Australian Politics Forum - Greens' new stolen generation policy

mariacostel

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #30 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:24am

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:00am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 9:23am:

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 9:01am:

Curiously enough, what solutions do people have on offer to "protect children" from abuse other than removal of children from the abusers?

It should be noted that I do not agree with or support Greens notions of abuse worthy of removing children though. We all suffer from abuse and or neglect at some level. The real problems are when the abuse/neglect is chronic.

Whilst I (in part at least) agree with the sentiment that Religious Education (especially if it is forced) is tantamount to child abuse. Like I said, in part because that is my opinion - however, as difficult as this might be for some to grasp, I think it apt to have some level of respect for people's choice about their beliefs...

So, there is an example where removal of children from families simply for practicing their faith would be extreme. Of course, then we have the conundrum of, what if the particular religious practice is (for want of a better term) more abusive or perhaps chronic?

So, what is the solution, do we as a society remove children for their own protection when we recognise a need to? Do we leave children in harm's way (so to avoid the new stolen generation)?

Who should be the arbitrator of such decisions? Clearly, our child protection agencies struggle to get it right, don't they?

RE the highlighted... you oppose VOLUNTARY religious education while in your preceding post you bemoaned censorship and abuse of freedom of speech. Wow... Hypocrisy is rarely so obvious.

Please do not be disreputable, I have not said I oppose either voluntary or forced religious education, I have said I agree that it can be (and often is child abuse by definition). I also quite clearly pointed out that it is not chronic, as such, I quite freely support people's right to their beliefs...

Unlike yourself who demonstrably called for a ban of a poster who you do not agree with, I am not calling for a ban on religious education, it wouldn't help.

In my opinion we need to simply get wise enough as a species to not require the mythic crutch as an excuse for all our woes.

BIIIIIG difference, of course, I have no expectation that you (or many others) exercise the cognitive function to recognise or acknowledge that.

I will grant you the possibility that you did not mean what your words implied but you said this:

"Whilst I (in part at least) agree with the sentiment that Religious Education (especially if it is forced) is tantamount to child abuse."

You imply that ANY religious education is child abuse. How do I not consider that a breach of freedom of speech?

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy Reply #31 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:29am Respect freediver You and I crossed swords more than once on this board But calling out Greens like this deserves kudos Greens are extremist socialists They use demonising techniques to get their point across Denialist Sexist Misogynist Racist Apologist (study of apes ) Capitalist
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mariacostel

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #32 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:35am

Maqqa wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Respect freediver

You and I crossed swords more than once on this board

But calling out Greens like this deserves kudos

Greens are extremist socialists

They use demonising techniques to get their point across

Denialist
Sexist
Misogynist
Racist
Apologist (study of apes Cheesy

)
Capitalist

It would be hard not to. Greens makes truly ludicrous claims and never provides even a snippet of credible support. Every post is simply about being gay, green and vegan - and alone.

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BigOl64

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #33 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:38am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 9:21am:

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 8:54am:

cods wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 8:50am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 8:38am:

Less talk, more action. Combine his threads or delete them. Give him a ban. And while you are at it, how about getting Crook to stop the near daily whine about penalty rates in yet another new thread.

if only ozpol was democratic.....these people would never ever be allowed to start a thread....

they are TOXIC BORING CAUGHT IN A REVOLVING DOOR OF HATE and bitterness... GREEN ITS ALL LIES IN HIS HEAD... hes a real wonder to be avoided at all cost..

crook its all C&P..he never comments on any other thread bar his own WHINGEING ONES...he is paid probably by the cfmeu.

they are all negative all PANIC I hate that..

this is the best country in the world and all they do is PULL IT DOWN..

Wow, two posts that clearly support free speech censorship, which I have to say is quite surprising disappointing.

Ge over yourself. Free speech comes with responsibility. Flooding the forums with the same endless crap day in day out is not responsibility.

We don't have freedom of speech in this country, so what ever the government tells you that you can say, you at least have the right to say it over and over again.

All adult responsibility has been taken over by the nanny state, so what ever is left is a free for all.

Angry

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Phemanderac

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #34 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:39am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:24am:

I will grant you the possibility that you did not mean what your words implied but you said this:

"Whilst I (in part at least) agree with the sentiment that Religious Education (especially if it is forced) is tantamount to child abuse."

My words implied nothing, further, to "grant" me this is pure arrogance.

My words were very clear indeed, further, I wrote a wee bit more than that as you well know and, as such, taken in its full context my comment is quite clearly expressed, no need to think something extra is implied, that is just being manipulative and dishonest.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:24am:

You imply that ANY religious education is child abuse. How do I not consider that a breach of freedom of speech?

Nope I don't imply it, I state very clearly that I agree that it is child abuse, I will go further and add, on many levels...

Of course, once again, if you take the entire comment, it is very clearly evident that I am not calling for bans and, in point of fact, say quite bluntly and clearly that I still hold respect for people's rights to their beliefs... Yet curiously enough, you frame that as me attacking their freedom of speech. If anything it questions freedom of religion, and even that is a very thin possibility.

I know what I said, further I am very clear about what my opinion means...

The salient point, I have no desire, expectation or urge to see organised religion banned... That is one mighty big difference.

So, that's how you avoid this mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:24am:

do I not consider that a breach of freedom of speech?

It's called sticking to the facts.

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____

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #35 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:40am

Maqqa wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Respect freediver

You and I crossed swords more than once on this board

But calling out Greens like this deserves kudos

Greens are extremist socialists

They use demonising techniques to get their point across

Denialist
Sexist
Misogynist
Racist
Apologist (study of apes Cheesy

)
Capitalist

Once again you are confused.

Freediver is making a personal attck on me, not the Greens.

Try and keep up.

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____

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #36 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:48am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:35am:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Respect freediver

You and I crossed swords more than once on this board

But calling out Greens like this deserves kudos

Greens are extremist socialists

They use demonising techniques to get their point across

Denialist
Sexist
Misogynist
Racist
Apologist (study of apes Cheesy

)
Capitalist

It would be hard not to. Greens makes truly ludicrous claims and never provides even a snippet of credible support. Every post is simply about being gay, green and vegan - and alone.

Come on sweetie, Seperate your vile from fact. Just because you are being smacked around the board for your outrageous claims about eye witnesses at the birth of someone called jesus, following him around and then being around long after his death ... then writing in fluent greek.
Careful when claiming other's don't supply evidence.

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« Last Edit: Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:55am by ____ »

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mariacostel

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #37 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:02pm

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:39am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:24am:

I will grant you the possibility that you did not mean what your words implied but you said this:

"Whilst I (in part at least) agree with the sentiment that Religious Education (especially if it is forced) is tantamount to child abuse."

My words implied nothing, further, to "grant" me this is pure arrogance.

My words were very clear indeed, further, I wrote a wee bit more than that as you well know and, as such, taken in its full context my comment is quite clearly expressed, no need to think something extra is implied, that is just being manipulative and dishonest.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:24am:

You imply that ANY religious education is child abuse. How do I not consider that a breach of freedom of speech?

Nope I don't imply it, I state very clearly that I agree that it is child abuse, I will go further and add, on many levels...

Of course, once again, if you take the entire comment, it is very clearly evident that I am not calling for bans and, in point of fact, say quite bluntly and clearly that I still hold respect for people's rights to their beliefs... Yet curiously enough, you frame that as me attacking their freedom of speech. If anything it questions freedom of religion, and even that is a very thin possibility.

I know what I said, further I am very clear about what my opinion means...

The salient point, I have no desire, expectation or urge to see organised religion banned... That is one mighty big difference.

So, that's how you avoid this mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:24am:

do I not consider that a breach of freedom of speech?

It's called sticking to the facts.

I will no longer 'arrogantly' give you the benefit of the doubt since you so ungraciously declined the offer. If you had half a brain, you would have read that I was asking you to explain and expand your position, but instead you chose the imbecile's approach of attack.

When child abuse is treated as a worse crime than murder - as it often is for some people - claiming that religious education is child abuse is very close to the line of seeking to squash freedom of speech. It is however dead-centre in rejection of freedom of religion (another right).

But I will not ever bother again asking you to explain something you said. I will just take a page from your low-bred manual of debate and simply 'attack'.

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mariacostel

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #38 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:04pm

____ wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:40am:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Respect freediver

You and I crossed swords more than once on this board

But calling out Greens like this deserves kudos

Greens are extremist socialists

They use demonising techniques to get their point across

Denialist
Sexist
Misogynist
Racist
Apologist (study of apes Cheesy

)
Capitalist

Once again you are confused.

Freediver is making a personal attck on me, not the Greens.

Try and keep up.

He is pointing out your ignorance, stupidity, bias and rather intolerant attitude. You should be gracious that he is only pointing out your better attributes. He could also mention you extremely low IQ, worse education and blatant racism and sexism.

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____

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #39 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:14pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:04pm:

____ wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:40am:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Respect freediver

You and I crossed swords more than once on this board

But calling out Greens like this deserves kudos

Greens are extremist socialists

They use demonising techniques to get their point across

Denialist
Sexist
Misogynist
Racist
Apologist (study of apes Cheesy

)
Capitalist

Once again you are confused.

Freediver is making a personal attck on me, not the Greens.

Try and keep up.

He is pointing out your ignorance, stupidity, bias and rather intolerant attitude. You should be gracious that he is only pointing out your better attributes. He could also mention you extremely low IQ, worse education and blatant racism and sexism.

Now now Maria. You nearly confused yourself to Longweekend69er.
Should you be chatting here or searching for the elusive eye witness to backup your statement on the other thread ... currently a maria bloodbath.

Quote:

Well now you are just seeking to be dense - and succeeding. The proof of Jesus' existence is enormous and is accepted as fact by historians. There are plenty of eye-witness accounts.

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mariacostel

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #40 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:22pm

____ wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:14pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:04pm:

____ wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:40am:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Respect freediver

You and I crossed swords more than once on this board

But calling out Greens like this deserves kudos

Greens are extremist socialists

They use demonising techniques to get their point across

Denialist
Sexist
Misogynist
Racist
Apologist (study of apes Cheesy

)
Capitalist

Once again you are confused.

Freediver is making a personal attck on me, not the Greens.

Try and keep up.

He is pointing out your ignorance, stupidity, bias and rather intolerant attitude. You should be gracious that he is only pointing out your better attributes. He could also mention you extremely low IQ, worse education and blatant racism and sexism.

Now now Maria. You nearly confused yourself to Longweekend69er.
Should you be chatting here or searching for the elusive eye witness to backup your statement on the other thread ... currently a maria bloodbath.

Quote:

Well now you are just seeking to be dense - and succeeding. The proof of Jesus' existence is enormous and is accepted as fact by historians. There are plenty of eye-witness accounts.

The debating deflection is the battlefield equivalent of the surrender.

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____

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #41 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:29pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:22pm:

____ wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:14pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:04pm:

____ wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:40am:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Respect freediver

You and I crossed swords more than once on this board

But calling out Greens like this deserves kudos

Greens are extremist socialists

They use demonising techniques to get their point across

Denialist
Sexist
Misogynist
Racist
Apologist (study of apes Cheesy

)
Capitalist

Once again you are confused.

Freediver is making a personal attck on me, not the Greens.

Try and keep up.

He is pointing out your ignorance, stupidity, bias and rather intolerant attitude. You should be gracious that he is only pointing out your better attributes. He could also mention you extremely low IQ, worse education and blatant racism and sexism.

Now now Maria. You nearly confused yourself to Longweekend69er.
Should you be chatting here or searching for the elusive eye witness to backup your statement on the other thread ... currently a maria bloodbath.

Quote:

Well now you are just seeking to be dense - and succeeding. The proof of Jesus' existence is enormous and is accepted as fact by historians. There are plenty of eye-witness accounts.

The debating deflection is the battlefield equivalent of the surrender.

I gotta quote that on the other thread.
Such fun !!!

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cods

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #42 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:32pm

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:02am:

cods wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 9:12am:

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 9:01am:

Curiously enough, what solutions do people have on offer to "protect children" from abuse other than removal of children from the abusers?

It should be noted that I do not agree with or support Greens notions of abuse worthy of removing children though. We all suffer from abuse and or neglect at some level. The real problems are when the abuse/neglect is chronic.

Whilst I (in part at least) agree with the sentiment that Religious Education (especially if it is forced) is tantamount to child abuse. Like I said, in part because that is my opinion - however, as difficult as this might be for some to grasp, I think it apt to have some level of respect for people's choice about their beliefs...

So, there is an example where removal of children from families simply for practicing their faith would be extreme. Of course, then we have the conundrum of, what if the particular religious practice is (for want of a better term) more abusive or perhaps chronic?

So, what is the solution, do we as a society remove children for their own protection when we recognise a need to? Do we leave children in harm's way (so to avoid the new stolen generation)?

Who should be the arbitrator of such decisions? Clearly, our child protection agencies struggle to get it right, don't they?

if you care to check in with other threads on child murder or even domestic violence you will see most of us WHO CARE are trying to do just that..

that is............find solutions that work...

easy peasy to ask questions that make it look like you have this all under control..

how about a few answers..

tell us what you think would fix all these problems..

now that would be interesting... dont disappoint me phem. Roll Eyes

I have checked out those other threads Codsy.

Hence my questions, because from reading over them, it would seem the only outstanding solution there is to bitch, moan, argue and denigrate any who either offer opinion or point out flaws in those opinions already offered.

I don't need to offer up solutions on a little internet forum that, for the main part, is full of flamers and trolls it would seem. I do plenty of "solution focused" work in real life. [highlight]I just don't see the need to bang on about it here.[/highlight]

Sorry though if my simple questions are just too damn hard to give an honest answer to.

as I expected another aussie reply..."ts not me its you."..

every thread turns into a bitchfest... but if you were interested enough you would have at least noticed I was one of the few that tried to keep it on the straight and narrow.. but you chose to ignore that.. which is your prerogative of course.

no your simple questions werent too hard... I was just wondering if you HAD ANY ANSWERS...

the answer of course IS NO.. you dont.. thats fine...I didnt think you had actually as most of your comments on any thread is always in the negative...disparaging and condecending....

if you dont find the need to OFFER solutions to these appalling problems even when you have as you "claim "solutions...

shows what I am saying to be the truth.....

you are here to nit pick.. Roll Eyes

sure you dont do it a trolling flaming way... but none the less you still do it.. Angry

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Phemanderac

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Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy
Reply #43 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:58pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:02pm:

If you had half a brain, you would have read that I was asking you to explain and expand your position, but instead you chose the imbecile's approach of attack.

It can only be hoped that one day you can recognise the absolute irony in your comment here...

A forlorn hope perhaps.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:02pm:

When child abuse is treated as a worse crime than murder - as it often is for some people - claiming that religious education is child abuse is very close to the line of seeking to squash freedom of speech. It is however dead-centre in rejection of freedom of religion (another right).

Now, when you can demonstrate an intricate knowledge of PANOC (hell, even a baseline understanding for that matter) you might have some grounds for this comment.

As I have maintained, I am not calling for any bans - as such I am merely freely expressing my opinion. One which you arrogantly, disrespectfully and ignorantly keep re-framing to suit your cause...

So, I am not in anyway shape or form stopping you or anyone else from believing in myths and legends, hence no impact on your religious freedom.

Please stop being dishonest (again I ask in all futility).

mariacostel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:02pm:

But I will not ever bother again asking you to explain something you said. I will just take a page from your low-bred manual of debate and simply 'attack'.

PFFT... That is already exactly what you do.

Take a leaf out of being reasonable and honest book, that would help you far more.

You haven't asked me to explain what I have said at all. You have either selectively misquoted, wrongly extrapolated, or simply deliberately reframed that which I have said (and no doubt you have done it to others) and then demanded I explain that.

Now you are spitting your dummy out and going on the rabid attack because I have called you on exactly what you are doing.

Learn some self respect, because then the short leap to respecting others will not be quite so challenging.

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: Greens' new stolen generation policy Reply #44 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:59pm What ever Cods, I am not going to waste further time arguing with your inanity... Since you can't or won't articulate your much thought out solutions and actually have a reasonable discussion there is no point. Enjoy.
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