at the same rates as PAYE earners? Good-oh!

Or is the logic that we simply not tax companies at all since to do so means there will be no future wages preserved, or at the very least much more will be??

Jayzuz - some of you educated economist types confuse yourselves....

Theory ain't everything......

Apparently ignorance is everything after all. FFS, read and understand the action of deadweight losses. Corporate tax falls most heavily on the wage earner rather than the owner of the capital. One day you may understand this axiom. Until then, keep shooting the workers in the foot.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase Reply #121 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 3:41pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 6:50pm: companies no way pay 40% tax on gross earnings.... Indeed. The actual figure is roughly 3%.
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Bobby.

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #122 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 6:50pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 7:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 6:36pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 6:38am:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 5:52am:

The national Govt. debt is $439 billion

http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

from memory it was less than half that under Labor.

Apologise to the readers.

The debt clock is for the alarmists. They haven't quite figured out the difference between gross and net debt.

$439 billion

Says it all really.

Yes - Abbott & Turnbull are the big spenders.

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crocodile Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6683 Gender:	Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase Reply #123 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 8:18pm Bam wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 3:41pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 6:50pm: companies no way pay 40% tax on gross earnings.... Indeed. The actual figure is roughly 3%. So what. Gross earnings isn't gross profit.
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crocodile

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #124 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 8:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 6:50pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 7:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 6:36pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 6:38am:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 5:52am:

The national Govt. debt is $439 billion

http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

from memory it was less than half that under Labor.

Apologise to the readers.

The debt clock is for the alarmists. They haven't quite figured out the difference between gross and net debt.

$439 billion

Says it all really.

Yes - Abbott & Turnbull are the big spenders.

They all are. You're still relying the lack of detail from the debt clock. Quoting gross debt figures is about as useful as the bottom half of a mermaid. Now be a good muppet and subtract the capital inflows and you may be declared sane after all.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 117272 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase Reply #125 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 8:35pm The Debt clock goes up about $1,000 per second: http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/
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Jovial Monk

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #126 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 8:57pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 9:36am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 8:41am:

That graph is garbage! The GST hits workers when they go out and consume.

With overseas–owned companies the profit flows out the country (my god how it flows out!) And so on, garbage graph!

Do you have anything to substantiate that the deadweight losses are not as shown. If so, please elaborate. If not then piss off.

It is a garbage graph. Even you must have heard about those multinationals not paying tax here? GST not hit workers? It does when they go out and buy stuff. The graph is absolute crap.

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crocodile

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #127 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 9:24pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 8:57pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 9:36am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 8:41am:

That graph is garbage! The GST hits workers when they go out and consume.

With overseas–owned companies the profit flows out the country (my god how it flows out!) And so on, garbage graph!

Do you have anything to substantiate that the deadweight losses are not as shown. If so, please elaborate. If not then piss off.

It is a garbage graph. Even you must have heard about those multinationals not paying tax here? GST not hit workers? It does when they go out and buy stuff. The graph is absolute crap.

I'll take that as No, I have nothing to substantiate that claim.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase Reply #128 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 9:28pm Ahhh...here is the GST topic. Ok. Quick question. Is there anyone here who is happy with the proposed changes to the GST? If so, why?
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Its time

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #129 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 9:46pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 9:28pm:

Ahhh...here is the GST topic.

Ok.

Quick question.

Is there anyone here who is happy with the proposed changes to the GST? If so, why?

You should be asking why anybody would be happy with a last ditch attempt at raising some revenue after abolishing a revenue stream in Carbon pricing that had 4.5billion worth of new renewable projects locked and loaded ready to go with a heap more density than the Libs model of trying to flog a dead as the stalking policy horsee in mining the libs have been trying to sell the public for 3 years .

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Bam

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #130 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 9:52pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 8:18pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 3:41pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 6:50pm:

companies no way pay 40% tax on gross earnings....

Indeed. The actual figure is roughly 3%.

So what. Gross earnings isn't gross profit.

Yet salary and wage earners are taxed on gross earnings (deductions don't reduce it very much for most people) ... and are then taxed again when they pay the GST using after-tax income. Double taxation.

Yet companies pay 3% of their gross in tax on average and whine as if that's huge. It's not, not when compared to their wage-earning serfs.

It would be a very different picture if salary and wage earners could be taxed on their profits as well, after deducting cost of housing, cost of transport to and from work, various bills, etc. Taxing company profit is like only taxing disposable income for salary and wage earners.

And this government wants to shift the burden of taxation even further onto salary and wage earners. What a joke.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #131 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 9:54pm

Its time wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 9:46pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 9:28pm:

Ahhh...here is the GST topic.

Ok.

Quick question.

Is there anyone here who is happy with the proposed changes to the GST? If so, why?

You should be asking why anybody would be happy with a last ditch attempt at raising some revenue after abolishing a revenue stream in Carbon pricing that had 4.5billion worth of new renewable projects locked and loaded ready to go with a heap more density than the Libs model of trying to flog a dead as the stalking policy horsee in mining the libs have been trying to sell the public for 3 years .

Oh sigh.

I did say .... A QUICK QUESTION.

YOURS IS A FREAKING EPIC.

(Some interesting points made though).

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #132 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 10:06pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 9:24pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 8:57pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 9:36am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 8:41am:

That graph is garbage! The GST hits workers when they go out and consume.

With overseas–owned companies the profit flows out the country (my god how it flows out!) And so on, garbage graph!

Do you have anything to substantiate that the deadweight losses are not as shown. If so, please elaborate. If not then piss off.

It is a garbage graph. Even you must have heard about those multinationals not paying tax here? GST not hit workers? It does when they go out and buy stuff. The graph is absolute crap.

I'll take that as No, I have nothing to substantiate that claim.

I will take that as, I can’t refute it.

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Bam

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #133 - Feb 4^th, 2016 at 10:10pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 9:28pm:

Ahhh...here is the GST topic.

Ok.

Quick question.

Is there anyone here who is happy with the proposed changes to the GST? If so, why?

No, because many other options for reining in the defeicit have not been considered.

* Multinational tax avoidance - find and close various loopholes
* Capital gains tax concessions - axe the concession
* Superannuation tax concessions - reduce them (Implement the Greens' policy here)
* Negative gearing - axe it
* Private health insurance rebate - axe it
* Diesel subsidy for the mining industry - axe it

If these were done (plus one or two more not listed), $50 billion or more could be raised. If so, the deficit would become a surplus and there would be no need to hike the GST. Australian businesses would be more competitive because they would be competing more fairly with tax-dodging multinationals, services could be fully funded, and funds would be made available to offer tax cuts as well.

And the tax cuts I would implement:
* Adjust tax brackets for bracket creep
* Cut the 32.5 cent tax bracket to 30 cents
* Index tax brackets to inflation, and so abolish bracket creep
* If businesses forego various corporate tax breaks, tax concessions and subsidies, these funds should be returned as a cut to the corporate tax rate with some retained for budget balancing. A corporate tax rate of 25% is achievable without making other people pay for it.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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crocodile

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #134 - Feb 5^th, 2016 at 7:07am

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 10:06pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 9:24pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 8:57pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 9:36am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 8:41am:

That graph is garbage! The GST hits workers when they go out and consume.

With overseas–owned companies the profit flows out the country (my god how it flows out!) And so on, garbage graph!

Do you have anything to substantiate that the deadweight losses are not as shown. If so, please elaborate. If not then piss off.

It is a garbage graph. Even you must have heard about those multinationals not paying tax here? GST not hit workers? It does when they go out and buy stuff. The graph is absolute crap.

I'll take that as No, I have nothing to substantiate that claim.

I will take that as, I can’t refute it.

You're the one that made the specious claim Sunny Boy. Put up or shut up.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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