Australian Politics Forum - Time to overhaul political donations

Dnarever

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #150 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:19am

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:19am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:06am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 3:50pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 3:39pm:

I keep telling you the problems with the idea and being the dim-witted souls that you are, you just march on regardless with nary a thought for the practical problems.

That is why no one in authority ever asks your opinions on anything.

Do you think this is the first time this topic has been discussed? The 'problems' you whinge about have been dealt with. Simple solutions have been offered. You want to find out what they were go searching for them. No one here needs to repeat themselves just because you're incapable of independent thought.

Solutions that you dont have because the last time it was discussed, I was here. And no one even bothered to try and answer the problems. That is because you are all so damnably partisan and foolish that no question can even be entertained, never mind answered

Perhaps the reason this stupid idea has never been seriously floated is because it has serious flaws that cannot be addressed.

actually, the last time this was discussed, you weren't here .... longy was. Grin

There is nothing partisan about banning political donations. Your problem is your head is so far up your arse, you don't understand what's written in front of you.

You are not using the conservative definition of partisan ?

To them you are either with them or against them. The non partisan position is not with then so logically it must be counted as being against them.

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #151 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:19am

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:13am:

Is this your tacit admission that there is no solution to the problems I identified?

I thought he was asking you for your ideas .... by the way, burying your head in the sand is not a solution

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:13am:

How about at least admitting they exist and either proposing solutions or dumping the idea

you haven't found anything. The problems you suggested have been covered multiple times. You want the answers, look.

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #152 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:20am

I dont have a major problem with individuals and companies (including unions) donating to the political party of their choice. The laws covering disclosure are also fine as they stand. Why should any individual be precluded from supporting the political party of their choice? And that is what this draconian idea seeks to do. In its lofty goal of trying to remove the peddling of influence it forgets that the democratic process is essentially that - influence of the ordinary people. In this case this influence is demonstrated by donations. A person supports their political beliefs via financial support. Would you ban volunteer workers who 'donate' their time and instead use paid public servants instead?

There are not many examples of donors receiving undue influence in Australia. Certainly there are some but no system will ever rid us of that. Donations will go underground where true corruption exists.

The idea as proposed in the OP is fatally flawed.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Time to overhaul political donations Reply #153 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:22am mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:20am: . The laws covering disclosure are also fine as they stand. bullsh1t .... work around are way to easy ... if it wasn't on all the front pages, who would even know what the 'North Sydney Forum' is apart from those that have been a party to it?
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mariacostel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7344 Sydney Gender:	Re: Time to overhaul political donations Reply #154 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:24am The libs get more donations than Labor. That is all this is about.
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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #155 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:25am

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:22am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:20am:

. The laws covering disclosure are also fine as they stand.

bullsh1t .... work around are way to easy ... if it wasn't on all the front pages, who would even know what the 'North Sydney Forum' is apart from those that have been a party to it?

"disclosure" isnt about telling you everything you need to know. It lists WHO. If you are even remotely interested, you can find out the rest of the details yourself. Surely that is obvious.

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #156 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:27am

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:24am:

The libs get more donations than Labor. That is all this is about.

it has nothing to do with who gets more. You yourself said, if the unions were banned from donating, labor would be finished .... why then do you think calling for a ban on donations is beneficial to labor? Either you're an idiot, or you're a liar

personally I think you're both.

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #157 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:28am

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:25am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:22am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:20am:

. The laws covering disclosure are also fine as they stand.

bullsh1t .... work around are way to easy ... if it wasn't on all the front pages, who would even know what the 'North Sydney Forum' is apart from those that have been a party to it?

"disclosure" isnt about telling you everything you need to know. It lists WHO. If you are even remotely interested, you can find out the rest of the details yourself. Surely that is obvious.

yeah .... cause everyone has the time to check our who or what every single obscure organisation is Cheesy

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Dnarever

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #158 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:31am

mariacostel wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 8:20am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 12:56am:

It was held in the Canberra landmark, Kingston Hotel. Inside the hotel were

36 ALP delegates

deciding what Labor Party policies the looming election was to be fought on.
Outside the hotel, waiting in the Canberran cold, stood the ALP leader Arthur Calwell and his deputy Gough Whitlam.
Neither were delegates to the Conference and could take no decisive part.
Alan, ever the astute reporter, awoke his photographer mate, Vladimir Paral, and that morning the iconic pics were blazened across the pages of the Tele.
The ALP didn't win that election. If they had won, the Calwell/Whitlam Labor Government would have followed the doctrine of

36 unelected, unknown unionists.

How did 36 ALP delegates turn into 36 unknown Unionists? Grin

What were these journalists smoking at the time?

Longmania going down at four o'clock... in flames... no chutes... someone'll be writing letters to parents....

Has it ever occurred to you that the reporters AT THE TIME might have known just a tad more than you do now 53 years later? Why dont you research all the articles complaining about the statement. Hint: there weren't any. Nobody disputed the facts, not even the ALP.

has it occurred to you that the Telegraph may have the same problems today as it had 53 years ago ?

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Dnarever

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #159 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:33am

mariacostel wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 8:21am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 8:02am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 12:56am:

It was held in the Canberra landmark, Kingston Hotel. Inside the hotel were

36 ALP delegates

deciding what Labor Party policies the looming election was to be fought on.
Outside the hotel, waiting in the Canberran cold, stood the ALP leader Arthur Calwell and his deputy Gough Whitlam.
Neither were delegates to the Conference and could take no decisive part.
Alan, ever the astute reporter, awoke his photographer mate, Vladimir Paral, and that morning the iconic pics were blazened across the pages of the Tele.
The ALP didn't win that election. If they had won, the Calwell/Whitlam Labor Government would have followed the doctrine of

36 unelected, unknown unionists.

How did 36 ALP delegates turn into 36 unknown Unionists? Grin

What were these journalists smoking at the time?

Longmania going down at four o'clock... in flames... no chutes... someone'll be writing letters to parents....

You have to wonder about them when the best they can do is to re run a 1963 election ploy.

DNA, are you one of those crazy-lefties that chooses to say that this event didn't happen? or is your integrity enough to accept that it did happen exactly as reported?

I would think that you have managed to leave out a rather large grey area from your options.

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #160 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:38am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:31am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 8:20am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 12:56am:

It was held in the Canberra landmark, Kingston Hotel. Inside the hotel were

36 ALP delegates

deciding what Labor Party policies the looming election was to be fought on.
Outside the hotel, waiting in the Canberran cold, stood the ALP leader Arthur Calwell and his deputy Gough Whitlam.
Neither were delegates to the Conference and could take no decisive part.
Alan, ever the astute reporter, awoke his photographer mate, Vladimir Paral, and that morning the iconic pics were blazened across the pages of the Tele.
The ALP didn't win that election. If they had won, the Calwell/Whitlam Labor Government would have followed the doctrine of

36 unelected, unknown unionists.

How did 36 ALP delegates turn into 36 unknown Unionists? Grin

What were these journalists smoking at the time?

Longmania going down at four o'clock... in flames... no chutes... someone'll be writing letters to parents....

Has it ever occurred to you that the reporters AT THE TIME might have known just a tad more than you do now 53 years later? Why dont you research all the articles complaining about the statement. Hint: there weren't any. Nobody disputed the facts, not even the ALP.

has it occurred to you that the Telegraph may have the same problems today as it had 53 years ago ?

And there you have it. The thinking process of the leftard in all its ignominy. No story can possibly be true if it is not positive to the ALP.

The Faceless Men story is a huge part of our political history. No one discounts it, largely because even the ALP and the actual participants admit it. But no. That is not enough. It has to be a lie because it is an Inconvenient Truth.

Do you see now why I treat you with such disdain? You deserve it because for you, facts and truth are subject entirely to your political beliefs. Nothing you say on any topic has value because it is just your version of life from a parallel universe, not ours.

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #161 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:40am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:33am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 8:21am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 8:02am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 12:56am:

It was held in the Canberra landmark, Kingston Hotel. Inside the hotel were

36 ALP delegates

deciding what Labor Party policies the looming election was to be fought on.
Outside the hotel, waiting in the Canberran cold, stood the ALP leader Arthur Calwell and his deputy Gough Whitlam.
Neither were delegates to the Conference and could take no decisive part.
Alan, ever the astute reporter, awoke his photographer mate, Vladimir Paral, and that morning the iconic pics were blazened across the pages of the Tele.
The ALP didn't win that election. If they had won, the Calwell/Whitlam Labor Government would have followed the doctrine of

36 unelected, unknown unionists.

How did 36 ALP delegates turn into 36 unknown Unionists? Grin

What were these journalists smoking at the time?

Longmania going down at four o'clock... in flames... no chutes... someone'll be writing letters to parents....

You have to wonder about them when the best they can do is to re run a 1963 election ploy.

DNA, are you one of those crazy-lefties that chooses to say that this event didn't happen? or is your integrity enough to accept that it did happen exactly as reported?

I would think that you have managed to leave out a rather large grey area from your options.

No. The facts are very well understood and historically documented. You just can't handle the truth. Nor can Bam.

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #162 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:42am

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:38am:

No one discounts it, largely because even the ALP and the actual participants admit it.

you keep claiming that but you've yet to show any evidence of it. You were asked to prove that the men in the meeting were union reps, but the article you posted itself said they were labor party reps.

You're going to need more than one obscure newspaper article if you hope to have any credibility. Afterall, It's not like newspapers ever lie or exaggerate Cheesy

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Dnarever

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #163 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:44am

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:25am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:22am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:20am:

. The laws covering disclosure are also fine as they stand.

bullsh1t .... work around are way to easy ... if it wasn't on all the front pages, who would even know what the 'North Sydney Forum' is apart from those that have been a party to it?

"disclosure" isnt about telling you everything you need to know. It lists WHO. If you are even remotely interested, you can find out the rest of the details yourself. Surely that is obvious.

"disclosure" isnt about telling you everything you need to know.

Full disclosure is meant to be - otherwise it is pointless, incomplete disclosure only means leaving loop holes that can be abused.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 89867 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Time to overhaul political donations Reply #164 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:45am Mania is caught in a trap of fact - that means the only way out is to continue to deny that ALP delegates are not necessarily Union delegates.... all the while denying that the majority of the Liberal 'caucus' are also unelected..... You can't help some people out of their bind.....
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