Australian Politics Forum - ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••

mothra

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #540 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 1:04pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 11:21am:

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 7:23am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 7^th, 2015 at 9:35pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Family violence is about power. More importantly, it is about a power imbalance.

This is why it is so dangerous and so insidious.

The partner that perpetrates violence usually has more power in the relationship and uses that power to violent ends.

Again with the "power" theories.
Power exists in all human interactions. It is not power itself that is bad, nor is a power imbalance bad - especially given that people have different talents and interests. It is behaviours that need examination. Undesirable behaviour is what should be the focus. Endless theorising about power won't correct domestic violence. Feminism's obsession with Foucault and other post-structuralist thinkers leads to a dead end.

Yep, and one of those key behaviours is "ABUSE" of power...

i.e. Exploiting a power imbalance to the point it causes harm to another person...

That's the exact behaviour being talked about when "power" is mentioned...

Could you seriously not work that out?

CW was merely responding to Mothra's actual post.

Why?

Because we know that you think its only ok for you to interpolate/extrapolate other people's posts.

Nope. Phem hit the nail on the head.

What are you rabbiting on about now?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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mothra

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #541 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 1:06pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 11:28am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 7^th, 2015 at 9:35pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Family violence is about power. More importantly, it is about a power imbalance.

This is why it is so dangerous and so insidious.

The partner that perpetrates violence usually has more power in the relationship and uses that power to violent ends.

Again with the "power" theories.
Power exists in all human interactions. It is not power itself that is bad, nor is a power imbalance bad - especially given that people have different talents and interests. It is behaviours that need examination. Undesirable behaviour is what should be the focus. Endless theorising about power won't correct domestic violence. Feminism's obsession with Foucault and other post-structuralist thinkers leads to a dead end.

Well I'm currently finding that power theorizing can waste a lot of time as it often side tracks the discussion into theoretical perspectives instead of practical outcomes.

LOL. Where'd you copy and paste that load of drivel from?

Who suggested that an understanding of the roots of family violence inhibits the practical application of strategies to preventing and intervening in family violence?

Surely and obviously, the converse is true.

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mariacostel

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #542 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:06pm

cods wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 12:39pm:

you know there was a time when

good manners
respect for others.
respect for others possessions
respect for age
opening doors for females.
allowing ladies to go first
being obedient
being seen and not heard

was all the normal part of every day life..

we dropped our standards somewhere along the way..

and look whats happened...

not a day goes by without some form of VIOLENCE infecting everything we stand for..

what will it be like in another 20 years. Sad

You are right. High Jackman is regarded as the nicest person in Hollywood and when asked why that was he said it was all to do with his parents and how he was raised. He was taught to be respectful, polite and obedient. He was disciplined and told what to do and how to do it. And the results speak for themselves. IN an industry replete with huge egos, terrible behaviour and immorality that would shock Sodom and Gomorrah, he remains a nice guy with a good relationship.

But he wouldn't be allowed to teach a class on good relationships because he hasn't done the course and got the tick from the thrice-divorced co-ordinator.

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mariacostel

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #543 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:07pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 12:58pm:

cods wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 12:39pm:

you know there was a time when

good manners
respect for others.
respect for others possessions
respect for age
opening doors for females.
allowing ladies to go first
being obedient
being seen and not heard

was all the normal part of every day life..

we dropped our standards somewhere along the way..

and look whats happened...

not a day goes by without some form of VIOLENCE infecting everything we stand for..

what will it be like in another 20 years. Sad

You sound like my mum Cods.

Cods could use a reminder in personal respect however. Respect for other's opinions is centre-stage in successful relationships.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 143958 Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #544 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:09pm cods wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 12:39pm: not a day goes by without some form of VIOLENCE infecting everything we stand for.. Is there more violence, or more reporting of violence?
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mariacostel

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #545 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:22pm

mothra wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 1:06pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 11:28am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 7^th, 2015 at 9:35pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Family violence is about power. More importantly, it is about a power imbalance.

This is why it is so dangerous and so insidious.

The partner that perpetrates violence usually has more power in the relationship and uses that power to violent ends.

Again with the "power" theories.
Power exists in all human interactions. It is not power itself that is bad, nor is a power imbalance bad - especially given that people have different talents and interests. It is behaviours that need examination. Undesirable behaviour is what should be the focus. Endless theorising about power won't correct domestic violence. Feminism's obsession with Foucault and other post-structuralist thinkers leads to a dead end.

Well I'm currently finding that power theorizing can waste a lot of time as it often side tracks the discussion into theoretical perspectives instead of practical outcomes.

LOL. Where'd you copy and paste that load of drivel from?

Who suggested that an understanding of the roots of family violence inhibits the practical application of strategies to preventing and intervening in family violence?

Surely and obviously, the converse is true.

Not to be too controversial, but theories may be wrong. Often it is simply better to find a methodology or program that actually works and use that and work out why later - if at all.

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ashlee

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #546 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:25pm

cods wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 12:39pm:

you know there was a time when

good manners
respect for others.
respect for others possessions
respect for age
opening doors for females.
allowing ladies to go first
being obedient
being seen and not heard

was all the normal part of every day life..

we dropped our standards somewhere along the way..

and look whats happened...

not a day goes by without some form of VIOLENCE infecting everything we stand for..

what will it be like in another 20 years. Sad

These are the values instilled in me and my siblings, they're also values we're instilling in our children along with courtesy, empathy and respect for each other. Just us, (Mum & Dad), saying please, thank you and excuse me to each other, as second nature, is already having an effect on our little ones. So many liberal parents these days forget, or don't care about the small niceties of human nature. I've got to add though, "seen and not heard" is very subjective in our home as we teach our children that what they say has value.

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mariacostel

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #547 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:35pm

ashlee wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:25pm:

cods wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 12:39pm:

you know there was a time when

good manners
respect for others.
respect for others possessions
respect for age
opening doors for females.
allowing ladies to go first
being obedient
being seen and not heard

was all the normal part of every day life..

we dropped our standards somewhere along the way..

and look whats happened...

not a day goes by without some form of VIOLENCE infecting everything we stand for..

what will it be like in another 20 years. Sad

These are the values instilled in me and my siblings, they're also values we're instilling in our children along with courtesy, empathy and respect for each other. Just us, (Mum & Dad), saying please, thank you and excuse me to each other, as second nature, is already having an effect on our little ones. So many liberal parents these days forget, or don't care about the small niceties of human nature. I've got to add though, "seen and not heard" is very subjective in our home as we teach our children that what they say has value.

Very true. The problem is when we think that just because what they say has value, that it is correct. Kids say a lot of things and part of parenting is to mold and correct them. It seems politically incorrect to do this with children now and yet, kids from disciplined homes where kids are taught respect have better life outcomes and typically are happier.

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Phemanderac

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #548 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:36pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:22pm:

Not to be too controversial, but theories may be wrong.

Nothing at all controversial about that, theories are often proved wrong.

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:22pm:

Often it is simply better to find a methodology or program that actually works and use that and work out why later - if at all.

However, that does not necessarily support this comment.

Firstly programs that "actually work" have a "theoretical basis" in how they were developed. Further to that, programs that work will generally be able to tell you why they work - which will often be, in part at least, the theoretical basis...

Then we can throw into the mix, evidence based programs, which, if for example you were mandated to do would be the only program options available to you... These programs, for the main part also work for most people, because there is the other issue with "programs that work" theory - not all programs work for all people, who would have thought diversity and individuality would have some problems attached to it eh?

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Phemanderac

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #549 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:40pm

I am curious, what exactly do you mean by,

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:35pm:

disciplined homes

If you wouldn't mind describe what that means to you...

Which of course leads to my next area of curiosity...

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:35pm:

kids are taught respect

What exactly do you mean by this, what process do these parents use to "teach" respect?

Please note, I am not saying you're wrong, I am just curious by what those things look like to you. After all, I think it absolutely imperative that we teach our kids all manner of behaviours, including respect. I also think discipline is important. What I am not sure about is if we envision the same things when we mention teaching kids and discipline...

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

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mariacostel

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #550 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:42pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:36pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:22pm:

Not to be too controversial, but theories may be wrong.

Nothing at all controversial about that, theories are often proved wrong.

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:22pm:

Often it is simply better to find a methodology or program that actually works and use that and work out why later - if at all.

However, that does not necessarily support this comment.

Firstly programs that "actually work" have a "theoretical basis" in how they were developed. Further to that, programs that work will generally be able to tell you why they work - which will often be, in part at least, the theoretical basis...

Then we can throw into the mix, evidence based programs, which, if for example you were mandated to do would be the only program options available to you... These programs, for the main part also work for most people, because there is the other issue with "programs that work" theory - not all programs work for all people, who would have thought diversity and individuality would have some problems attached to it eh?

The quoted bit is a bit ambiguous and a bit over-stated as well. It is common to do things that we know work while not understanding why. My nature is to want to know why, but my understanding is not necessary for something to work just the same.

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mariacostel

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #551 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:46pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:40pm:

I am curious, what exactly do you mean by,

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:35pm:

disciplined homes

If you wouldn't mind describe what that means to you...

Which of course leads to my next area of curiosity...

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:35pm:

kids are taught respect

What exactly do you mean by this, what process do these parents use to "teach" respect?

Please note, I am not saying you're wrong, I am just curious by what those things look like to you. After all, I think it absolutely imperative that we teach our kids all manner of behaviours, including respect. I also think discipline is important. What I am not sure about is if we envision the same things when we mention teaching kids and discipline...

This kind of response will bring out the loons and especially those that never had kids. I have no problems with the concept or application of discipline. It makes kids stronger, healthier and more capable of facing the world. It makes the understand boundaries and limitations. And obviously the question you really want to answer is 'do I support smacking'? Yes I do and so do the majority of parents who raised kids well.

Teaching respect is taught my emulation. Parents treat each other and the family with respect and most of the message gets through. Often it still needs to be discussed why you do this, that and the other thing for kids, but the principles of right and wrong, politeness and respect are taught practically rather than via lecturing. And yes, sometimes a disrespectful kids gets a smack.

Did I cover it?

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cods

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #552 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:53pm

ashlee wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:25pm:

These are the values instilled in me and my siblings, they're also values we're instilling in our children along with courtesy, empathy and respect for each other. Just us, (Mum & Dad), saying please, thank you and excuse me to each other, as second nature, is already having an effect on our little ones. So many liberal parents these days forget, or don't care about the small niceties of human nature. I've got to add though, "seen and not heard" is very subjective in our home as we teach our children that what they say has value.

ashlee todays parenting is done via. the TV set.. I find mothers are prone to propping them up in front of the set.. and thats it....in fact little ones come into my house and demand its on which is fine...but I used to sit and sing all the songs.. I can still do it it I am pushed..lol..children are left to find their own way far too much... parenting today is hard.. dont get me wrong...both working usually full time something has to go.. the kids spend most of their ,lives in some for of sc hool or childcare.. you are at the mercy of the educator... who may or may not have the same values as yourself..... its a very tough world..

however that doesnt excuse what going on and getting worse... even though greg thinks its the reporting that could be the game changer.. I dont think so.. we have had huge advancements on the media even TV 24/7 for years now....the violence is getting worse.....

my mum and dad were brought up in a era when fighting on a Friday night was the norm..... outside pubs which were on almost every corner in their day.. yet they never heard of anyone being put in a coma....

nor was anyone killed because of jealousy and they all lived in poverty... kids played in the streets day and night..... yet no one gave predators a thought.....

what does that tell you?...

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Phemanderac

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #553 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:57pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:46pm:

This kind of response will bring out the loons and especially those that never had kids. I have no problems with the concept or application of discipline. It makes kids stronger, healthier and more capable of facing the world. It makes the understand boundaries and limitations. And obviously the question you really want to answer is 'do I support smacking'? Yes I do and so do the majority of parents who raised kids well.

OK so discipline = punishment...

Meh, not up to me to decide right or wrong, but I don't agree with that meaning of discipline...

Discipline is to teach I think...

As to smacking, it happens, however, if that is the only tool you use (which does not seem to be the case in reading your response) it has problems and won't get the desired outcome, consistently.

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:46pm:

Teaching respect is taught my emulation. Parents treat each other and the family with respect and most of the message gets through. Often it still needs to be discussed why you do this, that and the other thing for kids, but the principles of right and wrong, politeness and respect are taught practically rather than via lecturing. And yes, sometimes a disrespectful kids gets a smack.

Awesome, so, in a nutshell, mostly by role modelling.

There are very effective alternatives to a smack too, just by the way. But role modelling, the best teacher of our kids...

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:46pm:

Did I cover it?

To be honest, I think you know you did, but thank you (sincerely) for your answer.

Like I said, it's not up to me to say that's right or wrong, hell, they're your kids, it's your life etc etc...But I am ok with not totally agreeing too.

So, thanks again for your answer.

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

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Phemanderac

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #554 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 5:02pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:42pm:

The quoted bit is a bit ambiguous and a bit over-stated as well.

So then, simply put, you won't find a course that does not have a theoretical basis to it...

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:42pm:

It is common to do things that we know work while not understanding why. My nature is to want to know why, but my understanding is not necessary for something to work just the same.

Sure. However, when we speak specifically of courses, particularly in the field of relationships, violence and in particular relationship violence, that is not ever the case...

As such, this is not an area where "find a course that works for you etc...." will occur. ALL of these courses have a theoretical basis, therefore, that will explain very clearly why the concepts, practices and skills taught will work...

Like I said though, even the most thoroughly researched and deeply evidence based course will NOT work for every single individual. On the other side of that though, every individual will be able to find something that works for them if they're committed to the search...

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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